Roster Building Thread : Part XVIII ( TDL is March 7th)

We have to stop paying top dollar for UFAs as though they will save our team. Outside of Messier, when has that ever worked? That was a different time. There was no salary cap, and Marner is no Messier.

It didn't work with Panarin. Why would it work with Marner? His teams have had zero success in the playoffs. He isn't a guy that is going to put the team on his back in the playoffs and lead them to a cup.

The one argument for keeping Panarin that I can get behind is that he ties up 11.6 that you can't spend on someone this summer (and at worse, he's only got 1 additional year left. From a cap sheet perspective it makes all the sense in the world to try to clear Kreider and Zibanejad ahead of him even if he's culture poison.)

This UFA class is ass. Marner is better than Panarin but it's another player cut from the same deck who has a slightly better playoff resume.
 
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The one argument for keeping Panarin that I can get behind is that he ties up 11.6 that you can't spend on someone this summer (and at worse, he's only got 1 additional year left. From a cap sheet perspective it makes all the sense in the world to try to clear Kreider and Zibanejad ahead of him even if he's culture poison.)

This UFA class is ass. Marner is better than Panarin but it's another player cut from the same deck who has a slightly better playoff resume.
It's a dark timeline when keeping neerdowells is the only course of action against them signing other neerdowells.
 
It's a dark timeline when keeping neerdowells is the only course of action against them signing other neerdowells.

I still wouldn't mind being rid of Panarin because I'm tired of him and we've already gotten the best of him that he is going to provide. From an asset management standpoint, they could probably do pretty well if they traded him this summer. I also think he's a bigger source for this team's issues than anyone is letting on.

I also have zero confidence in this FO's ability to keep it in their pants if they went in that direction. We're going to want those dollars in 2026 because while all the UFA to be's aren't going to make it that far, some of them will and we have an owner who is more than happy to spend money. The 2026 crop is legit worth spending dough on.
 
The Miller trade was acquiring another player in his 30's with major term remaining at big dollars. Are the Rangers really a better team? 9-7-2. It's the overall philosophy of acquiring Miller. The Rangers have allocated $8M for the next five seasons for another 32 year old player. Miller is a best player in the trade. That's not the point.

The Rangers are dumb. In 2017, the Rangers traded Stepan to Arizona and they didn't acquire a replacement. They never gave Miller a run at center. They didn't trust him defensively. One year later, Miller was traded. The Rangers had their replacement for Stepan already in house but they couldn't see it. The Rangers weren't a very good team in 17-18. They were trying to relive the glory days of 2014 and 2015. They played Hayes over Miller at center.

The Rangers now have Miller playing on RW or at center. It changes every game with Zibanejad. Just leave the guy at center please.

People get too fixated on the players. How do all of these players fit?

The Rangers PP is 7 for 46 with Miller. 26th overall since the Miller trade. Staple had that number. When Fox was out, people were blaming Jones for the PP woes. The PP sucked before Fox got hurt.

The Rangers need big changes.

The Rangers try these incremental moves. Miller is better than Chytil. What's the direction of the team?

You're completely missing the point here.

I'm not speculating about the Rangers building around Miller or whether that's right or wrong. I'm saying that JT Miller is an asset that's A LOT more valuable than Chytil is no matter what the Rangers "plan" is if they even have one.

Solely from an asset perspective, it's a move you make every time.
 
You're completely missing the point here.

I'm not speculating about the Rangers building around Miller or whether that's right or wrong. I'm saying that JT Miller is an asset that's A LOT more valuable than Chytil is no matter what the Rangers "plan" is if they even have one.

Solely from an asset perspective, it's a move you make every time.
His value as an asset is really only relevant if we trade him. And let's not forget, we gave up a 1st and Mancini as well to get him. However much value you place on them, that has to be factored into the equation.

It's clear that Drury is going to try to retool this team, which means keeping JT for at least next year. If we completely bottom out, maybe the strategy changes. More likely, we'll be a bubble team for a few years as Drury digs the hole deeper and deeper, after which, JT might have much less value.

The problem with the JT trade is the strategy it implies. I don't care about winning value deals if it means the team is moving in the wrong direction.
 
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Just want to say Happy St. Patrick's Day to those who celebrate like Sam McRosen and John O'Davidson.

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His value as an asset is really only relevant if we trade him. And let's not forget, we gave up a 1st and Mancini as well to get him. However much value you place on them, that has to be factored into the equation.

It's clear that Drury is going to try to retool this team, which means keeping JT for at least next year. If we completely bottom out, maybe the strategy changes. More likely, we'll be a bubble team for a few years as Drury digs the hole deeper and deeper, after which, JT might have much less value.

The problem with the JT trade is the strategy it implies. I don't care about winning value deals if it means the team is moving in the wrong direction.
It's curious how you mention what else we traded but not what else we got - Brannstrom (now Nicolas Aube-Kubel) and Dorrington (NorthEastern).

And, I don't know about the "wrong direction". I mean, Nov/Dec were about as bad as stretch as I can remember in almost 50 years of watching Rangers hockey.

I guess if we're talking about a "few years" as you say above, we'll need to see what changes those few years bring before we judge them in advance.

In all honestly, Chytil is a nearly worthless asset as talented as he is. If the draft pick is from this year's very weak draft then that is more than likely a fringe asset and I did like Mancini but Kubel/Dorrington is probably close to equal value.

Stamkos got 8 million at age 34. Miller will still have plenty of value in 2 years if nothing works out.
 
His value as an asset is really only relevant if we trade him. And let's not forget, we gave up a 1st and Mancini as well to get him. However much value you place on them, that has to be factored into the equation.

It's clear that Drury is going to try to retool this team, which means keeping JT for at least next year. If we completely bottom out, maybe the strategy changes. More likely, we'll be a bubble team for a few years as Drury digs the hole deeper and deeper, after which, JT might have much less value.

The problem with the JT trade is the strategy it implies. I don't care about winning value deals if it means the team is moving in the wrong direction.
Not only from the asset trade perspective.

(From the contract term perspective) Chytil would've been here for another few years - let's leave his health aside for a second - and then might as well priced himself out. During these next few years we now have JTM who's a PPG for the whole season worth of games - neither plateau(s) Chytil seems able to reach. Fox, Shesterkin are the building blocks. JTM vs Chytil doesn't change it one bit. The only silver lining was how cheap the contract is vs. Miller.
 
Not only from the asset trade perspective.

(From the contract term perspective) Chytil would've been here for another few years - let's leave his health aside for a second - and then might as well priced himself out. During these next few years we now have JTM who's a PPG for the whole season worth of games - neither plateau(s) Chytil seems able to reach. Fox, Shesterkin are the building blocks. JTM vs Chytil doesn't change it one bit. The only silver lining was how cheap the contract is vs. Miller.
bold WAS true
failure to hit on high picks means they have to be repurposed for quality youth w/upside which become our new + current building blocks

look at it this way
if it takes 3-4 yrs to get it right and crush it on all cylinders, Shesty likely is end of his prime, but still prime
but it is a risk Fox will age well

also, we don't want to waste Garand
gamble on Garand sell high on Igor
 
Not only from the asset trade perspective.

(From the contract term perspective) Chytil would've been here for another few years - let's leave his health aside for a second - and then might as well priced himself out. During these next few years we now have JTM who's a PPG for the whole season worth of games - neither plateau(s) Chytil seems able to reach. Fox, Shesterkin are the building blocks. JTM vs Chytil doesn't change it one bit. The only silver lining was how cheap the contract is vs. Miller.
JTM is another high-priced, aging vet with a lot of term and an NMC. He is only going to get worse from this point onward.

That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if we had a solid core around him, but we don't. Outside of Laf and Cuylle, our forward core is all on the wrong side of 30. That isn't a recipe for long-term success. Adding JTM to the mix only exacerbates the issue.

We potentially have some help coming, but it isn't enough, and free agency isn't going to save us.
 
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JTM is another high-priced, aging vet with a lot of term and an NMC. He is only going to get worse from this point onward.

That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if we had a solid core around him, but we don't. Outside of Laf and Cuylle, our forward core is all on the wrong side of 30. That isn't a recipe for long-term success. Adding JTM to the mix only exacerbates the issue.

We potentially have some help coming, but it isn't enough, and free agency isn't going to save us.
Get worse or stay at the current level in the next few years is how people trying to make an opposite point would frame it.

I know that the current season left a bad taste in most fan's mouths but I can't help but think that rollback this season was not a "trend". Drury did exactly the things that were required following the outcome of the last playoff run and still needs to make a few more moves - the team seems to be set everywhere but the 1LD (expensive?) and 3C (cheapish?) to be a contender again next season.
 
"Trade deadline is past you can't sell high on anyone."
Obv did not mean in immediate sense of this season.
If someone will take him and we can profit, we should go there and not be buying into win now/instant gratification.
We do NOT have the horses. We effed up staking Lias and Krav, and are very fortunate to have Cuylle nevertheless. Other than Vatrano, who was not extended, none of those rentals was smart or productive long term. To pay for this stupid overindulgence, we need to CAREFULLY deal premium vets for as much as we can get in $1+ over a $1 in value, in picks and prospects.

"Mika hasn't had a great season but his legs are working now and looks a ton better."
Fair enuf, but I'd rather repurpose if a suitor will give me enuf. Even if he does not command top $ by himself, in a package he could be enuf of a sweetener to land primo assets in return


"We aren't going anywhere with Carrick or Brodz as a 3c, absolutely no where."
On what basis? Disagree. Consider the eye test, imo it says otherwise.
They have both played very, very well and are great values. They both deserve more mins, and arguably higher line mins.

Why are you talking about trading, we can't repurpose anything right now, the deadline is past. I'm talking about now, trying to get the best of the team we have. Having an ahl player and a real good 4th liner playing higher in the lineup is dumb.
You said on what basis are we going nowhere with Carrick or brodz on line 3...the basis that we haven't had a functional 3rd line since Chytil left and we cant compete with playoff teams. 3rd line used to be a strength, now it's just a repurposed 4th line.
 
The market for free agents is going to be pretty thin come July. Almost every team is looking to lock up their would be free agents if they see them having any significant role for them at all. That may very well means trades if we're at all to improve over the off season. It also leads me to Panarin who will be entering his rental season. What the Rangers decide to do with him? and FWIW he and Miller are the only two legit first line capable players we have. Moving him out might signify we're take a couple steps back as far as the next two three seasons without any certainty that we'll be better for it even after that. So right move to move on from him? wrong move?...who knows.

But if the cap is going to go up $7-8 mil a year teams are going to have to spend money to just to keep cap floor compliant and running mainly on ELC and second contracts might not get you to the floor. So teams are going to need to have some bigger vet contracts. Miller's $8 mil in a couple years might look like someone's $5 mil deal today.
 
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Get worse or stay at the current level in the next few years is how people trying to make an opposite point would frame it.
I wouldn't frame it that way. My view is that we should be more forward thinking. JTM is a short-term move. Trading Panarin for younger NHL players, picks and prospects would be a long-term move.

The end result might be that we get worse in the short-term, but that's not always a given. You never know how things might shake out. Look at the Gaborik trade. We became a better team by trading away our "star" and adding depth. We then traded the best player we got back in that deal, Brassard, and got back a player who turned out to be even better in Mika.

We've come to the point where Kreider's value has greatly diminished. Imagine if we had traded him over the summer, what we might have gotten for him vs what we will get now. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but we have to be willing to take chances like that, especially when we have traded away so many picks and prospects. If we aren't going to keep replenishing the team through the draft, we have to swap out older players for younger players if we want to remain competitive. And by that, I don't mean just waiting until the player hits rock bottom and then dumping him for whatever we can get. We need to trade value for value to get younger. The JTM trade did not do that.
 

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