Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[Boris Zubov]

Somebody wanted to trade Mika for him which is one of those moves that like, just completely ignores the loss of 40 or so points. I tend to not like those moves.

Acquiring him at all with his salary hit is laughable. Hence the LOL.

 

[Tawnos]

That's your take on it. My take on it is that McDonagh was told he was going to be moved and, if he didn't like it, he'd be waived if he didn't waive his no trade clause

Stamkos wanted to stay in TB and it didn't happen. The players didn't collapse
Marchand agreed to move, as did Trouba, and those players didn't collapse.

Huh? Yes, what you said about those guys is what happened. I said the same thing. My point is that they were all told up front what was happening. The were treated like human beings and adults.

Again, your take. My take on this is that Goodrow was told there was a deal with San Jose to be made and he declined to waive so the Rangers waived him

Trouba was extended the courtesy of providing his 15 team list after the framework of a deal with Detroit was in place and he, and his agent, cockblocked the Rangers into not being able to do ANYTHING. After that, he eventually did agree to a trade and... the players still sucked.

Rantannen is best buddies with McKinnon and was completely blindsided by his trade. Did McKinnon & Company take all their toys and go home or do they look like a Stanley Cup contender? Is Sakic doing things "courteously"?

Goodrow did decline a trade. At no point did Drury say to him "thanks for your work, but this is what I need to do. If you won't accept a trade I have to put you on waivers." He just did it without talking to the guy. Trouba wasn't "extended the courtesy" of providing his 15 team list. Trouba was contractually obligated to provide that list on July 1. Like I said, how Trouba handled his reaction to that was still a problem, but he was 100% provoked into that reaction.

Yes, Rantanen was blindsided by the trade, but he shouldn't have been. From the beginning of the season, there was speculation the Avs would trade him if they couldn't get a contract done... and guys who are in the midst of contract negotiations that aren't going well should know, on some level, they could be traded. That's a normal part of the business and it's happened plenty of times... Sather did it with Callahan just as one example. The way Drury went about things in June was not normal business.

It all just a giant excuse for not putting for the effort and diligence required to win hockey games. Mika and co. are too comfortable and, obviously, don't care about winning enough. They aren't owed explanations by management for trying to make the team better. Drury tried the "nice" approach with Trouba and it bit him in the ass. Everyone is out for themselves.What else is new?

Drury did NOT try the nice approach with Trouba. You're absolutely wrong about that. This isn't a "take"... it's a fact, and it's been covered to death. And like I said, the players are responsible for not getting their shit together. I'm not excusing how they played. I'm saying that the origin of the issues lies with Drury. They could've pulled together and gotten over it. They could've said "oh, the GM doesn't think we're good enough? Let's prove him wrong." That doesn't mean Drury didn't f*** up.

 

[Riche16]

I don't know - I look around the league and various GM's "treatment" of players etc...

Stamkos wanted to stay in TB and they said "No, we're good". Team scores the most goals in the league and breezes into the playoffs. And those players (Hedman, etc...) have played as long or longer as Mika and Kreider.

Carolina loses Necas. And Rantannen. No problem.

McDonagh returns to the team that jettisoned him into the sun. No problem.

Marchand leaves his Boston legacy behind and moves on. I'm not reading about the players in Boston quitting because he was traded.

And, honestly, the Rangers did what was best for the Rangers. They got rid of a 3.6M contract that had four goals last year and was just as bad this year. Trouba morphed into an overpaid 8.5M 3rd pair defenseman. Whatever was lost "in the room" should've been covered by the vets "in the room" with letters on their chests instead of moping around for the balance of the season.

I've never seen anything like this in professional sports. Ridiculous.

Nailed it.

 

[Homelander]

So even Uncle Larry is going against his buddy Drury? Who's the only Drury supporter left? Oh yeah, the one who matters: Dolan.

 

[Tawnos]

Mika had 62 this year.

That's interesting, Puckpedia is only updated through game 80 for him.

 

[zlev]

So even Uncle Larry is going against his buddy Drury? Who's the only Drury supporter left? Oh yeah, the one who matters: Dolan.

and McRanger92

 

[Greschner4]

Anybody here certain they didn't quit on Gallant, but instead quit on Drury? Because I'm not.

Both Gallant and Laviolette basically pasted, "Fire me, I don't give a shit" signs on their back as the end was nigh. In retrospect, Gallant's spewing of the word "talent??" in his postgame Game 7 Devils press conference was actually low-key epic and a sharp passive-aggressive dig on Drury.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Lol, at all these Rantanen comparisons, the f***er and his agent came out and said they wanted 14m a year. Good, go enjoy Dallas bitch.

 

[bhamill]

Somebody wanted to trade Mika for him which is one of those moves that like, just completely ignores the loss of 40 or so points. I tend to not like those moves.

Not advocating for it, but its more like 35 points, AND a savings of 3million next two years and then the whole 8.5 million would be clear, while Mika would cost us that 8.5 for two additional seasons after we'd be clear of Anderson... and who knows what he will be going forward.

 

[kovazub94]

We got here 50 pages of who's at fault and why Lavi and Housley were the only ones taking a fall.

Seriously I look at most posts and "everyone has to go". Do you not understand that this level or roster turnover is impossible in the NHL with maybe an exception of teams diving into rebuild?!?! Take @RangerBoy posts over the last few days: Zibanejad has to go, Kreider has to go, Panarin has to go, Fox has to go, K Miller has to go,... Is this serious? Yes these players individually and maybe collectively are at fault at what transpired this season but did we miss how difficult it's been, what the on ice impact would be and how long it took just to move Goodrow, Trouba, Kakko and Chytil who collectively nowhere near the former group???? Just unrealistic if the starting expectation for Drury to accomplish this during the upcoming offseason.

The criticism of Drury from the other group is also overstated. Did Rantanen get a heads-up that he is moved and where from Colorado FO? Coming from his mouth it wasn't the case. Did the rest of the team was made known? How about the TDL moves in Ottawa? McD situation in Tampa? Did the rest of the team was made known in advance that McD was being traded? Drury is not cozy type for sure but he's been doing his job and other than what we can call "soft" issues - I see only one questionable move - bringing in Soucy (but even that can be partially justified as a potential hedge in K Miller negotiations but we shall see).

Overall, I think it's been plenty of time to date for ranting so I'd hope we can switch to somewhat more realistic discussions. We know that the team is not going into another rebuild at this point. We can pretty much be assured that there will be a rebound in performance. If there will be significant roster moves - I doubt it could be beyond two at most - one at forward and one on D.

 

[McRanger92]

He also read that here. I'm half kidding. Pretty sure someone brought up his name recently. LOL.

Twas I. I just want to see this place burn down when it happens lol

 

[Machinehead]

Not advocating for it

Let's stop right here

 

[Levitate]

He's had one pretty good season on his extension, not several. He's played 3 seasons.. 91 pts, 72 pts, and 58 pts. And even in the 91 point season, he'd already started showing signs of concern. That was the year he really started playing much more perimeter.

I wanted to re-sign him, but not for 8 years. 5 or 6? Sure.

I meant after signing it, not necessary on it. he signed it on Oct 2021 and was a PPG player that season. Then the 91 point season. More just a "he didn't totally just give up as soon as his money was guaranteed" kind of thing.
But yeah, his game did start to slip. I honestly think that Kreider 50 goal season kinda broke Zibanejad's brain because instead of being a sniper himself who could dish the puck and make plays with his feet, he started being Kreider's wingman and trying to feed him more goals.

Most likely, the main difference between Drury's dumping of Goodrow/Trouba and the other dumpings (McD, Stamkos, etc.), is that Drury already had the reputation as a douche. It's one thing to be "just businessed" by an otherwise decent GM with some level of people skills. But when a guy you already don't like does it, that's something different altogether.

The message in all of this is that the players can't stand Drury and don't want to bust ass for him. He's easily replaceable, so just ... replace him. He hasn't created an atmosphere where the talent wants to perform, and that's a huge piece of his job description.

So just move on. It's not as though his personnel skills are irreplaceable or anything. Frankly, those suck, too.

Call me crazy, but if you can't judge hockey talent and can't manage hockey talent, and hockey talent pretty much can't stand you and doesn't want to work hard for you, NHL GM probably isn't the job for you.

IMO this group of players had already shown they were a difficult bunch before this all went down. "Difficult to coach". That was true with Quinn, and Gallant, and Laviolette. The vets didn't want Laviolette.

 

[Tawnos]

Homie, you keep changing your story. Yes, SJ was on his list of teams he couldn't be traded to. So to get around that, because he sucks at his job, Drury simply waived Goodrow and oh, what do you know San Jose had first dibs.

Goodrow definitely did decline a trade, but I don't remember it being confirmed anywhere that the trade he declined was to San Jose. I don't think it was reported where that trade was to at all.

 

[haohmaru]

Homie, you keep changing your story. Yes, SJ was on his list of teams he couldn't be traded to. So to get around that, because he sucks at his job, Drury simply waived Goodrow and oh, what do you know San Jose had first dibs.

You're telling the players side of the story. Nobody has heard Drury's side. There's the players side, the GM's side and the truth. Drury might've hinted at it, talked to his agent about it, whatever. You or I will never know.

None of this changes the fact that it was the right move, feelings or not.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Anybody here certain they didn't quit on Gallant, but instead quit on Drury? Because I'm not.

Both Gallant and Laviolette basically pasted, "Fire me, I don't give a shit" signs on their back as the end was nigh. In retrospect, Gallant's spewing of the word "talent??" in his postgame Game 7 Devils press conference was actually low-key epic and a sharp passive-aggressive dig on Drury.

People throw the word quit out here much too much. They scored 15 goals in three games and like 6 goals in the other 4. Did they alternate between quitting and trying that series? Like tonight, we try. Tomorrow not so much? What about the screaming match that went down in the coach's office after game 5 I think? Was Mika and Kreider in there screaming too?

 

[bhamill]

Let's stop right here

Hahahaha. Why? I like to see both sides of an argument whether I agree or not. And let's face it: its a message board, its all just talk.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

You're telling the players side of the story. Nobody has heard Drury's side. There's the players side, the GM's side and the truth. Drury might've hinted at it, talked to his agent about it, whatever. You or I will never know.

None of this changes the fact that it was the right move, feelings or not.

No man, those are the facts. There was no contact between Goodrow and Drury. Dude, he's not gonna give you lifetime free pizza and fountain drinks at Colony.

 

[Vito Andolini]

There's a lot of lack of understanding that two things can be true at once. Hell, even three things can be true at once!

Drury f***ed up.
Laviolette f***ed up.
Most of the players on the team f***ed up.

So far, Laviolette is the only one whose faced any consequences for it, and I do find that frustrating. Zibanejad was the only player on breakup day who was even willing to hint that it wasn't just the players that screwed up this year. He was the only one willing to express anything remotely close to the full truth. Everyone else was just player-speak. And while I totally understand that people don't want to hear it from him after the year he had, at least it wasn't just the same old platitudes that we got from Fox and Trocheck.

Agreed.

The reality is that coaches usually get the brunt of the blame because its relatively easy to change a coach. Which makes it more frustrating to me that they waited until the year ended to dismiss Lavi.

Putting the player personnel mgmt aside, Drury failed us by refusing to dismiss Lavi while the season was still salvageable. It seems like we wasted a year of our limited contention window with a coach that obviously had no solutions to refocus the team.

 

[zlev]

Gallant was pissed at Drury because of the stupid roster he constructed for him, there's nothing more to it than that. That team straight up wasn't good enough to beat the Devils.

 

[haohmaru]

Drury did NOT try the nice approach with Trouba. You're absolutely wrong about that. This isn't a "take"... it's a fact, and it's been covered to death. And like I said, the players are responsible for not getting their shit together. I'm not excusing how they played. I'm saying that the origin of the issues lies with Drury. They could've pulled together and gotten over it. They could've said "oh, the GM doesn't think we're good enough? Let's prove him wrong." That doesn't mean Drury didn't f*** up.

"Whether he actually invoked the no-trade clause to nix that deal has become a point of contention months later, but Trouba did make it clear he didn’t want to leave New York. Things devolved from there, as the Rangers continued to pursue trade offers while making it known to Trouba that he’d be placed on NHL waivers if he didn’t agree to any trades."

 

[Tawnos]

"Whether he actually invoked the no-trade clause to nix that deal has become a point of contention months later, but Trouba did make it clear he didn’t want to leave New York. Things devolved from there, as the Rangers continued to pursue trade offers while making it known to Trouba that he’d be placed on NHL waivers if he didn’t agree to any trades."

And? All of that happened after what I'm talking about.

 

[kovazub94]

But it's a bit of a flawed premise. I don't think they were looking to ship out Chytil. They were looking to acquire JT Miller and Chytil happened to come up. Then he happened to have another injury.

If they weren't pursuing JT, I don't think they trade Chytil at all.

IMO this is a flawed premise.

 

[Riche16]

-Does it absolve Trouba of the way he handled what came next? Of course not. He's allowed to use whatever methods his contract allows to prevent a move.

In other words, the original sins that lead to this season were Drury's. The rest of it? That's on the players.

So Trouba can use whatever method his contract allows but Drury isn't?

Same contract for Trouba AND Drury

Same one for Goodrow AND Drury

 

[kovazub94]

Well, I wouldn't have resigned Igor to that contract and I wouldn't have brought in JT Miller. There's your money.

However you feel about these moves (we can disagree) let's remember that these things happen during season, not in offseason.