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Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

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Machinehead said:
Exactly.

Why would those teams trade us a better player than Fox for Fox?

Nobody wants to trade Fox for Matthews (ok, maybe they do, but they also wanna hit Powerball). People want to trade Fox for a bunch of futures.

Pretending that hasn't always been the agenda is deflection.
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Trades get made. A small minority of trades are even but many turn out not to be even in hindsight. Few go in to a trade thinking they are making a losing trade. Sometimes teams prefer quantity over quality. Are you saying you have never seen any trades of a good player for a better player? I asked where you would rank Fox as a NHL player to have some idea what you think is his equivalent value. I do not want to trade Fox for a bunch of futures. If I would trade Fox it would only be for a player that I have very high expectations for in the present.

Not sure who has what agenda but I'm just discussing speculation of our roster possibilities. I'm curious what all people think from ones that want to move CK, Fox, Bread, Lindy, or none of the above. :)
 
NickyFotiu said:
Trades get made. A small minority of trades are even but many turn out not to be even in hindsight. Few go in to a trade thinking they are making a losing trade. Sometimes teams prefer quantity over quality. Are you saying you have never seen any trades of a good player for a better player? I asked where you would rank Fox as a NHL player to have some idea what you think is his equivalent value. I do not want to trade Fox for a bunch of futures. If I would trade Fox it would only be for a player that I have very high expectations for in the present.

Not sure who has what agenda but I'm just discussing speculation of our roster possibilities. I'm curious what all people think from ones that want to move CK, Fox, Bread, Lindy, or none of the above. :)
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I'm not.

I have absolutely no curiosity as to what people who want to trade Fox think.

This isn't X. I don't need to treat absolute nonsense as equal discourse.
 
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SnowblindNYR said:
You really think that poor performance in this tiny sample of games with teammates you've never played with before is something you can extrapolate any kind of information from? You're right Kreider is better than Fox, Miller, and Trocheck. Great take.
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All I said was the guy that gets the most shit around here has made more of an impact than the three other guys that played more games. And he's better than Trocheck.
 
NickyFotiu said:
I do not look at metrics much but I do believe Fox has been very good in his career overall. What about today? Mika was good for years. So was CK. Bread was great last season. This season all have declined.

I asked where Fox was ranked as a NHL player not a defensemen today because forwards are traded for Dmen and vice versa. Lets go back to defensemen this season for discussion sake. Do you feel Fox has been top 5 this season? Do you feel he has been top 5 in the Nations Tournament?
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He's tied for 5th in scoring this year for defenseman. He's clearly a top 20 player in the NHL. Id take him over Bouchard and Theodore without hesitation. Werenski is my Norris pick so I'd put him ahead this year but he's not been great the years prior. The only 2 defenseman in the league you can say are clearly better than Fox are Makar and Quinn and it still fluctuates from year to year.
 
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Would like to see some moves of the whatever guys like Vesey sooner rather than later. Leave some time to get into the details of a Kreider trade. Time and time again deadlines come and go and teams that had a handful of assets to move don't get them all moved because they wanted to wait till last day on each one and got their hands tied up.
 
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McRanger92 said:
He's tied for 5th in scoring this year for defenseman. He's clearly a top 20 player in the NHL. Id take him over Bouchard and Theodore without hesitation. Werenski is my Norris pick so I'd put him ahead this year but he's not been great the years prior. The only 2 defenseman in the league you can say are clearly better than Fox are Makar and Quinn and it still fluctuates from year to year.
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I like you as a poster and I appreciate your reply. I'd like to respond but I do not want to anger anyone so I'm just going to drop it. :)
 
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NickyFotiu said:
Okay I did not mean to upset anyone.
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You didn't upset anyone.

To me it's not serious. I'm not going to treat it like it's serious.

What gets me upset is people trying to make those defending Fox (you know, normal fans) out to be the bad guy.

"Fox Mafia." Give me an entire f***ing break. Next they're gonna tell me that people who like to breathe are the Oxygen Mafia.
 
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NickyFotiu said:
I like you as a poster and I appreciate your reply. I'd like to respond but I do not want to anger anyone so I'm just going to drop it. :)
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No problem here, I have no ax to grind and the respect is mutual. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just see trading Fox as something it's highly highly unlikely that we would come out better for it. We need more on defense, not less. Not directed at you either but I'm not seeing this narrative that we can't criticize Fox. Personally that seems like a defense mechanism for people who havent thought out the realistic consequences of such a move. Fox needs to improve his conditioning and stop deferring to teammates like the veterans on this team have done for years and continue to do.
 
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Machinehead said:
You didn't upset anyone.

To me it's not serious. I'm not going to treat it like it's serious.

What gets me upset is people trying to make those defending Fox (you know, normal fans) out to be the bad guy.

"Fox Mafia." Give me an entire f***ing break. Next they're gonna tell me that people who like to breathe are the Oxygen Mafia.
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I do not think anyone defending Fox nor any Ranger player is a bad guy. I like when people support our players.

Trade talks are natural for sports fans but nobody wants to trade one of their favorites. NY fans used to discuss trading guys like Dimagio and Ted Williams. Mantle and Mays. I wanted to keep Zooks, MCD, and JT.

Years ago Paul Coffey was available and rumored to be coming to the NY Rangers in a package including James Patrick. I was 100% for that trade. I thought it was a no brainer trade in the Rangers favor. To show you that sometimes players do not even know best a NY Rangers teammate of Patrick who was one of my favorite players told Espo not to do it. He said Patrick was better defensively and playing as well as the top guys. I still can't believe that player told Espo that. Of course that side of the story is coming from Espo so there might be more to it.
 
Trade Fox for futures
IMG_8437.jpeg
 
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Machinehead said:
Ok, assuming he's not, that puts him where? Third-best in the league? Oh no!

That's not worth $9.5m? It's probably worth close to $16m.

This is what I mean when I constantly harp on the perceptions of salary being stuck 10+ years ago.
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He's definitely not playing like a top10 Dman this year, top 15 maybe?
He's getting slower and can't defend as well. He's great offensively, but not as dynamic as his first few years.

I don't understand why everyone who's not playing well can get criticized and their salary brought up, but god forbid you mention Fox as underachieving and you get most people taking their pitch forks out...weird...
 
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Graves94 said:
He's definitely not playing like a top10 Dman this year, top 15 maybe?
He's getting slower and can't defend as well. He's great offensively, but not as dynamic as his first few years.

I don't understand why everyone who's not playing well can get criticized and their salary brought up, but god forbid you mention Fox as underachieving and you get most people taking their pitch forks out...weird...
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It's not weird. People want to trade Adam Fox. That's weird.

It's not criticism. It's multiple posters saying he should be traded.
 
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