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Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVIII ( TDL is March 7th)

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bernmeister said:
we def should have taken opportunity to snatch Borgen, who was being made available, and imo even if Mikkola was here, it means someone else would not. But and that said, I have pressed we should not have given KK for Borg and instead paid, if nec even a slightly higher level, but in other currency. It is not clear whether this was/was not possible.

No ? no KK = no more 5x5 proficient kid line
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For sure, I don't have an issue with getting Borgen. I think trading Kakko for him was lunacy/Drury ego trip.

Like, for example, I think we could have kept Kakko, done the Smith trade, and then traded the pick we got from Vegas to Seattle for Borgen. I think that's better than what we ended up with. And they probably could have potentially could have gotten Soucy in the JT Miller trade if we found another asset for Vancouver if he was such a must have target. And I don't dislike Soucy, but the roster construction is super weird right now
 
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Savant said:
Right - and this is kind of my problem with the strategy. We moved the deck chairs on the Titanic. I don't know that we are any better. We might be more cap efficient, but better is different. Fox is (still) their only no doubt top pair caliber Dman. If they do not think Miller is, by locking in Soucy/Borgen/Vaak/Schneider, they have to trade Miller as opposed to giving him a contract. I cannot believe that they traded for Soucy to be Fox partner. Also they extended Borgen based on his play with Miller, so the math isn't really mathing.

The real issue with the D core that no one is really talking about is we basically gave it a face lift to fit Laviolette/Drury and we've ignored the puck movement aspect of this. So like, even if we replace Laviolette; is the next coach going to want another face lift here? The NFL analogy for this is if we bought defenders for a 43 defense, and then hired a coach who wants to run 34. I think this team is going to be in a black hole unless they proceed very carefully
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It's more like trying to run a RPO with uh... the least mobile QB that you can ever think of.

I do think that the players now are better than the ones they sent out, but as you said it's ignoring what was actually the issue.

Theres a place for good defense (if it's being provided) in any system. The Borgen/Soucy types can exist on almost any team and in any system and be a net positive (provided that they're slotted into a rotation correctly and utilized in a manner where they aren't being asked to do too much.)

You're not going to win with a defense full of these guys. I don't think a face lift would be too hard to do though. They literally would just have to replace Soucy with a better puck mover. I don't think the bottom pair really needs to be better than it has been (more of a nice to have than a requirement.)
 
GoAwayPanarin said:
It's more like trying to run a RPO with uh... the least mobile QB that you can ever think of.

I do think that the players now are better than the ones they sent out, but as you said it's ignoring what was actually the issue.

Theres a place for good defense (if it's being provided) in any system. The Borgen/Soucy types can exist on almost any team and in any system and be a net positive (provided that they're slotted into a rotation correctly and utilized in a manner where they aren't being asked to do too much.)

You're not going to win with a defense full of these guys. I don't think a face lift would be too hard to do though. They literally would just have to replace Soucy with a better puck mover. I don't think the bottom pair really needs to be better than it has been (more of a nice to have than a requirement.)
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I mean I think the bottom pair gets better by improving the top pair and pushing guys down the lineup. The "easiest" way to do this would be something like

LHD-Fox
Miller-Borgen
Soucy-Schneider

But we just extended Vaakanainen so there are 5 NHL Dmen under contract for next season, Miller (and Jones lol) needs a new deal, and trading for 1LHD; especially with our current asset pool is going to be easier said than done.

If we wind up with something like

Miller-Fox
Soucy-Borgen
Vaakanainen-Schneider

That may be more realistic, but you are betting the house on Miller; and its hard to say if that is a good bet or not. And again it doesn't solve our puck movement weakness; may not be attractive to a different coach who wants to change the defense style up. This very much is a defense that may be better on paper but they can only do one thing
 
Oscar Lindberg said:
Chris Drury go get Dahlin

I’ll stop complaining about him for a few months if he does
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I do believe something like this is in play (not based off anything I've heard). But I've seen a lot of people on Twitter complaining that Drury has locked in a bunch of #3D, but one big move (we have enough cap space, NHL players (Miller, Schneider, Laf, Kreider,etc.) to include in a deal, and prospects (Berard, Othmann, Sykora, Perreault) to pull something off.

Now who will it be, I don't know. But let's say Dahlin. And let's say Schneider goes the other way. All of a sudden that D group full of #3D looks pretty steady to me. But maybe I'm in the minority.

Miller - Fox (best xGoals% in NHL this year)
Dahlin - Borgen
Vak - Soucy

Get Housley out and see what this group can do 😄
 
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Machinehead said:
The sentiment is accurate. The number should be higher.
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Maybe, maybe not. But you don't need the 2017 Predators' group to win the Cup.

Aside from Carolina, Florida, and Vegas, I can't think of many groups, if any, in the NHL where there aren't multiple weak links or guys playing a bigger role than they should be.

You can't tell me if the Rangers were deploying the Stars or Jets or Caps or Leafs groups', there wouldn't be a large portion of this fan base that are revolted.

It's very possible one of these guys plays 20+ minutes a night en route to a Stanley Cup: Ryan Lindgren(!!), Cody Ceci, Darnell Nurse, JJ Moser, Jake McCabe, Dylan Samberg, Martin Fehervary.
 
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Buffalo probably doesn’t even consider trading Dahlin unless they’re getting Fox back. It would be silly to trade Fox, but that’s the type of organizational shakeup that *could* work for both teams. Fox and something else (Laf?) for Dahlin and Peterka?

It serves a two-fold purpose of making Gorton’s misses from 2017-19 look better by replenishing that age group in the core. Peterka’s new contract will make it somewhat salary matched. It’s a complete fantasy, but I could see the slim chance of it being something Drury does to leave it all on the table.
 
ThePeoplesPeople said:
Maybe, maybe not. But you don't need the 2017 Predators' group to win the Cup.

Aside from Carolina, Florida, and Vegas, I can't think of many groups, if any, in the NHL where there aren't multiple weak links or guys playing a bigger role than they should be.

You can't tell me if the Rangers were deploying the Stars or Jets or Caps or Leafs groups', there wouldn't be a large portion of this fan base that are revolted.

It's very possible one of these guys plays 20+ minutes a night en route to a Stanley Cup: Ryan Lindgren(!!), Cody Ceci, Darnell Nurse, JJ Moser, Jake McCabe, Dylan Samberg, Martin Fehervary.
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Samberg and Fehervary are good!

McCabe used to be good and Nurse overpaid but he doesn’t belong in a group with Lindgren and Ceci.

Don’t know enough about Moser.
 
GoAwayPanarin said:
Samberg and Fehervary are good!

McCabe used to be good and Nurse overpaid but he doesn’t belong in a group with Lindgren and Ceci.

Don’t know enough about Moser.
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Moser is very good. I was hoping Drury would target him as a Lindgren replacement this past offseason. Can’t blame him in that scenario when he’s being used as the main piece to get Sergachev
 
ThePeoplesPeople said:
Maybe, maybe not. But you don't need the 2017 Predators' group to win the Cup.

Aside from Carolina, Florida, and Vegas, I can't think of many groups, if any, in the NHL where there aren't multiple weak links or guys playing a bigger role than they should be.

You can't tell me if the Rangers were deploying the Stars or Jets or Caps or Leafs groups', there wouldn't be a large portion of this fan base that are revolted.

It's very possible one of these guys plays 20+ minutes a night en route to a Stanley Cup: Ryan Lindgren(!!), Cody Ceci, Darnell Nurse, JJ Moser, Jake McCabe, Dylan Samberg, Martin Fehervary.
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If you're conceding that these guys are "weak links or guys playing a bigger role than they should be" then they're not #3's.
 
The Rangers need earth shattering trades.

The Sabres are looking for a RHD. Buffalo had interest in Lafreniere during the Eichel talks. Both of them are signed players. They will be in Buffalo for a while. Four more years of Fox. Seven more years of Lafreniere.

Fox and Lafreniere to Buffalo for Owen Power, JJ Peterka and the Sabres first round pick this June. The Rangers add a smaller asset. Mid-round pick.

Buffalo isn't trading Dahlin. Byram is another small D. Power it is. He is signed for six more seasons. The Rangers like Peterka and re-sign him to an extension as part of the trade. The Sabres don't need another high first round pick. There are some really good players available at the top end of this draft for the Rangers who really need to add high end young talent. The Sabres want to make a hockey trade.
 
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If the Peterka thing is real, add Byram and send them Kreider, Jones, Othmann and Schneider. Maybe Kreider asked to stay till the end of the year to see what happens and Drury obliged. Then before the draft we will see something like this.

And before anyone says anything, yeah I get that othmann hasn't been bad. Thats not the point. We have too many wingers, especially LW, and turning 2 of them in 1 good RW is worth it.

Then maybe Panarin gets traded. I could see it. Only 1 year left and maybe ready to move on. Can still technically trade Igor before July 1 too. Haha

I absolutely know if he is available on July 1, Drury will sign Chychrun.
 
Machinehead said:
It's still quite a significant straight downgrade, but as far as straight downgrades go, Power is not the worst proposal I've heard for Fox.
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Because people have suggested Byram.

I’m going to collect a collage of Byram gaffes from the last few weeks when I get a second. Too much love for this player and I don’t think people really know what he is.

I don’t want Power under this staff. He needs someone who knows how to unlock his tools. I don’t think NYR would be a better spot for him than Buffalo in that regard.
 
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