Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

[Fitzy]

Would you trade Lafreniere for Owen Power? K'andre Miller for Cozens?

Don't see Buffalo as a good partner for us but they have some really interesting players.

 

[Alluckks]

How's that been working out for them so far?

Well they don't have the boat anchor of Adam Fox, for starters

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Zibanejad has full NMC
no idea why so many people think he's tradeable
Kreider isn't getting moved either
Panarin would've been bubble wrapped and sat by now if he was getting moved

 

[Alluckks]

Can’t believe Drury gave out these contracts with no one watching

 

[LokiDog]

If Zibanejad can continue to play well, whether it be on the wing or at center, there’s no reason to move him for the time being.

I know that will make some whine but that’s reality.

I absolutely eviscerated Zib at times this year, but I also had some posts 3+ years ago genuinely arguing he was our MVP at that time. I like to think that I fairly acknowledge improvements/declines without letting my personal feelings get in the way. Mika’s been pretty good since the calendar flipped and definitely has been since 4N. Don’t really care what the reason is - I will 100% take it. I don’t think we’ll ever see the dynamic player that we thought was going to be our 1C until he was 35, but I’m perfectly okay with him on the wing, with the cap rising as long as he continues to play like this. We’re lucky that Miller/Trochek can take the C duties away without it hurting us.

I think Kreider should just be put on the shelf for the remainder of the year. I think the injury questions are hurting his trade value and we could get more for him next year if he comes back rested, recovered and has a much better year. But if he’s kept, I don’t want him playing until next year. If we make the playoffs we can discuss him getting into the lineup, but until he’s healthy, just let him sit. Honestly, I think Mika not having his buddy attached to his hip is part of the turn around for him anyway. I haven’t heard specifics yet but if Fox’s injury is serious, just let him rest the remainder of the year too. I’d much rather have Fox at 100% next year than have him fight through whatever cumulative nagging crap he’s already had and add this shoulder on top. Fox may still be a top 5D in the NHL… when healthy. What does it matter if we can’t ever see him at more than 80-90%?

Panarin is the only one I think is worth putting active effort into finding a deal for. He’s still pacing for 90 points and he’s only a year removed from 120 on a team the whole league knows universally struggled. GMs will still see 100 point winger and getting TWO post season runs at 5.8M has genuine value. Plenty of others are already posting it; he’s the right fit for a Florida/Tampa, maybe Dallas with Seguin out, maybe even NJ with Hughes out - though we know he’d light us up for the one more year on that contract. Not the end of the world though. Vegas. Carolina if they move Rantanen? There’s options, and I don’t really think Artemi would be a hard ass about his NMC as long as we’re sending him somewhere he likes and is competitive.

A lot of people poo-pooed the JTM acquisition. Lots of “he immediately became JT from his first time here” posts and stuff like that when the trade went down. Guy is our best player right now and pretty much has been from his third game or so. He’s a horse physically and will stay in great shape. Wish he was a few years younger, but right now, JT is - I think - more responsible for any perceived turn around this team is experiencing than people realize. He’s the exact type of player that was needed. He’s far from perfect and he has his brain farts and controller disconnects and coasts at times, but when he wants to play, which is 90% of the time, he’s a maniac and I love that. I’m pretty happy with both of these trades by Drury so far. He’s done pretty well with trading since the Buch debacle. I don’t like his contract negotiations. I hate his coaching staff. I’m glad be stood his ground against the country club though.

I don’t care if we make or miss the playoffs. Happy to make it and give Pittsburgh the 16th pick or whatever. Just don’t BUY. That’s all I care about. The team had a nice shutout win (shit opponent, but still) with no Fox, Kreider, Smith, Lindgren. Keep it rolling - whatever happens, happens. Win, lose. Just stay this course. Make the moves like Smith that are obvious and investigate a hockey trade for Panarin. Just please don’t ADD unless it makes sense beyond 2025. That’s all I’m asking. That and don’t rush Kreider/Fox back because we MAY get a WC spot. Sliding into the 8 spot is NOT as valuable as those two being fully healthy next year.

The reasoning with Fox is obvious. With Kreider, he’s a beloved Ranger half of you don’t want to see go… so, he comes back fully healthy and his game picks up and he gets to finish his career in NY without a tarnished legacy OR he comes back healthy but the team still needs further tinkering, and he at least is able to return greater value as a trade chip. There’s no reason to rush either into the lineup right now. Let the chips fall as they will.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Zibanejad has full NMC
no idea why so many people think he's tradeable
Kreider isn't getting moved either
Panarin would've been bubble wrapped and sat by now if he was getting moved

Kreider has only a 15 team NTC, you can bet your last dollar he will be gone by the summer.

Panarin would also be a summer time move.

As for Mika, players can still get traded with those. Pretty easily actually.

 

[LokiDog]

Can’t believe Drury gave out these contracts with no one watching

If this is a jab at my posts about Dru handing out NMCs, it’s not the dunk you think it is. My point was about not using the NMC to leverage a better deal. Henrique at 3M, Arvidsson at 4M and especially Buch at 5.8M (they’re talking about this year, the clause on the final year of his previous contract) are all pretty good examples of team friendly cap numbers that were probably at least partially achieved by giving the players the trade protection.

 

[haohmaru]

As for Mika, players can still get traded with those. Pretty easily actually.

Yes, but the blatant issue here is that we would get f***ing fleeced by whoever he dictates is acceptable. Just like Miller did and that's hardly in the best interests of the Rangers - particularly given that he's been pretty good now for two months and the cap is going up astronomically.

Just remember the contracts that Okposo, etc... got when the cap was jumping. Mika will be a bargain in a couple of years.

If this is a jab at my posts about Dru handing out NMCs, it’s not the dunk you think it is. My point was about not using the NMC to leverage a better deal. Henrique at 3M, Arvidsson at 4M and especially Buch at 5.8M (they’re talking about this year, the clause on the final year of his previous contract) are all pretty good examples of team friendly cap numbers that were probably at least partially achieved by giving the players the trade protection.

Mika's deal was considered team friendly at the time too.

 

[Alluckks]

If this is a jab at my posts about Dru handing out NMCs, it’s not the dunk you think it is. My point was about not using the NMC to leverage a better deal. Henrique at 3M, Arvidsson at 4M and especially Buch at 5.8M (they’re talking about this year, the clause on the final year of his previous contract) are all pretty good examples of team friendly cap numbers that were probably at least partially achieved by giving the players the trade protection.

My point was these are not even close to star players that somehow got NMCs in the final year or 2 years of their deals. They are mediocre at best vets that would certainly be right in any GMs radar as trade bait in their final year or two yet they got NMCs. It happens all over. These contract structures are literally all over. It also goes to the whole back and forth of oh just go count how many other teams have, etc. Friedman literally just found out about 2 of these today after doing a podcast about moving these players.

 

[LokiDog]

Yes, but the blatant issue here is that we would get f***ing fleeced by whoever he dictates is acceptable. Just like Miller did and that's hardly in the best interests of the Rangers - particularly given that he's been pretty good now for two months and the cap is going up astronomically.

Just remember the contracts that Okposo, etc... got when the cap was jumping. Mika will be a bargain in a couple of years.



Mika's deal was considered team friendly at the time too.

I’m not going to rehash the arguments. Shesterkin’s deal is indefensible. And my point was simply look at Slavin’s extension in Carolina; some teams get a guy who wants to bet there for life, give him the full NMC and get a truly team friendly deal. Fox, for example (again, I don’t want to revisit the debate) got what was going rate at the time (yes, it’s aged into value because of the rise of salaries around the league, but that has no bearing on the negotiations at the time of signing). He got $500k more than Makar who got zero trade protection while also managing to squeeze a full NMC out of the only team he was willing to play for in the entire league. I’m not saying he got overpaid but I am saying that he didn’t do us any favors or cut us any bargains in exchange for the guarantee he’d be on the team he wanted to be on. He got paid exactly the market rate at that time.

Slavin on the other hand, a couple years later in an environment where the cap is about to explode upwards, just gave Carolina 8 years at 6.4M. Makes it sort of feel like Fox only wanted to play for the NYR who he loves so much and wants to bring a Cup to, but not as much as Slavin, who is from Colorado, wants to bring one to Carolina. He signed this past year; he easily gets 9M+ on the open market this summer if he hadn’t.

Reiterating for the third time, just because I really, truly don’t want to revisit the debate about this, these are just MY feelings. You don’t have to agree. I don’t think Fox is overpaid. I’m not talking about trading him or saying that I want him to waive his NMC/wish he didn’t have one. I’m simply using the facts of situation at the time the contract was signed to explain how I FEEL. At the time 9.5M was not a discount in any form. It was $500k more than Makar, so it was basically market rate. Adam Fox literally refused to play for any other team in the NHL and we couldn’t get any kind of concessions in negotiations from him.

Shesterkin just reset the goalie market by like 3M and still got a full NMC. I don’t care what pundits speculated he would get on the open market. There’s nothing team friendly about his deal and we still threw in the full NMC. And he has taken a big dump so far since.

Edit: not sure why my response got merged into your quote lol

 

[LokiDog]

My point was these are not even close to star players that somehow got NMCs in the final year or 2 years of their deals. They are mediocre at best vets that would certainly be right in any GMs radar as trade bait in their final year or two yet they got NMCs. It happens all over. These contract structures are literally all over. It also goes to the whole back and forth of oh just go count how many other teams have, etc. Friedman literally just found out about 2 of these today after doing a podcast about moving these players.

Just because Friedman just found out about it doesn’t mean they aren’t listed in black and white for anyone to find. Meanwhile Edmonton’s cap structure is f***ed so they had to give out NMCs to get their guys, but at least the money fit. Buchnevich is not some aging vet and he’s extended to a new deal already so any team getting him isn’t getting a rental or short term player, and yet 5.8M is very friendly for the player he was when he signed that contract.

 

[SA16]

I’m not going to rehash the arguments. Shesterkin’s deal is indefensible. And my point was simply look at Slavin’s extension in Carolina; some teams get a guy who wants to bet there for life, give him the full NMC and get a truly team friendly deal. Fox, for example (again, I don’t want to revisit the debate) got what was going rate at the time (yes, it’s aged into value because of the rise of salaries around the league, but that has no bearing on the negotiations at the time of signing). He got $500k more than Makar who got zero trade protection while also managing to squeeze a full NMC out of the only team he was willing to play for in the entire league. I’m not saying he got overpaid but I am saying that he didn’t do us any favors or cut us any bargains in exchange for the guarantee he’d be on the team he wanted to be on. He got paid exactly the market rate at that time. Slavin on the other hand, a couple years later in an environment where the cap is about to explode upwards, just gave Carolina 8 years at 6.4M. Makes it sort of feel like Fox only wanted to play for the NYR who he loves so much and wants to bring a Cup to, but not as much as Slavin from Colorado wants to bring one to Carolina. Reiterating for the third time, just because I really, truly don’t want to revisit the debate about this, these are just MY feelings. You don’t have to agree. I don’t think Fox is overpaid. I’m not talking about trading him or saying that I want him to waive his NMC/wish he didn’t have one. I’m simply using the facts of situation at the time the contract was signed to explain how I FEEL. At the time 9.5M was not a discount in any form. It was $500k more than Makar who got zero trade protection. Adam Fox literally refused to play for any other team in the NHL and we couldn’t get any kind of concessions in negotiations from him. Shesterkin just reset the goalie market by like 3M and still got a full NMC. I don’t care what pundits speculated he would get on the open market. There’s nothing team friendly about his deal and we still through in the full NMC. And he has taken a big dump so far since.

Makar got 0 trade protection because he wasn't even eligible to get any trade protection until the last year of the deal. I don't know why they didn't put one in for the last year

 

[leetch99]

near zero chance kreider is moved with his injury.

It’s just a wonder whether they will acquire a D, but the market is thin.

I read some rumblings on Connor Murphy if the price is right.

Sounds good...and bring back his dad as a D coach to fix our system .

 

[duhmetreE]

Would you trade Lafreniere for Owen Power? K'andre Miller for Cozens?

Don't see Buffalo as a good partner for us but they have some really interesting players.

No to trading KAM. We just can’t afford to and Buffalo would probably want Schneider.

Laffy for Power is interesting. I don’t think the org would though. I’d rather just sign Chychrun and keep Laffy

 

[leetch99]

How's that been working out for them so far?

No goalie . It is simple....find a Hank and the team is off to the races . Some wins and playoffs maybe RR and JE are still there along with many other good players . A great goalie or really good one is the backbone of a winning club . I never had Ullmark or Halak in that group .

Former Buffalo Sabres playoff lineup is EPIC in 2023

Let's create some lines with former Buffalo Sabres that are currently in the postseason for the 2023 Stanley Cup Playoffs!

sabrenoise.com

 

[bernmeister]

That's me! Zib performing up to his contract playing a position this organization is lacking in the system will be important if Drury wants a retool.

The bigger question is can he keep this consistency the rest of this season. If not, then yes he has to go.

bold = risk not worth taking
can't let this guy dictate when he turns it on/off

If Zibanejad can continue to play well, whether it be on the wing or at center, there’s no reason to move him for the time being.

I know that will make some whine but that’s reality.

nope, see above

Zibanejad has full NMC
no idea why so many people think he's tradeable
Kreider isn't getting moved either
Panarin would've been bubble wrapped and sat by now if he was getting moved

not easy but can be done
requires severe hardball, which is detestable, but nec here

 

[kovazub94]

sounds like what Yzerman said about Girardi when TB signed him.

Girardi still sucked in TB.

There hasn't been net front presence from Lindgren since 2022-2023 presence unless you count situations where trying to catch-up from behind he pushed opponents into Shesterkin.

 

[haohmaru]

Edit: not sure why my response got merged into your quote lol

Makar also signed to one year less than Fox. I mean, there's nuances to all of these arguments for sure but the basic "you can trade guys with NMC's" needs to have context that the player has all the marbles and can take them home whenever he wants, so saying Mika can be traded without it being somewhat of a detriment to the Rangers probably isn't all that close to the truth.

Shesterkin's contract.... ugh. Yeah, didn't love it. Don't love it. I don't have a problem with Fox's. I have questions about Mika's but he's still got enough years left on it that I won't judge.

It could be a lot worse. We could be looking at 8M and 35+ and the results that Stamkos isn't delivering.

 

[JohnC]

Yeah all due respect to Bednar, the guy has to answer the question, but Ryan Lindgren’s eye test fails just as miserably as his analytics test.

He’s from the mold of the traditional stay-at-home defensemen and he doesn’t even do the things they’re supposed to do well (clear the crease, glass & out plays, shot blocking, etc.) anymore.

 

[LokiDog]

Makar also signed to one year less than Fox. I mean, there's nuances to all of these arguments for sure but the basic "you can trade guys with NMC's" needs to have context that the player has all the marbles and can take them home whenever he wants, so saying Mika can be traded without it being somewhat of a detriment to the Rangers probably isn't all that close to the truth.

Shesterkin's contract.... ugh. Yeah, didn't love it. Don't love it. I don't have a problem with Fox's. I have questions about Mika's but he's still got enough years left on it that I won't judge.

It could be a lot worse. We could be looking at 8M and 35+ and the results that Stamkos isn't delivering.

Yeah, it’s 2 different conversations. I don’t like the handing out of NMCs simply because if things don’t work out 5 years into an 8 year deal (or whatever) the player can limit (if waiving at all) to one team, make it public and force you to accept basically whatever scraps you can get. I was responding to another post that I thought may be a slight poke at me for ranting about Drury not wielding the clauses effectively (ie. to get better value on the contracts) but I agree that the whole “NMCs can be moved” thing has nuance and is wishful thinking that it goes the way you want it to.

I don’t have a problem with Fox’s contract either. That was never my point, to criticize the contract. And it doesn’t matter in this case that he has the NMC. I was only using to illustrate that I feel Drury gives pretty much normal going rate to guys and still gives them full 8 year NMCs. Not upset with Fox’s contract and it’s already aged well - I was just saying that AT the time it was signed, it was basically market value, AND if anything, we had the leverage of him publicly admitting he only wanted to play here. Shesterkin, kind of similar - I don’t really care what pundits speculated a team like Buffalo might throw at him in UFA - we caved to his demands of ridiculously resetting the goalie market and again gave him a full NMC. My point was St. Louis getting Buchnevich (who at the time was excellent) signed at 5.8M or Carolina getting Slavin signed at 6.4M or even Edmonton getting - albeit mediocre depth guys, but the guys they wanted - guys to fit into their screwed up cap structure were examples of giving out clauses IN EXCHANGE for something. I feel that we don’t get anything in exchange thereby just leaving ourselves handcuffed to players who control if/where they can ever be moved.

In no way is it a problem with Fox. I just mention Fox/Makar’s deals at the time they were signed because Fox got more than his obvious closest comparable without sacrificing anything to play for the only team in the league he was even willing to suit up for. Just feels like we ceded all leverage and then did it again with Shesterkin.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I hope not

If you were him would you stay? May as well get something for him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

My point was these are not even close to star players that somehow got NMCs in the final year or 2 years of their deals. They are mediocre at best vets that would certainly be right in any GMs radar as trade bait in their final year or two yet they got NMCs. It happens all over. These contract structures are literally all over. It also goes to the whole back and forth of oh just go count how many other teams have, etc. Friedman literally just found out about 2 of these today after doing a podcast about moving these players.

Henrique and Arvidsson are the players referenced.

 

[Rongomania]

I’m sorry I’ve been out of the loop lately but has Owen Power + for Bread been spoken about ‘round here?

I mean Jeeeeezusss what that could do for us.

Buf has Dahlin and needs a marquee forward like we need next season to arrive.

**** UPDATE 2:57pm****

Inquired about this trade to a gigantic BUF fan friend who works on prestigious network television shows. So, because he is from Buffalo and they are some of the nicest people on this planet earth, he basicallly told me to go f*ck myself in the shortest, funniest and nicest possible way. Take that for what it’s worth. Though I do still stand by that proposal due to the aforementioned fact that Buffalo couldn’t get a star forward to sign there even if they signed the entire franchise over to him as sole owner.

 

[LokiDog]

Henrique and Arvidsson are the players referenced.

Always disingenuous. As if Buchnevich at 5.8M wasn’t included. It’s weird how so many of y’all just have a hard time making your points without abandoning good faith arguments.

 

[pld459666]

Not sure i see the same offensive upside in Parssinen that some others do

In fact, I think he's just another black hole that will do nothing to help bring out offense fron either Berard or Othmann.

Solid 4th liner, but not much more than that.