Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

[SnowblindNYR]

And how do you mitigate that risk?

There is no way, sometimes players aren't as good as you think. We might not be the BEST situation for players but at some point you have to look in the mirror. If Laf was as good as billed he would have figured it out by now. And the same people complaining about these guys not getting their chance will probably complain that Bedard has no one to play with. Well if you get drafted by bottom dweller you will likely play with worse players. If you get drafted in the situation Rangers got drafted in you are likely to get less ice time.

I generally make the case in football that yeah QB is super unpredictable you still would rather have that #1 overall pick because you have more options and still are more likely to get a good player. Let me get out of the way that all things being equal the higher the pick the better. My issue is that selling out and just gutting the team in hopes that the star align and you a) are bad enough b) get the right ping pong balls and c) get the player that can carry the team. Plus, as already seen McDavid and Drailsaitl haven't won shit. Even the cream of the crop isn't some guarantee. For what it's worth I can't see those two not winning a cup in their careers. But it's just the extreme example to prove my point. The issue is not that I don't want a top pick, the issue is I don't want to gut the roster and start over because the chances of the team being Detroit or Buffalo are a lot higher than Pittsburgh or Chicago.

 

[Flan the incredible]

Rangers arent trading Panarin.

I feel like Mary Swanson telling Lloyd its not happening.

"So your saying there is a chance"

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

BTW, as great of player as Toews was, I know the Hawks won three cups with him as their top center I feel like he could have been replaced by a number of players and they would have had the same result. I also think Keith (I believe a second round player) was more important to that team. Toews wasn't this Crosby level player that you need a top pick for.

0.87ppg in the playoffs with a Conn Smyth. Don't think a lot of players could step in and do that.

 

[Cusedog]

Trading Panarin is an obvious move but it’s not going to happen. Every trade in this league is telegraphed and the smoke builds for weeks/months before it happens. I have heard not one peep about Panarin being moved that is

Yeah, usually that is the case, but deals fall through and players get injured, so one can hope. The other thing is we will continue to see diminishing returns on players as they further age so I hope Drury can work some deals and reshape the roster.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

0.87ppg in the playoffs with a Conn Smyth. Don't think a lot of players could step in and do that.

I didn't say a lot, I said a number. I think he was closer to prime Tavares than prime Crosby.

 

[mike14]

Rangers arent trading Panarin.

I feel like Mary Swanson telling Lloyd its not happening.

"So your saying there is a chance"

do you mean this season, or at all?
I'm intrigued with what Drury does with him. I can't imagine we'd want to pay him at 35, so do you 'self-rent' him for next season and then walk away with no assets, or do you move him at some point even if it has a short-term negative impact?

 

[Savant]

There is no way, sometimes players aren't as good as you think. We might not be the BEST situation for players but at some point you have to look in the mirror. If Laf was as good as billed he would have figured it out by now. And the same people complaining about these guys not getting their chance will probably complain that Bedard has no one to play with. Well if you get drafted by bottom dweller you will likely play with worse players. If you get drafted in the situation Rangers got drafted in you are likely to get less ice time.

I generally make the case in football that yeah QB is super unpredictable you still would rather have that #1 overall pick because you have more options and still are more likely to get a good player. Let me get out of the way that all things being equal the higher the pick the better. My issue is that selling out and just gutting the team in hopes that the star align and you a) are bad enough b) get the right ping pong balls and c) get the player that can carry the team. Plus, as already seen McDavid and Drailsaitl haven't won shit. Even the cream of the crop isn't some guarantee. For what it's worth I can't see those two not winning a cup in their careers. But it's just the extreme example to prove my point. The issue is not that I don't want a top pick, the issue is I don't want to gut the roster and start over because the chances of the team being Detroit or Buffalo are a lot higher than Pittsburgh or Chicago.

Wrong answer.

There are two ways to mitigate this.

Better infrastructure (POHO/GM/Coach/etc)

More picks. (More picks = more kicks at the can). More picks = More ELCs = More Cost Control = More Resell-able Assets.

Lafreniere and Kakko had their issues but the real lesson there is simply until it’s a Ovechkin level prospect just don’t go wing that high unless you are dropping them into a perfect situation

 

[Flan the incredible]

do you mean this season, or at all?
I'm intrigued with what Drury does with him. I can't imagine we'd want to pay him at 35, so do you 'self-rent' him for next season and then walk away with no assets, or do you move him at some point even if it has a short-term negative impact?

This season and up until the trade deadline for next season..If the Rangers are bad next season they probably ask him to waive at the deadline.

Easiest reason why is that they are not rebuilding. You dont sign a goalie for 11.5 and trade for JT if you are rebuilding. If they rebuild Drury is fired. Drury is going to try and make playoffs and he is going to try to improve the team in the offseason.

 

[mike14]

I didn't say a lot, I said a number. I think he was closer to prime Tavares than prime Crosby.

Prime Tavares is a damn good player. Having a 70pt all-situation center is always a nice to have, especially when you also have the best winger in the game, a 70pt all-situation winger, a number one D, and a goalie who can hold his own.
The thing that really made the Hawks though was that they were getting it done while Toews, Kane and Keith were on their 2nd deals and making good but not huge money. That allowed them to get Hossa, and let them keep guys like Sharp and Saad who were so important for depth

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Wrong answer.

There are two ways to mitigate this.

Better infrastructure (POHO/GM/Coach/etc)

More picks. (More picks = more kicks at the can). More picks = More ELCs = More Cost Control = More Resell-able Assets.

Lafreniere and Kakko had their issues but the real lesson there is simply until it’s a Ovechkin level prospect just don’t go wing that high unless you are dropping them into a perfect situation

If you think that with better infrastructure Laf and Kakko would be guys you're winning a cup with as the #1 or #2 option I don't know what to tell you. Ironically Fox is a lot closer to that who everyone wants to trade. And notice that he had the same infrastructure and actually performed at a top level.

More picks? How many picks do you want? As SA pointed out, everyone is going apeshit over one bad season but are willing to go half a decade plus being bottom of the barrel garbage to get a bunch of top picks. Oh and once again what is being ignored is how many teams just suck for years on end and their top picks don't save them.

This is me personally, I'm not old but I'm not young anymore. I'm not willing to sit through another franchise that looks like the Giants. At least the Giants only play 17 games (used to be 16) and I can just ignore them for like 14 Sundays after they're eliminated in September. A team that plays every other day for a decade sucking would suck. And the miniscule chance that they win a cup in 10 years is not even close to enough to get me interested in a franchise like that.

 

[McRanger92]

Panarin for Rantanen interest anyone? Canes seem to be in the market for a star and Rantanen doesnt seem to love the fit in Carolina.

 

[Vitto79]

So weird that they could sell , bring up kids and actually still make the playoffs

In think they may be better with Othmaan and Berard up

 

[McRanger92]

So weird that they could sell , bring up kids and actually still make the playoffs

In think they may be better with Othmaan and Berard up

For real. It's why the hysterics are tiresome. They just need to stop being beholden to cap hit and experience to dictate ice time. Berard and Othmann should play Tuesday at the Islanders, especially if Kreider continues to be held out.

 

[Savant]

If you think that with better infrastructure Laf and Kakko would be guys you're winning a cup with as the #1 or #2 option I don't know what to tell you. Ironically Fox is a lot closer to that who everyone wants to trade. And notice that he had the same infrastructure and actually performed at a top level.

I didn’t say this. With better infrastructure I think Lafreniere would be dependent on his linemates and Kakko at worst would have gotten more than Will Borgen in a trade. The Fox problem is the Rangers may not have the internal assets to save him.

More picks? How many picks do you want? As SA pointed out, everyone is going apeshit over one bad season but are willing to go half a decade plus being bottom of the barrel garbage to get a bunch of top picks. Oh and once again what is being ignored is how many teams just suck for years on end and their top picks don't save them.

Again the Rangers have advantages over those teams. It’s not about having infinity picks it’s about appropriate asset management, if a guy isn’t worth the extension they are due for, get them out and re-invest

This is me personally, I'm not old but I'm not young anymore. I'm not willing to sit through another franchise that looks like the Giants. At least the Giants only play 17 games (used to be 16) and I can just ignore them for like 14 Sundays after they're eliminated in September. A team that plays every other day for a decade sucking would suck. And the miniscule chance that they win a cup in 10 years is not even close to enough to get me interested in a franchise like that.

I’d rather that than have a season like this with a team in limbo with a locked in roster. This is worse. There’s no plan it’s just spinning down a toilet bowl.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I didn’t say this. With better infrastructure I think Lafreniere would be dependent on his linemates and Kakko at worst would have gotten more than Will Borgen in a trade. The Fox problem is the Rangers may not have the internal assets to save him.

Again the Rangers have advantages over those teams. It’s not about having infinity picks it’s about appropriate asset management, if a guy isn’t worth the extension they are due for, get them out and re-invest

I’d rather that than have a season like this with a team in limbo with a locked in roster. This is worse. There’s no plan it’s just spinning down a toilet bowl.

The Rangers have advantages over those teams but when they use those advantages people scream bloody murder that they prematurely ended a rebuild.

No one is happy with the current team's play or roster. The question is going forward do you want to nuke the roster and pray that everything goes well and we become the Penguins but know that the Red Wings are more realistic or do you want to more strategically do a retool?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't remember which thread I mentioned in but it's funny reading the main boards people talking about Bedard being on a terrible team and that's why he hasn't reached his potentian and meanwhile Rangers fans are up in arms over the lack of opportunities Lafreniere and Kakko got because they were on good teams.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

So weird that they could sell , bring up kids and actually still make the playoffs

In think they may be better with Othmaan and Berard up

I mean this is a nice dream but it’s not aligned to reality

There is no one sitting in the minors right now that is going to fix all the fundamental problems this team has.

 

[NYR Viper]

Does Drury like Vaak as a long term piece or will they consider trading him at the deadline? His QO is what, $1.15-1.2m? Seems reasonable unless they prefer someone else in that spot.

 

[Savant]

The Rangers have advantages over those teams but when they use those advantages people scream bloody murder that they prematurely ended a rebuild.

The Rangers have advantages to keep them out of the suck indefinitely like a Buffalo. The ironic thing here is NOBODY was asking for them to end a rebuild early. They did that on their own

No one is happy with the current team's play or roster. The question is going forward do you want to nuke the roster and pray that everything goes well and we become the Penguins but know that the Red Wings are more realistic or do you want to more strategically do a retool?

They have being retooling this season. You are seeing a retool in live action.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Does Drury like Vaak as a long term piece or will they consider trading him at the deadline? His QO is what, $1.15-1.2m? Seems reasonable unless they prefer someone else in that spot.

No brainer to QO him. At that price he can be 6/7D if they find someone better he can be 7

 

[zlev]

a good GM would be shopping Panarin right now. so it's not happening.

 

[bl02]

Panarin for Rantanen interest anyone? Canes seem to be in the market for a star and Rantanen doesnt seem to love the fit in Carolina.

and give him 13 million plus no way
if we were in a playoff spot maybe as a rental but Panarin really should be traded for a first plus

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The Rangers have advantages to keep them out of the suck indefinitely like a Buffalo. The ironic thing here is NOBODY was asking for them to end a rebuild early. They did that on their own

They have being retooling this season. You are seeing a retool in live action.

It's not the complete retool. We have some fat to cut. JT Miller was a good get even if he's older we got him for pennies on the dollar. Trouba off this team was a good move. Kakko is more subjective but Borgen has indeed improved our defense and Kakko was never anything special over here. There's still moves to be made.

f***, people acting like this retooling is some crazy concept. I remember a completely mid Rangers team in 2011 becoming the best team in the east with the biggest roster change adding a past his prime Brad Richards. Hell, I don't even remember what the roster change happened from 2021 to 2022 other than coach and a Vezina year for Igor.

Yeah, neither team won and maybe both teams had a ceiling and yet that was still closer to winning the cup than praying for a tear down.

 

[Savant]

It's not the complete retool. We have some fat to cut. JT Miller was a good get even if he's older we got him for pennies on the dollar. Trouba off this team was a good move. Kakko is more subjective but Borgen has indeed improved our defense and Kakko was never anything special over here. There's still moves to be made.

f***, people acting like this retooling is some crazy concept. I remember a completely mid Rangers team in 2011 becoming the best team in the east with the biggest roster change adding a past his prime Brad Richards. Hell, I don't even remember what the roster change happened from 2021 to 2022 other than coach and a Vezina year for Igor.

Yeah, neither team won and maybe both teams had a ceiling and yet that was still closer to winning the cup than praying for a tear down.

This is 100% a retool. This is not cutting the fat. This is moving the deck chairs on the Titanic

 

[NickyFotiu]

Crazy to think we are only 2 points out of the playoffs. Yesterday it felt like the season was over.