Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

[Filip Chytil]

Can't wait to see someone like Borgen on PP1 over Zac Jones. No offense to Borg, but Clownviolette is allergic to thinking logically

Lindgren QB'ing the PP1 unit Friday night?

 

[80s Kid]

If that's true, we should've either traded him or let him test the market. Instead we negotiated against ourselves when there wasn't an imminent time crunch. Plus it's set up identically to Mika's deal, with a full NMC & most of the value set up as signing bonuses so there is ZERO chance to buy him out. There is absolutely no defending that contract. None.

LokiDog: "I asked about why we’re giving NMCs specifically, without getting any negotiating leverage in return."

My reply to Loki wasn't about whether or not I think Shesty's contract was good/bad. It was about whether or not the Rangers gave out a NMC in order to get a better deal. Is it not possible that Drury gave out a NMC to get Shesty to sign with the NYR below market value while still being a bad contract?

Shesty isn't the only contract with a NMC either. I pointed out a bunch or others because the argument is about the Rangers being able to get players to sign more team-friendly deals by using NMCs.

 

[Filip Chytil]

No cheating, who are these 5 players. All #1D on their teams.

View attachment 983769View attachment 983770View attachment 983771View attachment 983772View attachment 983773

Your phone at 55%

Lindgren hat trick tomorrow night

 

[duhmetreE]

Gabe looks promising.

At best, he’s Panarin? Will he be able to drive play in the NHL? What happens when time and space is limited in the playoffs?

I know it’s not fair to put that on him yet but we want to build a winner, as in winning a cup.

A diminutive playmaking winger is not at the top of the list when it comes to building a winner imo. It doesn’t mean I want to give him away but I’m definitely inclined to use him for that right piece.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

My mom walked into the room and I had close my tab when reading this post it was that sexy! Best post I've read here in years!

Hard to hide a squat cobbler

 

[noncents]

Great, you can choose between being paid more or getting a full NMC. If you need to be paid more, you can have a 15 team NTC. Or NMC for the first half.

are you cosplaying as NHL GM here?

In seriousness, I think you bring up a good point. Where is the failure in negotiation? Do you think that NYR FO don't have an understanding of leverage? That you, Lokidog, has happened upon an idea - to exchange the safety of an NMC for dollars AAV - that nyr management has overlooked?

 

[Fitzy]

McDonagh was a 1B/2A in Tampa it’s just been a while since we (NYR) have had enough talent to play guys below their station, like cup winners so often do.

That’s why my ideal NYR roster has Borgen on the third pairing

 

[Filip Chytil]

I don't like to opine on players' fitness bc I see regularly on here that Chris "Jumps out of pools" Kreider is the head of the "country club"

The last time Kreider jumped out of a pool, David Quinn was going to his son's 8th grade graduation.

 

[McRanger92]

At best, he’s Panarin? Will he be able to drive play in the NHL? What happens when time and space is limited in the playoffs?

I know it’s not fair to put that on him yet but we want to build a winner, as in winning a cup.

A diminutive playmaking winger is not at the top of the list when it comes to building a winner imo. It doesn’t mean I want to give him away but I’m definitely inclined to use him for that right piece.

I would trade Gabe. Rangers wont use him right when he comes to the NHL. Easily trade him for Brady T, who I think will look to move on from Ottawa when they inevitably miss or are eliminated in R1....

Im looking into the palantir right now and I see some very interesting things. Cap is going up, hockey is seeing a mainstream surge in the US. The league is going to assert itself in American markets in the coming years. I look at the clusterf*** that is the Vancouver Canucks. I followed some very knowledge Canucks accounts during the JT Miller saga and the outlook of that team from a fan perspective is interesting. They hate their management and ownership much more than we do. They are all very concerned about Quinn Hughes re-signing when his contract is up. They believe the org's handling of player injuries (including his own) and the Pettersson/Miller affair has soured him on the direction of the team. Boeser too looks like he is on his way out. I believe Hughes is going to become available in the coming years and the Rangers should be ready for it. Brady T went on chiclets and said Quinn was excited to go to the 4 Nations and Final and Vancouver kiboshed it for "shady" reasons.

The Rangers tie in because I think Chris Drury's objective is to build a team that models it's game after the way Team USA played at the Four Nations. That is the blueprint for the entire USA doctrine that all these guys follow. Tkachuk, Eichel, Quinn Hughes, really anyone involved with USA Hockey I think the Rangers will move mountains to get, for better or worse. I think the NHL and Bettman do not mind this one bit. History of this league and the Rangers makes me sorta confident that few of those guys are going to be Rangers. The league i better when the characters and narratives are in the big markets.

 

[Fitzy]

If Fox is not included on the US Olympic
roster while he’s a healthy willing option I will actually eat several bites from a boiled dress shoe for the forum.

You all are dumbasses if you believe that’ll even be considered

 

[Machinehead]

If Fox is not included on the US Olympic
roster while he’s a healthy willing option I will actually eat several bites from a boiled dress shoe for the forum.

You all are dumbasses if you believe that’ll even be considered

Still the only American defenseman even eating at the same table is Hughes.

 

[LokiDog]

are you cosplaying as NHL GM here?

In seriousness, I think you bring up a good point. Where is the failure in negotiation? Do you think that NYR FO don't have an understanding of leverage? That you, Lokidog, has happened upon an idea - to exchange the safety of an NMC for dollars AAV - that nyr management has overlooked?

I think, that as others have hit on at times in the past, NHL GMs often take the path of least resistance because they know it won’t be their mess to clean up. Even if you give out an 8yr NMC in your first season as boss, the number of 8 year tenured GMs is 4 with Rob Blake joining the club in April, so let’s call it 5. I think there’s an attitude of I’ll get my man and the next guy will clean up any mess. I also think that virtually every poster on this board thinks Rangers management is incompetent on virtually every other issue but now suddenly take umbrage at this suggestion. I also have this vague, but I’m fairly certain accurate, feeling that almost everyone on this board complains of a country club culture, not holding players accountable and being too soft/letting the players run the show, but again, now suddenly find the suggestion that those things could extend to contract negotiations a stretch too far. C’est la vie. Let’s continue having the most unmovable NMCs and just hope for the best. So silly of me to ask why we have more NMCs than 28 other teams but none that really ostensibly were wielded very tactfully. Fear not, I’ll be on the side of the angels from now on. If I see anyone questioning management’s decision making I’ll set ‘em straight lickity split siting this post as evidence that we fans have no business doing that.

 

[Ruggs225]

Has lav put milller and laf on the same line yet?

I would really love to know why not. Like i would have them stapled at the hip in the hopes Jt miller rubs off on laff.

But then again. Lav is all about the vets

 

[bernmeister]

I see people wanting to bring in Gustafsson, like do we forget he wasn't good at the end of his time here? He had a good stretch when Fox was out but other than that good riddance.

yeah, I had noted this months ago; he was a net plus but 2nd half clearly ran out of gas
based on that, not rational to pursue

 

[EdJovanovski]

At best, he’s Panarin? Will he be able to drive play in the NHL? What happens when time and space is limited in the playoffs?

I know it’s not fair to put that on him yet but we want to build a winner, as in winning a cup.

A diminutive playmaking winger is not at the top of the list when it comes to building a winner imo. It doesn’t mean I want to give him away but I’m definitely inclined to use him for that right piece.

Kravtsov, Kakko, and Lafreniere were all more highly touted than Perreault. We would be over the moon if any of them turned into someone who put up a 120pt season. Very slim chances he becomes anything close to Panarin

 

[mike14]

If Fox is not included on the US Olympic
roster while he’s a healthy willing option I will actually eat several bites from a boiled dress shoe for the forum.

You all are dumbasses if you believe that’ll even be considered

I live in hope that he's not picked. Free rest is always a good thing

 

[Filip Chytil]

I live in hope that he's not picked. Free rest is always a good thing

Fox is playing 8-dimensional chess. He purposely didn't try in the 4 Nations so he wouldn't get picked for the Olympics so he can rest next year.

 

[I Eat Crow]

No it doesn't. McLeod isn't THAT valuable where Gabe would be a reasonable ask.

For McLeod plus Byram, I thought?

 

[MrAlmost]

At best, he’s Panarin? Will he be able to drive play in the NHL? What happens when time and space is limited in the playoffs?

I know it’s not fair to put that on him yet but we want to build a winner, as in winning a cup.

A diminutive playmaking winger is not at the top of the list when it comes to building a winner imo. It doesn’t mean I want to give him away but I’m definitely inclined to use him for that right piece.

Talent is at the top of the list when building a winner. Perreault has talent and frankly the rest of the Rangers system has almost none.

Also, at best he is a RW Panarin. Thats been a comparison for awhile. And a good one. If that happens, he will drive play cause Panarin drives play. And something tells me Perreault will have it when it matters. He always has. The only thing the Rangers need to do is not play him with Brod and Carrick so he can "learn the game".

 

[duhmetreE]

Still the only American defenseman even eating at the same table is Hughes.

Fox and Mcavoy are locks on the right side

 

[Boris Zubov]

LokiDog: "I asked about why we’re giving NMCs specifically, without getting any negotiating leverage in return."

My reply to Loki wasn't about whether or not I think Shesty's contract was good/bad. It was about whether or not the Rangers gave out a NMC in order to get a better deal. Is it not possible that Drury gave out a NMC to get Shesty to sign with the NYR below market value while still being a bad contract?

Shesty isn't the only contract with a NMC either. I pointed out a bunch or others because the argument is about the Rangers being able to get players to sign more team-friendly deals by using NMCs.

I see your logic, but I guess I'm of the mind where there is no world where resetting the market & overpaying a goalie by $3M is a better deal even if we managed to haggle for a contract that went from 12M to 11.5 because we gave him the NMC.

 

[bernmeister]

Id consider that. McLeod is one of the fastest skaters in the league.

Jim Cerny making a good point on twitter about Leetch's injury that put the kibosh on the 92-93 Rangers. Lots of parallel's between this season and that one.

McLeod yes I'd consider
Byram no -- concussion history = too much risk

Byram and McLeod

see above

shut Fox down for the season. Let him heal up, and then this summer get him on an intense workout program + skating with barb underhill. This guy needs to step up his training.

yes, but he just doesn't have the wheels
you can optimize HIS best level, but not enable him to go signif beyond that

translation
slow Fox can be fastER Fox, FOR fox.
Fox can't be a fast guy
no wheels

Hockey sense doesn't max out like a stat in an RPG. I'm willing to bet, if we shut him down and he has a good recovery and a full off-season training, next year will be a bad look for the trade Fox crowd. The only thing you get in front of trading him now is probably just his best years. Just like McDonagh. He's 26. Haha.

Wrong.
he will get slower as he ages AND HE IS ALREADY SLOW
hockey sense can't change that

I don't like to opine on players' fitness bc I see regularly on here that Chris "Jumps out of pools" Kreider is the head of the "country club"

you know he's not

Pretty sure Buffalo says no thank you but Rasmus Dahlin?

Dahlin would be fab if they ever considered it, but I doubt it. highly
you could start w/Fox + LaF and add 2 decent +s just to move the needle SLIGHTLY

Hughes, Hischier, Stutzle, Sanderson, and Thompson were RFA's.

Every guy you mentioned for us was a UFA, except for Fox, and I know you don't want to hear this, but Fox got nowhere near his market value. If Fox hit the market tomorrow, he gets the largest contract for a defenseman in the history of the league.

Ok, New York is a destination, which means lower money. That's fair. It's hard to gauge because salaries went up so quick some time around the pandemic, but I would argue Zibanejad could have gotten more. It was rumored that Panarin could have gotten more. The Trocheck contract is an absolute steal so, idk. Shesterkin had this thing about blowing away any contract for goaltender ever. We gave into it, and you know how I feel about that contract.

As far as a clause goes, the premise is that New York and the Rangers are an attractive destination. Well, then, yeah. They wanna make sure they don't get traded from New York. That tracks with the premise.

If Fox were suddenly full ufa, no strings, he would get top top top $$$ for 2-3 years, MAYBE 4.
But eye test doesn't lie
He's not gonna keep that big a number after when what little speed he has goes entirely

 

[Raspewtin]

Byram is a good Lindgren replacement in that he has a pulse and isn't f***ing dreadful but he's not exactly good either.

What's the appeal here

 

[Boris Zubov]

For McLeod plus Byram, I thought?

Yes that was the proposal, but you don't give up your best prospect in a trade like that, IMO. McLeod might top out as a 2C but probably slots as a 3C in all likelihood. I feel like if you give up your top prospect, it needs to be for an impact player like Brady T.

 

[NYR Viper]

Just sign Gavrikov and Orlov or Maata and be done. Defense revamped.

Gavrikov-Fox
Miller-Borgen
Orlov/Maata-Schneider
Vaak

Depth.