Roster Building Thread : Part XVIII ( TDL is March 7th)

Ready for the Panarin era to be over.

Panarin Error. John Davidson was a good announcer but he did irreparable harm to the culture of the team becoming infatuated with Panarin and Trouba, 2 mercenary losers who could give a shit about the rangers and their fans. Gorton was not much better. half the guys we traded would still be the best player on the Rangers right now all these years later. Wouldve rather built around Zucc than panarin. At least he was our guy.
 
Kreider is a f***ing bum and should just be benched for the season. LITR him after it is over and let him retire away. What a waste to end his career. Completely uninterested hockey from him. Now we know why his name was right next to Trouba's in trade memo.
Sorry no, false characterization as to his character, needs to be repudiated.
Attempting to play when he should be sitting is heroic and the antithesis of being a bum. It is unclear as to who is pushing him to play -- ck, coach, drury, all of them -- and that is a separate item.
We need for him to shut down and reassess IF his back does not merely improve but does so to a pt where he can demonstrate ability at classic high level.
If he can't cut that mustard then, then I expect him to do a Gehrig and retire.


Kreider ruined his legacy this year. Can’t wait to get this bum out of here. He can take his pal Mika too. Bunch of overpaid losers.
See above, again not a bum, capitulate to the reality that he's injured and apply that in context.
"Judge not lest ye be judged. For you will be judged by the very standards you apply"

And that man is....


bernmeister!


Or. OR. He’s unbelievably hampered by an injury and has been all year. As opposed to one of our most heart and soul players suddenly deciding not to try anymore for no explicable reason.
EXACTLY this


The "whole point" is that "trading at peak" does not always result in something good because there's always speculation involved with young players and/or draft picks and it doesn't always work out.

Don't tell me what my own point is. I think I know that better than you do.
I am not telling you your pt, I was speaking to what was the actual pt discussed. Let's not get snarky here b'c I give as good as I get and then some.

As to the merits of the argument, THIS is the bottom line.
ANY trade has risk, b'c nothing is written in stone, unexpected surprises can and do happen.

That said, AGAIN, YOU FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE ongoing and inescapable reality of hard salary cap requires constant sell high of assets for quality youth, ideally at an exchange of more than $1 value received for $1 surrendered.
This is especially so when a team, like ours, is behind the 8 ball and must take chances to reverse where we are at.

Peeps have to open their eyes and speak the truth.
No one is going to trade established superior value for established inferior value, which is what many are demanding here when they realize it or not.
But youth brings a wild card; potential v actual, which may entertain different projections and estimates, hence room to negotiate and come out ahead

Honestly, "Mike" was really the only Ranger last night that looked engaged and working every shift. He had two checks on the same shift, stickhandler through two guys and got off a one-handed shot, and was hustling every shift. If the other 17 were playing like him the game would've been different.
Mika did not do enuf every shift, but he was better then many last nite.
Rempe showed more hustle
 
The point isn’t what he was on Tampa. Really. The point was the Rangers trading a 1D at his peak and getting next to nothing for it in the long run. I don’t give a f*** who was on TB or what his impact was there. Not sure why you do.
1. If as I accurately explained above this is the correct approach, does not mean you abandon and instead adopt the wrong approach just because of a misfire. Some deals are hits, some are misses. But youth for age, no other factors in the equation, is never a good idea.

2. As noted, they got Hajek who looked like an All Star for 4 games before damaging his shoulder, shockingly, irreparably. That is truly unfortunate, but it was after the fact as to that trade having been a done deal; we did not buy Hajek w/him being damaged goods already beforehand. Context matters.
As reported, this was a done deal before Stevie Y insisted on extracting jtm for Names. THAT should never have been agreed to, never!
 
it’s funny that people trust Drury to even make a Fox. I sure don’t

If you’re trading you may as well just tear it down to the studs and start over. Go to JT and tell him we want to move you too. No point in keeping him

That's how you become Buffalo. The young players need veterans who arent p***yes to lead them. Otherwise you get a bunch of Kakko and Lafreniere's. Out of shape mental midgets afraid to play the game. Fox too. they follow the lead of Panarin & Meeka, whose game is to overpass and play on the perimeter.

It also doesnt matter if we trust Drury or not, he's the one who is going to continue extracting these core players. he started the process in December. Dolan isnt moving on from him until that job is done. There's no coach or GM that could get success out of the guys on this team who play on PP1 anyway.
 
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm.
If it’s not sarcasm it dropped the boards relative IQ into the negatives.

the only player on that list I’d want back is Kakko, but Borgen has looked solid away from Seattle, and I don’t think Kakko ever turns into the player he is in Seattle here.

The others were literally removing dead weight.
This team has more dead weight that can be removed in the off season.
 
I am not telling you your pt, I was speaking to what was the actual pt discussed. Let's not get snarky here b'c I give as good as I get and then some.

As to the merits of the argument, THIS is the bottom line.
ANY trade has risk, b'c nothing is written in stone, unexpected surprises can and do happen.

That said, AGAIN, YOU FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE ongoing and inescapable reality of hard salary cap requires constant sell high of assets for quality youth, ideally at an exchange of more than $1 value received for $1 surrendered.
This is especially so when a team, like ours, is behind the 8 ball and must take chances to reverse where we are at.

Peeps have to open their eyes and speak the truth.
No one is going to trade established superior value for established inferior value, which is what many are demanding here when they realize it or not.
But youth brings a wild card; potential v actual, which may entertain different projections and estimates, hence room to negotiate and come out ahead

Trading Fox, unless the deal blows your socks off, is a bad idea. He's young, he's essentially irreplaceable, and he can't be deal for wild cards and dart boards.

The inescapable reality of the hard cap is that you have to pay your BEST players (Like, er, Fox) and surround them with quality cost controlled youth.

Fox is not the asset that needs to be traded. CK is. Panarin is. Mika is but holds all the cards.
 
That's how you become Buffalo. The young players need veterans who arent p***yes to lead them. Otherwise you get a bunch of Kakko and Lafreniere's. Out of shape mental midgets afraid to play the game. Fox too. they follow the lead of Panarin & Meeka, whose game is to overpass and play on the perimeter.
Not necessarily. Buffalo's problem isn't that they traded away vets. It's that they can't attract them. We could trade away every player over the age of 25 and vets will still want to play here.

Our problem is that we always end up relying way too much on vets because winning now is always the most important thing, even in the middle of a rebuild, apparently. If we did trade away all of our vets, we'd just bring in new ones who would get opportunities over the young players.

I'm all for young players earning what they get, but we've got to push them. We've got to put them into situations they may not be ready for in order to challenge them and enable them to grow. The NHL isn't a developmental league, but sometimes it is. And when it's not, that's what the AHL is for. How different might Kakko's career be if he had started in the AHL for a couple years, playing big minutes in every possible situation? We'll never know, unfortunately. All we know for certain is that we selected players with the 1st and 2nd overall picks, and neither one has lived up to their draft status. Either that's incredibly bad luck on our part, or we're doing something very wrong in developing young players.
 
If it’s not sarcasm it dropped the boards relative IQ into the negatives.

the only player on that list I’d want back is Kakko, but Borgen has looked solid away from Seattle, and I don’t think Kakko ever turns into the player he is in Seattle here.

The others were literally removing dead weight.
This team has more dead weight that can be removed in the off season.
I think he has even mo potential than that, and whether or not over the next 8 or so yrs if he stayed long term he would have advanced in development, it is sadly true you may be right about him not advancing here now.
That said, we need to go beyond hand wringing and make R mgmt understand the club exists for the fans, not the other way around.
Rs have to bend, buckle and break and do better at developing all players in general (ongoing pursuit of improvement) and youth in particular.
Rs cannot be allowed to tell us we have to settle for their ineptitude.


Trading Fox, unless the deal blows your socks off, is a bad idea. He's young, he's essentially irreplaceable, and he can't be deal for wild cards and dart boards.

The inescapable reality of the hard cap is that you have to pay your BEST players (Like, er, Fox) and surround them with quality cost controlled youth.

Fox is not the asset that needs to be traded. CK is. Panarin is. Mika is but holds all the cards.
Let's politely agree to disagree here.
There are exceptions to every rule, but the rule is you max your strategic position and that means no sacred cows, everybody is always available if it is a reasonable chance at upgrade.

What makes an upgrade?
I continue to hold it is irrational to usually think someone is gonna give you better known value for lesser known value, which is what many including I believe you, are pushing.
Because youth is an unestablished commodity, and the assessment of actual v. potential is highly subjective, this is an avenue where yes, there is risk [there is always risk] but there is reward of possible more than $1 return for $1 surrendered.
That is necessary in general to some extent always to stay ahead of the curve given cap reality.
And it is paramount essential for this team, which owns the Lias + Krav failures on top of beyond stupid rentals in recent years
time to pay the piper

learn w/da bern
 
Mika:

    • Who resembles God: This meaning is linked to the Hebrew origins and the biblical prophet Micah.
Doesn't sound like a guy with a small dick to me.
hand-gesture-fingers-showing-something-260nw-2451199987.jpg
 
I think he has even mo potential than that, and whether or not over the next 8 or so yrs if he stayed long term he would have advanced in development, it is sadly true you may be right about him not advancing here now.
That said, we need to go beyond hand wringing and make R mgmt understand the club exists for the fans, not the other way around.
Rs have to bend, buckle and break and do better at developing all players in general (ongoing pursuit of improvement) and youth in particular.
Rs cannot be allowed to tell us we have to settle for their ineptitude.



Let's politely agree to disagree here.
There are exceptions to every rule, but the rule is you max your strategic position and that means no sacred cows, everybody is always available if it is a reasonable chance at upgrade.

What makes an upgrade?
I continue to hold it is irrational to usually think someone is gonna give you better known value for lesser known value, which is what many including I believe you, are pushing.
Because youth is an unestablished commodity, and the assessment of actual v. potential is highly subjective, this is an avenue where yes, there is risk [there is always risk] but there is reward of possible more than $1 return for $1 surrendered.
That is necessary in general to some extent always to stay ahead of the curve given cap reality.
And it is paramount essential for this team, which owns the Lias + Krav failures on top of beyond stupid rentals in recent years
time to pay the piper

learn w/da bern

No comment here other than learn w/da bern is maybe the greatest thing to ever be written.
 
We have to stop paying top dollar for UFAs as though they will save our team. Outside of Messier, when has that ever worked? That was a different time. There was no salary cap, and Marner is no Messier.

It didn't work with Panarin. Why would it work with Marner? His teams have had zero success in the playoffs. He isn't a guy that is going to put the team on his back in the playoffs and lead them to a cup.
A few thoughts.

1. Messier was a trade not a UFA.

2. Did Bread not work? I feel he gave us some excellent years. Is a cup the only way to judge whether a signing or trade worked?

3. Should we close our minds to all UFA in the future? Wouldn't that out us at a disadvantage against other teams in the NHL and other sports that have won with the help of UFAs? I'm not in favor of overpaying guys but if McDavid let it be known that he would sign in NY I would walk to Edmonton and carry him to NY.
 
Panarin Error. John Davidson was a good announcer but he did irreparable harm to the culture of the team becoming infatuated with Panarin and Trouba, 2 mercenary losers who could give a shit about the rangers and their fans. Gorton was not much better. half the guys we traded would still be the best player on the Rangers right now all these years later. Wouldve rather built around Zucc than panarin. At least he was our guy.
What a ridiculous assertion. So tired of the Panarin slander when he’s the only f***ing reason this team has even been passably watchable. This team without Panarin would be right there with Buffalo, and in some ways this fan base would have deserved that fate. Guy has given the Rangers 2 MVP level seasons, is the best producer in team history on a PPG basis, paced for 100+ points every season as a Ranger up until this season. Also he doesn’t care about being a Ranger? Based on what? It’s bullshit.

Is it time for him to go? Probably, because he’s going to be 34 and this team sucks and should rebuild but it’s not on him.
 
A few thoughts.

1. Messier was a trade not a UFA.

2. Did Bread not work? I feel he gave us some excellent years. Is a cup the only way to judge whether a signing or trade worked?

3. Should we close our minds to all UFA in the future? Wouldn't that out us at a disadvantage against other teams in the NHL and other sports that have won with the help of UFAs? I'm not in favor of overpaying guys but if McDavid let it be known that he would sign in NY I would walk to Edmonton and carry him to NY.
1. Same concept, though. Bringing in a high-priced veteran to build around instead of building from the draft. We managed to pull some very important players out of the draft as well at that time (Richter, Leetch, Zubov, Kovalev), which is the only reason the Messier acquisition worked.

2. No, Bread didn't work. Outside of last year, his 2 best years were his first two with the Rangers, both of which ended without playoffs. In the years we have made the playoffs, his playoff performances haven't been worth 11.6 mil. We supposedly went through a rebuild, but somehow 7 years later, msot of our top offensive players are all 31+ years old. Yes, we made it to 2 ECFs. We had the lead in both of them and then fell apart because as a whole, this team was poorly constructed. And now we are staring at a major retool if not a total rebuild.

3. No, we shouldn't close our minds to UFAs in the future. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't be constructing the core of our team from UFAs and trades for high-priced vets. When a team goes through a rebuild and not one of the players we drafted is a top contributor on the team, that's a problem.
 
I don't think the organization is going to ask Panarin to waive unless next season starts with them struggling. It's hard to see them getting back anything that makes them head into next season with a mindset that they can still compete.

Kakko, Lindgren, Smith, Trouba, Goodrow - Despite them playing like garbage here, (for the most part) that's still a lot to lose in 1 season. There's a lot of RFA's and of course a lot of signs pointing to Kreider being gone. I'm just not sure the organization is ready to take that step backwards and move on from Panarin without next starting starting off on the wrong foot. If you trade Panarin, you better make sure through trades/signs, you're getting a solid top 6 in place, or it's going to be a really bad team, worse than this current team. Sometimes you have to move backwards to move forward, but there's not a lot of promising players in our pipeline, and magics beans are just magic beans.

This fanbase blows up after a Miller turnover. I'm not sure they can handle being a far worse team. Buffalo has been trying to build from the draft for 10+ years. Nothing is a guarantee.
 
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