Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[Leonardo87]

Hey Folks, won’t be able to make a GDT today will be traveling. If you do one just ask you put some effort into it , thanks!

 

[bleedblue94]

If Montreal waived Dvorak to save money NYR would probably pick him up ?

Also Jones has value . No way he’d clear waivers o

Jones for dvo at 50 percent?

At one point dvo would have been a great 3c here but I'm unsure where his game is right now with all the injuries.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If they can’t beat a malkin and Crosby less Pens team they should just quit.

No need for them to hang around and look for an excuse to keep wolfshit55 who will inevitably just kill them. Just sell your rentals during 4 nations at that point and start to reset the deck.

 

[bleedblue94]

Chychrun scored his 14th goal tonight for the GW. He's going to break 20 goals and make a f*** load of money in the offseason (more than we can afford certainly.)

Lindgren has 12 goals in his life. There were people here who tried to argue that Lindgren, even after last year, was a better fit for this team than Chychrun.

Who argued lindgren was a better fit? I don't think I saw anyone argue that. Plenty argued that based on chychrun's injury history and the supposed cost to acquire him it wasnt worth it. I'm not sure where this narrative has formed that people actively don't want lindgren moved, the question has always been if you move him who are you bringing in and what are you paying for that player in a trade? Nyr isn't exactly flush with assets and I'm not interested at all in trading Gabe, especially since high IQ players are something this org has lacked for seemingly decades and he has a work ethic and skill to go with that iq

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Who argued he was a better fit? I don't think I saw anyone argue that. Plenty argued that based on chychrun's injury history and the supposed cost to acquire him it wasnt worth it. I'm not sure where this narrative has formed that people actively don't want lindgren moved, the question has always been if you move him who are you bringing in and what are you paying for that player in a trade? Nyr isn't exactly flush with assets and I'm not interested at all in trading Gabe, especially since high IQ players is something this org has lacked for seemingly decades and he has a work ethic and skill to go with that iq

interesting because the very player we’re discussing here didn’t return anything close to Perreault.

There absolutely were people who thought Lindgren was a better fit because of the “role” he plays.

It didn’t have to be chychrun though. Detroit gave up a 2nd to move Walman and that would have been an upgrade plus an asset. Signed for less than Lindgren as well and they can get him now if they want to give up more than they really should or would have needed to over the summer.

It’s been rehashed a billion times, it’s not hard to upgrade on this player because almost anyone would be an upgrade. They don’t even have to get rid of him to upgrade on him, they just have to not play him and play someone else.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

I would love to get a legit 3C and a defensively responsible replacement for Lindgren who can move the puck and shoot from the point. We have no Defensemen with dangerous slapshots from the point. Fox and Miller just throw wristers for deflections on the PP. We need a one-time threat from the point to give Zibby Panarin Miller more space. Teams scouted us very well and pressure the hell out of the forwards because they're the only ones with shots good enough to score.

 

[bernmeister]

If Montreal waived Dvorak to save money NYR would probably pick him up ?

Also Jones has value . No way he’d clear waivers

do not want Dvorak
minimize outside vets
develop internal youth

If Dvorak has that little value/makes it to waivers, the Rangers should absolutely get him. Vesey for Dvorak. The 2 times Dvorak has played on a decent team, he was a solid 3rd line center.

I'd prefer a 5th or 6th for vesey
Again do not block a roster spot for Berard or Oth or similar
howev, Dvorak may be less useless than JV at this pt

Kreider blowing past everyone on the ice on that goal was comical. No one had a prayer of keeping up with him.

Again makes me ask the question, where the f*** has that been?

see below

Stop with the back excuse.

see below

K'Andre is the one they really have to make a decision on. Cuylle should get a nice raise but he shouldn't break the bank. He's basically having a 40 point season. The Rangers can bridge him and kick that can down the road a couple years and probably should.

Rangers could also fill in some spots from their Hartford team. Othmann, Berard are not far away and Sykora and Chmelar also doing well. Will the Rangers re-sign Quick or will they keep a goalie spot open for Dylan Garand and maybe pick up another Louis Domingue hold the fort type?

All these potential additions will save $'s on our cap. Rempe, Edstrom, Kaliyev, Vaakanainen and Brannstrom----all RFA's. They're all young NHL players. None of them should be high cap hits.

imo Brannstrom was required take back
has less value than Jones
trade for 7th now if we can
do not sign

I hear you but I am not buying it. If he steps on the ice for Team USA then all the injury excuses need to stop.

see below

I 1000% do not think CK should play for Team USA. He has already been on our injured list 2-3 times this season. I wish the injury was an excuse. The discomfort shows on his face. I saw him go against a guy 50 pounds lighter on the boards a couple of games ago and he had no strength. Wayne said there were some times as a Ranger where he had problems tying his own skates but he still played.

this in support of see below

Imagine Chyrchrun - Fox

Imagine how much room Fox would have to operate when defending teams actually had to worry about his partner.

This team is Pejorative Slured as hell

do not want Chych
want to sell high on Fox

Jones for dvo at 50 percent?

At one point dvo would have been a great 3c here but I'm unsure where his game is right now with all the injuries.

prefer Jones
bold is a good pt

------------
see below =
fug all the bullshit from the human hypocrites who expect Kreider to function like a machine that never breaks down

who among you never inadvertently fell asleep in the wrong position, perhaps you were so dead tired you just plotzed not realizing something as innocuous as a remote was under you. And you were so tired, you slept thru it. Then when you woke up, your back was in agony, and that was on/off for a couple of days.

Fuggin hypocrites
1. It is likely he DOES have a back problem, if he didn't he couldn't get away with saying so this long.

2. That being the case and given this is an obvious reality of a back and forth 2 way where there is aggravation, followed by treatment, followed by reaggravation, repeat ad infinitum, it should be obvious to a blind man that best approach is sit, but second best is sit, but NOT go full tilt except in spots where the situation permits it



--------------------
Long term keep ck thru next season, assuming he recovers, he will take less on 1 yr contracts if he can stay, that is optimal roster mgmt
NO, NO ONE IS PAYING TOP DOLLAR FOR HIM NOW AS HE CURRENTLY IS
BEND BUCKLE AND BREAK IN CAPITUATION TO THAT REALITY

 

[Vitto79]

do not want Dvorak
minimize outside vets
develop internal youth


I'd prefer a 5th or 6th for vesey
Again do not block a roster spot for Berard or Oth or similar
howev, Dvorak may be less useless than JV at this pt


see below


see below


imo Brannstrom was required take back
has less value than Jones
trade for 7th now if we can
do not sign


see below


this in support of see below


do not want Chych
want to sell high on Fox


prefer Jones
bold is a good pt

------------
see below =
fug all the bullshit from the human hypocrites who expect Kreider to function like a machine that never breaks down

who among you never inadvertently fell asleep in the wrong position, perhaps you were so dead tired you just plotzed not realizing something as innocuous as a remote was under you. And you were so tired, you slept thru it. Then when you woke up, your back was in agony, and that was on/off for a couple of days.

Fuggin hypocrites
1. It is likely he DOES have a back problem, if he didn't he couldn't get away with saying so this long.

2. That being the case and given this is an obvious reality of a back and forth 2 way where there is aggravation, followed by treatment, aggravation, followed by treatment,

Who’s a internal C
Bo G ?

 

[bernmeister]

Who’s a internal C
Bo G ?

we immediately have
jtm
tro
Brodz
and Rempe

as immediate current options

if we are looking to add pivot specifically, not just F [W] we may consider
Bo, yes for someone more immediate and experienced but I'm also thinking BMB to showcase, get first assessment

But beyond that, Roo

 

[MrAlmost]

do not want Dvorak
minimize outside vets
develop internal youth


I'd prefer a 5th or 6th for vesey
Again do not block a roster spot for Berard or Oth or similar
howev, Dvorak may be less useless than JV at this pt


see below


see below


imo Brannstrom was required take back
has less value than Jones
trade for 7th now if we can
do not sign


see below


this in support of see below


do not want Chych
want to sell high on Fox


prefer Jones
bold is a good pt

------------
see below =
fug all the bullshit from the human hypocrites who expect Kreider to function like a machine that never breaks down

who among you never inadvertently fell asleep in the wrong position, perhaps you were so dead tired you just plotzed not realizing something as innocuous as a remote was under you. And you were so tired, you slept thru it. Then when you woke up, your back was in agony, and that was on/off for a couple of days.

Fuggin hypocrites
1. It is likely he DOES have a back problem, if he didn't he couldn't get away with saying so this long.

2. That being the case and given this is an obvious reality of a back and forth 2 way where there is aggravation, followed by treatment, followed by reaggravation, repeat ad infinitum, it should be obvious to a blind man that best approach is sit, but second best is sit, but NOT go full tilt except in spots where the situation permits it



--------------------
Long term keep ck thru next season, assuming he recovers, he will take less on 1 yr contracts if he can stay, that is optimal roster mgmt
NO, NO ONE IS PAYING TOP DOLLAR FOR HIM NOW AS HE CURRENTLY IS
BEND BUCKLE AND BREAK IN CAPITUATION TO THAT REALITY

Dvorak is better than Vesey. And he plays center, which we need. Othmann and Berard play wing. Dvorak wouldn't block them. It's actually literally Vesey blocking them.

 

[17futurecap]

I wonder if he looks to move Garand this summer. What’s the upgrade of going from Quick or whoever they sign as a backup UFA to using Garand as your backup compared to what Garand returns in a trade?

Askarov returned a first round pick and David Edstrom who was a late first round pick. I don’t think Garand would get that much, but I would be looking at teams with multiple first round picks as options.

Calgary, Philly, Chicago, Columbus , Penguins (if we aren’t in top 13).

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

we immediately have
jtm
tro
Brodz
and Rempe

as immediate current options

if we are looking to add pivot specifically, not just F [W] we may consider
Bo, yes for someone more immediate and experienced but I'm also thinking BMB to showcase, get first assessment

But beyond that, Roo

If your bottom 2 Cs are Brodz and Rempe, the team is going to get caved in and lose more than they win.

 

[bernmeister]

Dvorak is better than Vesey. And he plays center, which we need. Othmann and Berard play wing. Dvorak wouldn't block them. It's actually literally Vesey blocking them.

Agree Dvorak better than Vesey just saying would rather roll w/the 4 pivots I specified and give max flexibility to roster spot for youth
and avoid win now trap
as opposed to whatev min gain we get w/Dvorak

 

[noncents]

JT is absolutely a high end 1C

common wisdom holds that a Cup contender needs 1C, 1D, and G. If we now have these, what are the ideal moves to serve that goal? Let's look to next season.

First things first: you need an LD for Fox. We've been over it ad nauseam. Upgrade Lindgren to someone who can skate it out, pass it out, and withstand some duress in his own zone. Maybe it's a UFA overpay. Maybe it's another hockey deal. It just has to happen.

Forwards are more interesting. If Lavi remains coach, Mika probably stays at RW. PL tends to stick to his first instinct, especially if there's a modicum of improvement or success.

But what serves the team best? Can Mika still handle pivot duties, as a 2C? Or if he finds success as RW1 does it make sense to keep him there on the wing?

The dirty secret for this year is how poor Trocheck has been. To be honest, he also might be better suited to the wing in the near future. Top 6 C, however, are not easy to find. All the moreso if Zib moves to wing full time.

The top9 wings are the tough part. Panarin, Lafreniere, Kreider, Cuylle, and then a bunch of kids. You hope to get something good from Berard, Othmann, maybe Perreault and Sykora. But a win-now team will need some more stability somewhere, whether it's on the wing or at C.

Ultimately, I believe they will need to move 1 higher value contract to make room for LD1, K'Andre, Cuylle, and a stabilizing vet C/W. I think it has to be Kreider. He just hasn't been good enough. Also, even putting protection clause aside, I think without Panarin they just don't have the firepower. He's the best passer and the best shot on the team. He produces.

Panarin Miller Zibanejad
Cuylle Trocheck Lafreniere
Edstrom _____ Berard
Vesey Carrick Rempe

_____ Fox
Miller Borgen
Vaak Schneider

 

[bernmeister]

I wonder if he looks to move Garand this summer. What’s the upgrade of going from Quick or whoever they sign as a backup UFA to using Garand as your backup compared to what Garand returns in a trade?

Askarov returned a first round pick and David Edstrom who was a late first round pick. I don’t think Garand would get that much, but I would be looking at teams with multiple first round picks as options.

Calgary, Philly, Chicago, Columbus , Penguins (if we aren’t in top 13).

Garand = real enuf deal and should be kept, not sold cheap while NHL value w/no experience reduces max return
@RangerBoy and I and others are right
sell high on shesty now

 

[bernmeister]

If your bottom 2 Cs are Brodz and Rempe, the team is going to get caved in and lose more than they win.

your op and you are entitled to it
that said
you were wrong about Rempe and you are wrong about Brodz

and again, stop w/win now
go to play that develops youth

 

[HonestGabe]

What would Bjugstad cost?

Having a down year in Utah. I know we were linked to him in the past but a 3rd line of Kreider Bjugstad Cuylle could really wear teams down below the dots

 

[McRanger92]

What would Bjugstad cost?

Having a down year in Utah. I know we were linked to him in the past but a 3rd line of Kreider Bjugstad Cuylle could really wear teams down below the dots

Shouldnt be much. Would think his size is an asset tot he rangers after just losing Edstrom for the year potentially. Id like to get a D-man from Utah too if possible.

 

[noncents]

common wisdom holds that a Cup contender needs 1C, 1D, and G. If we now have these, what are the ideal moves to serve that goal? Let's look to next season.

First things first: you need an LD for Fox. We've been over it ad nauseam. Upgrade Lindgren to someone who can skate it out, pass it out, and withstand some duress in his own zone. Maybe it's a UFA overpay. Maybe it's another hockey deal. It just has to happen.

Forwards are more interesting. If Lavi remains coach, Mika probably stays at RW. PL tends to stick to his first instinct, especially if there's a modicum of improvement or success.

But what serves the team best? Can Mika still handle pivot duties, as a 2C? Or if he finds success as RW1 does it make sense to keep him there on the wing?

The dirty secret for this year is how poor Trocheck has been. To be honest, he also might be better suited to the wing in the near future. Top 6 C, however, are not easy to find. All the moreso if Zib moves to wing full time.

The top9 wings are the tough part. Panarin, Lafreniere, Kreider, Cuylle, and then a bunch of kids. You hope to get something good from Berard, Othmann, maybe Perreault and Sykora. But a win-now team will need some more stability somewhere, whether it's on the wing or at C.

Ultimately, I believe they will need to move 1 higher value contract to make room for LD1, K'Andre, Cuylle, and a stabilizing vet C/W. I think it has to be Kreider. He just hasn't been good enough. Also, even putting protection clause aside, I think without Panarin they just don't have the firepower. He's the best passer and the best shot on the team. He produces.

Panarin Miller Zibanejad
Cuylle Trocheck Lafreniere
Edstrom _____ Berard
Vesey Carrick Rempe

_____ Fox
Miller Borgen
Vaak Schneider

The alternative here is to run 8-93-16-39 down the middle. Imo this makes a lot more sense if Perreault is able to step into a 2nd line role at some point next year:

Panarin Miller Lafreniere
Cuylle Zibanejad Perreault
Othmann Trocheck Edström
Berard Carrick Rempe

Feel free to flip 13/50 here but i think both 1st and 2nd line have a mix of puck retrieval/heavy forecheck, playmaking, and shooting. Laf needs to figure out not only how to hit the net more consistently, but how to get shots off. The release isn't even close to elite. (This is the kind of targeted development that I'm not sure NYR implements with young players).

You'll also notice I've bumped Edström to the 3rd line in both versions of the lineup. I really think he'd be able to grow into a role that demands a little more offense. I also think that he's a natural fit for a PK role once Kreider and Smith are gone. Edström should be a key depth piece for this team moving forward. I'm entirely skeptical that the FO and coaching staff will encourage his development so aggressively, but I was sure he wouldn't break camp with the team and he's been a mainstay. His speed, size, and physicality are exactly what I see as being the ideal "Drury-type" F.

 

[NYR Viper]

I could see Christian Dvorak if the price is so minimal it doesn't really matter

 

[zlev]

zegras is 23

At the end of his age 22 season Mika had scored a total of 151 points over 281 games.
At the end of his age 22 season. Zegras had scored 154 points over 211 games.

Mika's career high in those years was 21g, 30a for 51 points.
Zegras 23g 42a for 65 points

People forget that there is a reason Ottawa traded a young top 10 picked center.

zibanejad always had pretty good analytics despite not producing. zegas' analytics look like lindgrens.

 

[UnparalledPark]

The alternative here is to run 8-93-16-39 down the middle. Imo this makes a lot more sense if Perreault is able to step into a 2nd line role at some point next year:

Panarin Miller Lafreniere
Cuylle Zibanejad Perreault
Othmann Trocheck Edström
Berard Carrick Rempe

Feel free to flip 13/50 here but i think both 1st and 2nd line have a mix of puck retrieval/heavy forecheck, playmaking, and shooting. Laf needs to figure out not only how to hit the net more consistently, but how to get shots off. The release isn't even close to elite. (This is the kind of targeted development that I'm not sure NYR implements with young players).

You'll also notice I've bumped Edström to the 3rd line in both versions of the lineup. I really think he'd be able to grow into a role that demands a little more offense. I also think that he's a natural fit for a PK role once Kreider and Smith are gone. Edström should be a key depth piece for this team moving forward. I'm entirely skeptical that the FO and coaching staff will encourage his development so aggressively, but I was sure he wouldn't break camp with the team and he's been a mainstay. His speed, size, and physicality are exactly what I see as being the ideal "Drury-type" F.

I agree with your four centers for next year. Obvious choices. The way to get Laf shooting quicker is to put him at LW where he belongs. Let Perrault marinate in Hartford for a year. I like Edstrom but he’s barely a 4th liner.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

zegras is 23

At the end of his age 22 season Mika had scored a total of 151 points over 281 games.
At the end of his age 22 season. Zegras had scored 154 points over 211 games.

Mika's career high in those years was 21g, 30a for 51 points.
Zegras 23g 42a for 65 points

People forget that there is a reason Ottawa traded a young top 10 picked center.

mika was steadily improving every year. Zegras otoh has fallen off pretty drastically from his 65 point season

 

[NYR Viper]

Let's assume for a moment that there is a deal on the table that is equal in value for both Cozens or Zegras. Who would you pick and why?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Let's assume for a moment that there is a deal on the table that is equal in value for both Cozens or Zegras. Who would you pick and why?

cozens because basically every player the sabres trade win a cup almost immediately after leaving