Roster Building Thread : Part XVIII ( TDL is March 7th)

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Attempting to play when he should be sitting is heroic and the antithesis of being a bum.

What a hero! Without his heroic acts on the ice, where o where would this team be!?

 

[haohmaru]

What a hero! Without his heroic acts on the ice, where o where would this team be!?

In a playoff spot?

 

[NickyFotiu]

1. Same concept, though. Bringing in a high-priced veteran to build around instead of building from the draft. We managed to pull some very important players out of the draft as well at that time (Richter, Leetch, Zubov, Kovalev), which is the only reason the Messier acquisition worked.

2. No, Bread didn't work. Outside of last year, his 2 best years were his first two with the Rangers, both of which ended without playoffs. In the years we have made the playoffs, his playoff performances haven't been worth 11.6 mil. We supposedly went through a rebuild, but somehow 7 years later, msot of our top offensive players are all 31+ years old. Yes, we made it to 2 ECFs. We had the lead in both of them and then fell apart because as a whole, this team was poorly constructed. And now we are staring at a major retool if not a total rebuild.

3. No, we shouldn't close our minds to UFAs in the future. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't be constructing the core of our team from UFAs and trades for high-priced vets. When a team goes through a rebuild and not one of the players we drafted is a top contributor on the team, that's a problem.

I think teams have to build via all 3 areas (draft, trades, and FA). I think it would be short sighted to ignore any area that you can help develop your team. No one method should be used exclusively nor ignored imo. Also no 1 player is going to be fully responsible for a team making the playoffs or winning a cup. I agree about building through the draft but if you can bring in talent via trades or FA you do so. McD was a trade. Zooks was a FA. Brassard was a trade. Gabs was a FA. Sometimes the FA we sign lead to better guys or draft picks via trades. Bottom line is we lack talent so we need to be open to bringing it in everywhere.

 

[bl02]

This team is doing everything possible to mess up another young player in Cuylle. Thankfully Cuylle seems to have the mental and physical ability to overcome unlike Kakko/Lafreniere.

It's a joke this kid hasn't been able to play pp1 and be one of the 6 on the ice with empty net with over 2 min left in the game. Instead the corpses of Kreider and 93 are on the ice for 150 seconds with the empty net.

 

[GAGLine]

I don't think the organization is going to ask Panarin to waive unless next season starts with them struggling. It's hard to see them getting back anything that makes them head into next season with a mindset that they can still compete.

Kakko, Lindgren, Smith, Trouba, Goodrow - Despite them playing like garbage here, (for the most part) that's still a lot to lose in 1 season. There's a lot of RFA's and of course a lot of signs pointing to Kreider being gone. I'm just not sure the organization is ready to take that step backwards and move on from Panarin without next starting starting off on the wrong foot. If you trade Panarin, you better make sure that through trades/signs, you're getting a solid top 6 in place, or it's going to be a really bad team, worse than this current team. Sometimes you have to move backwards to move forward, but there's not a lot of promising players in our pipeline, and magics beans are just magic beans. This fanbase blows up after a Miller turnover. I'm not sure they can handle being a far worse team. Buffalo has been trying to build from the draft for 10+ years. Nothing is a guarantee.

I can handle being worse in terms of wins and losses as long as the play on the ice shows we are moving in the right direction. Right now, we are very much going in the wrong direction.

Regarding a Panarin trade, we don't have to replace his points 1 for 1 to avoid taking a step backward. There are other factors than just scoring that determine wins and losses. Maybe we trade him for another player who doesn't score as much but is better defensively and on the forecheck. Maybe we spend more time in the offensive zone as a result. Maybe that player scores more in a larger role with us than he did for his former team. Maybe that player is considerably cheaper than Panarin, allowing us to upgrade at other positions.

The alternatives to trading Panarin are letting him walk or re-signing him to a significant contract. He'll be nearly 35 when his next contract starts, yet he will still command big money. And then there's the term to consider. Will he want 4 or 5 years, or would he take a 1- or 2-year deal?

If we start out poorly next year, the odds that he gets traded go up, but I don't want to leave it up to that. If we are on the bubble, they may not pull the trigger in an effort to get into the playoffs. I'd rather be more forward thinking, more proactive in reshaping the roster. Panarin is a valuable asset. With a full year left on his contract, he has significant value, especially if we retain. It is in our long-term interests to cash in on that value.

 

[McRanger92]

The thing about The Rebuild was that everyone was so intoxicated by whether they could, so no one stopped and considered whether they should. We wouldve been better off firing AV, hiring an actual coach and just not traded our first round picks for a few years.

 

[Fitzy]

One big concern I have is that if we keep this year's draft pick due to position and then suck next year, we potentially lose out on a big talent.

The stakes are going to be extra high next season to turn this around. The MSG propaganda machine is going to be comparing this season to missing the playoffs in 93, but you actually have to go out and do more.

 

[TGWL]

We sped up the rebuild, almost like we didn't have one, but I'm not sure we would have been better off had we not made those trades and signings. In 2021, we drafted 16th. In order to really get a good player here we would have had to draft inside the top 9. It was a shorten schedule where we lost 5 out of our last 6 games. Some nice players in that top 9, but we would have probably gotten Kent Johnson and fans would be complaining about that. When an Adam Fox or Panarin comes a long, you have to take it.

In 2022, would fans rather have a Marco Kasper, Kevin Korchinski or Matthew Savoie, over the ECF run?

In 2023, there's quite a few players I'd rather have Gabe Perreault over.

Unless you're getting top 4-5 picks every year, rebuilding through the draft is hard and more about grabbing those couple of pieces that should be your core players, and if you're lucky, a franchise player. Well Kakko didn't work out here. Lafreniere refuses to skate. Chytil had awareness issues. Kravstov is so good he's bad. Lias Andersson couldn't see a wire. Othmann has been a call-up plug. We didn't get the franchise player from the draft, and the core players didn't work out. I don't think the organization or the fanbase could take going from the letter to now with tanking, bad teams, where our future might look a little bit better through the next 5+ years.

 

[GAGLine]

I think teams have to build via all 3 areas (draft, trades, and FA). I think it would be short sighted to ignore any area that you can help develop your team. No one method should be used exclusively nor ignored imo. Also no 1 player is going to be fully responsible for a team making the playoffs or winning a cup. I agree about building through the draft but if you can bring in talent via trades or FA you do so. McD was a trade. Zooks was a FA. Brassard was a trade. Gabs was a FA. Sometimes the FA we sign lead to better guys or draft picks via trades. Bottom line is we lack talent so we need to be open to bringing it in everywhere.

McDonagh was a trade of a vet (Gomez) for a prospect. Zooks was undrafted. Brassard was another trade of a vet, whom we signed as a UFA (Gaborik). In every case, the team got younger.

Again, I'm not saying we should never add players via free agency or trade, but we have leaned too heavily on those options for pretty much the entirety of the last 50 years. It's insane to me that a team can announce a rebuild, and 7 years later, have a team that is almost entirely led by players who are 31 or older. That is a clear indication that the rebuild failed. And of course, it's going to fail when you only pay lip service to it, effectively ending the rebuild after 1 year.

We don't necessarily need to go full rebuild at this point. We do have some good pieces. But we need to get younger. We need to jettison guys like Mika, Kreider and Panarin. If that results in some short-term pain, so be it. I want to win a cup. No, we don't have to win a cup every year. That's the kind of thinking that keeps us from winning. We have to build toward a cup. We have to have a multi-year plan for achieving it, rather than a reactionary approach to team building.

I said it a thousand times when Sather was running the team, and it's still true today. If your plan is for only one year, then you don't have a plan.

 

[effen]

The same Fox posts from the same two people every day.

We heard you.

You're a little late calling out brainless repetitive posts that don't add anything after 275,000 anti-Trouba and Lindgren posts for the last few years.

 

[McRanger92]

What a ridiculous assertion. So tired of the Panarin slander when he’s the only f***ing reason this team has even been passably watchable. This team without Panarin would be right there with Buffalo, and in some ways this fan base would have deserved that fate. Guy has given the Rangers 2 MVP level seasons, is the best producer in team history on a PPG basis, paced for 100+ points every season as a Ranger up until this season. Also he doesn’t care about being a Ranger? Based on what? It’s bullshit.

Is it time for him to go? Probably, because he’s going to be 34 and this team sucks and should rebuild but it’s not on him.

Igor is the only reason the team is passable. Idk how people can watch Panarin play and feel any enjoyment. he doesn't do anything a franchise player should. Does he play with pace? No. Does he play in the middle of the ice? No. does he turn the puck over constantly at the blueline? Yes! Does he adjust his game to raise the level of his teammates? No. Is he accountable with the media despite wearing an A? No. Does he show up when it matters most? No.

He has been a top 5 highest paid player in the league his entire Rangers tenure. He's a mercenary and plays like one. We will be much better off when he is gone. The way he plays has infected everyone he is on the ice with. I guarantee during his tenure Mika, Kreider, Fox, Lafreniere and Trocheck are the players on the ice with him the most. they all do the same shit.

 

[SA16]

Igor is the only reason the team is passable. Idk how people can watch Panarin play and feel any enjoyment. he doesn't do anything a franchise player should. Does he play with pace? No. Does he play in the middle of the ice? No. does he turn the puck over constantly at the blueline? Yes! Does he adjust his game to raise the level of his teammates? No. Is he accountable with the media despite wearing an A? No. Does he show up when it matters most? No.

He has been a top 5 highest paid player in the league his entire Rangers tenure. He's a mercenary and plays like one. We will be much better off when he is gone. The way he plays has infected everyone he is on the ice with. I guarantee during his tenure Mika, Kreider, Fox, Lafreniere and Trocheck are the players on the ice with him the most. they all do the same shit.

Is he the Rangers all time points/game leader? Yes

 

[IDvsEGO]

I don't think the organization is going to ask Panarin to waive unless next season starts with them struggling. It's hard to see them getting back anything that makes them head into next season with a mindset that they can still compete.

Kakko, Lindgren, Smith, Trouba, Goodrow - Despite them playing like garbage here, (for the most part) that's still a lot to lose in 1 season. There's a lot of RFA's and of course a lot of signs pointing to Kreider being gone. I'm just not sure the organization is ready to take that step backwards and move on from Panarin without next starting starting off on the wrong foot. If you trade Panarin, you better make sure through trades/signs, you're getting a solid top 6 in place, or it's going to be a really bad team, worse than this current team. Sometimes you have to move backwards to move forward, but there's not a lot of promising players in our pipeline, and magics beans are just magic beans.

This fanbase blows up after a Miller turnover. I'm not sure they can handle being a far worse team. Buffalo has been trying to build from the draft for 10+ years. Nothing is a guarantee.

Assuming you move
Mika / ck/ panarin this offseason.
We’re likely a top 10 pick next year.

We have perreault likely coming in at the end of the year.
We have a potential top 10’pick.

We also then have the assets from those 3 deals.

We would already have
a top 6 in miller
At least 2 top 6 wings in laf and cuylle, add perreault and you have 3/4 spots locked up
A top pair rhd / need a top pair lhd
The bottom 4 of our defense doesn’t look bad right now.

An all star goalie.

We need a 1c to slot miller down, a top 6 wing, and then that’s really it.

A top 10 pick fills one hole, and ufa might fill the other 2. And we’d have the cap space to do it.

Seriously this isn’t that difficult to see.

A one year bounce for a much cleaner reset.

 

[McRanger92]

Is he the Rangers all time points/game leader? Yes

Good we can retire his number if that matters to people

 

[Machinehead]

You're a little late calling out brainless repetitive posts that don't add anything after 275,000 anti-Trouba and Lindgren posts for the last few years.

There's no comparison there.

The Rangers playing some of the worst regulars in the league every night is alarming.

Them playing Adam Fox in the role he's in (arguably, he doesn't play that much for a #1) is a massive problem?

 

[Mugless]

Four years in for Drury and the team is floundering.

 

[bernmeister]

View attachment 995441

there's a dif betw. those who pretend, and those who cut the mustard by showing the work, and that work checks out

stop w/hypocrisy
you claim to know best and do not offer prevailing arguments
that is why instead of calling me out on merit, you go w/the above.
again
stop the bs
I will call it out

 

[bernmeister]

What a hero! Without his heroic acts on the ice, where o where would this team be!?

arguably, even worse off

 

[IDvsEGO]

Four years in for Drury and the team is floundering.

You mean with the core that was signed and drafted by gorton?

 

[RangersFan1994]

Four years in for Drury and the team is floundering.

He was awful Ranger as a player and just as bad as GM. He has to go.

 

[Mike in Houston]

The level of vitriol Chris Kreider gets is insane. But nobody hates the Rangers more than Ranger fans.

Franchise ranks (Thanks to HockeyStatMiner)

Regular Season:
#3 All-time goals
#4 ES goals
#1 PPG
#4 SHG
#2 GWG

Playoffs:
#1 All-time goals
#1 PPG
#1 SHG
#1 GWG

But youse guys will find a way to marginalize him and rationalize that these rankings don't mean anything. You'll say he's the reason the team "quit" because Drury put him in the memo. Yet there has never been any real evidence of it. Vince says one thing about Chris and a poor relationship with the front office and yet it's never been corroborated. And he has never had a track record of this behavior, but that doesn't matter. You're all convinced. If he was really the malcontent you all claim him to be, then why is he still here? Don't give me the garbage of the NTC. We see how those get circumvented all the time.

Chris may not be here next season. It isn't too often a player gets to start and finish his career with the same team. But as far as I'm concerned and until proven otherwise, Chris Kreider has been the consummate NY Ranger in my opinion. I hope to see his number retired, I think it will, and I hope I'm there to see it.

 

[RangersFan1994]

You mean with the core that was signed and drafted by gorton?

And Drury is the one that gave them chance after chance.. he should have moved those players right when he became GM but decided to keep them

 

[haohmaru]

there's a dif betw. those who pretend, and those who cut the mustard by showing the work, and that work checks out

stop w/hypocrisy
you claim to know best and do not offer prevailing arguments
that is why instead of calling me out on merit, you go w/the above.
again
stop the bs
I will call it out

Show me the work then Bern. All I see are proposals in a vacuum and a ton of them are downright nuts or unrealistic. You can't prove a hypothetical and that's most of what your "work" is.

Other than blind CK love, that is.

 

[haohmaru]

The level of vitriol Chris Kreider gets is insane. But nobody hates the Rangers more than Ranger fans.

Franchise ranks (Thanks to HockeyStatMiner)

Regular Season:
#3 All-time goals
#4 ES goals
#1 PPG
#4 SHG
#2 GWG

Playoffs:
#1 All-time goals
#1 PPG
#1 SHG
#1 GWG

But youse guys will find a way to marginalize him and rationalize that these rankings don't mean anything. You'll say he's the reason the team "quit" because Drury put him in the memo. Yet there has never been any real evidence of it. Vince says one thing about Chris and a poor relationship with the front office and yet it's never been corroborated. And he has never had a track record of this behavior, but that doesn't matter. You're all convinced. If he was really the malcontent you all claim him to be, then why is he still here? Don't give me the garbage of the NTC. We see how those get circumvented all the time.

Chris may not be here next season. It isn't too often a player gets to start and finish his career with the same team. But as far as I'm concerned and until proven otherwise, Chris Kreider has been the consummate NY Ranger in my opinion. I hope to see his number retired, I think it will, and I hope I'm there to see it.

All of this is as meaningless today as Messier was in his 40's. Nobody, that I'm seeing, is shitting on his Rangers career. This year, though? People are entitled to the opinion that the Rangers should move on while they can and get something back for him.

 

[Mike in Houston]

All of this is as meaningless today as Messier was in his 40's. Nobody, that I'm seeing, is shitting on his Rangers career. This year, though? People are entitled to the opinion that the Rangers should move on while they can and get something back for him.

Absolutely. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me.