Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[Ail]

Here's what drives me crazy about all of the people that want to blow up the team.

They assume close to perfect trades where we get top value for our players. First of all, usually we don't. Second of all, one trade like the McDonagh/Miller trade can set your whole franchise backwards. Maybe Miller is not a great example because he was young but we didn't even get enough for McDonagh. But point is you want trades but only trades the Rangers win. Draft picks that don't bust. Meanwhile we had 2 top two picks in 2019 and 2020 and ended up with Kakko and Lafreniere. This yearning for a complete rebuild and there's probably a better chance we have nothing to show for it like we did last rebuild than we become the new Penguins or Lightning. BTW, two of the Lightning's best players were a late first rounder (Vasi) and a second rounder (Kuch). Point was also not a first rounder. Blackhawks had Keith, Penguins had Letang.

So because they might not come out of a rebuild a better team you would rather keep delaying the inevitable? What is the road forward to make this team better without blowing it up?

 

[GAGLine]

He could try to load up on vets, but with what cap space? Unless you get a team to take Kreider or Zibanejad off your hands for free, the Rangers are looking at having minimal cap space while still needing to sign or trade for a top pairing LD. Is the plan to trade Kreider, and then go with 3 rookies on the wings next season in Berard, Perreault, and Othmann? I honestly don’t see Mika being traded, his contract is too onerous and his play has been that poor. Even if you could move him, there’s going to be a hefty cap hit coming back in return.

I don't know, but as soon as he had some cap space, he spent it. First Igor, then Borgen, and now Miller. If he trades Kreider or Zib, he'll probably just spend that cap space on other high-priced vets.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So because they might not come out of a rebuild a better team you would rather keep delaying the inevitable? What is the road forward to make this team better without blowing it up?

The Washington Capitals didn't blow it up. Vegas never blew it up. The Panthers were Presidents' Trophy winners and barely sneaked into a playoff spot and went to the Cup Final and won it the following year. If it were up to this board Florida would have sold off. I would trade Kreider, Lindgren, and if I can Mika. That's not blowing it up. But it's not nothing.

 

[SA16]

The Washington Capitals didn't blow it up. Vegas never blew it up. The Panthers were Presidents' Trophy winners and barely sneaked into a playoff spot and went to the Cup Final and won it the following year. If it were up to this board Florida would have sold off. I would trade Kreider, Lindgren, and if I can Mika. That's not blowing it up. But it's not nothing.

Most of the teams that "blow it up" stay terrible for a very very long time. Even the successes generally take 10+ years which is hard to even call a success because if you took that long to win anything how do you know a different method wouldn't have yielded better/the same results?

 

[will1066]

People want to dump some guys for nothing with few replacements or cap relief in place. Professional GMs do not do that. Its a tough puzzle Drury is trying to glue together. This season with no cap room he added Carrick, Smith, Val, Brogen and JT. He also got rid of Goody and Troubas contracts. Feels like he has been trying to thread a needle. More deals for CK, Zibs, and Lindy would be ideal if we can add some real players/prospects/draft picks in return. Otherwise some may happen after July.

Let it be reminded that he has jettisoned players to half of the Pacific Division already

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

"In crucial game 7's, you'll see the Rangers outworked."

Rangers are 2-1 in game 7's with this core lmao including a blow out win against Carolina. Their "softness" had nothing to do with the one that they lost because that was against a team that was soft as f***.

Lazy blanket analysis is so f***ing stupid.

What would you do differently if you were chris drury?

Boot Lindgren to Eris.

Honestly, that was a clear, clear, clear spot to upgrade after 2022. The shelf life on this player has always been one that was going to be pretty short and his value was never higher than it was then.

That remains the biggest sore spot on this team and it was one even before WS55's game went down the tubes.

Moving on from Trouba and Goodrow was a step in the right direction but a guy who was and still is a much bigger issue than either of those players still exists and is still eating big minutes.

 

[will1066]

My god does this Finnish defence look awful

I think you can make the argument that Finland is very much competitive with the forward group and goaltending, but man oh man.... It's going to be like Ristolainen and Mikkola in the first pair.

Mikkola's name is etched in a Stanley Cup.

Adam Fox wrote his name on a plastic party cup at his engagement party.

 

[eco's bones]

NO
don't give Mika ANY wiggle room to stay a min more than is nec

shut him and Lindgren down NOW

IF max retained, then we pay Smith in lieu of 4 6ths to retain another 1.75 x 4 [+this yr] to a 3rd team
Zib at a net of 2.5 per to a team like the Isles works
AND JUST GIVE HIM AWAY

Lindy his value is now not 5th but 6th trending to cond 7th
I DON'T FUGGIN CARE

and for the nth time, stop w/Kreider hate
let him heal and play w/some decent playersb-> THEN re-evaluate

Back to Kreider for a minute. None of us including you actually know how bad his back is or isn't. We're not in the locker room or around the team. He's still playing 17/18 minutes a game though. If it's that bad he shouldn't be playing at all. Heal and play? what is that? If he needs to heal he should just heal.....and not play. Most games he's been pretty much useless.

Also you're wanting to scapegoat Mika for Chris's lack of production. But when he went on Chytil's line he didn't produce then either. Mika's been atrocious---Kreider's had a horrible year though too.

By the way this is not hate. I've been a fan of Chris Kreider's since he joined the team. Arguably he's been my favorite player for quite a while. Always at least in the top 2/3. I've also liked Mika a lot but they've both been terrible this year and pretty much everyone sees that it's both---not just one---but you.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

"In crucial game 7's, you'll see the Rangers outworked."

Rangers are 2-1 in game 7's with this core lmao including a blow out win against Carolina. Their "softness" had nothing to do with the one that they lost because that was against a team that was soft as f***.

Lazy blanket analysis is so f***ing stupid.




Boot Lindgren to Eris.

Honestly, that was a clear, clear, clear spot to upgrade after 2022. The shelf life on this player has always been one that was going to be pretty short and his value was never higher than it was then.

That remains the biggest sore spot on this team and it was one even before WS55's game went down the tubes.

Moving on from Trouba and Goodrow was a step in the right direction but a guy who was and still is a much bigger issue than either of those players still exists and is still eating big minutes.

The good news is even Brooks who has defended him thinks that Lindgren isn't long for the team.

 

[eco's bones]

CK looked so weak physically yesterday. Its obvious something is not right. Does anyone else think he should opt out of the tournament?

If he's hurting?---absolutely he should drop out.

This tournament doesn't mean shit to me anyway. He's paid by the Rangers to help us win games and if he's hurt he should take a rest.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

If he's hurting?---absolutely he should drop out.

This tournament doesn't mean shit to me anyway. He's paid by the Rangers to help us win games and if he's hurt he should take a rest.

I don't get the 4 Nations Tournament. It's an all star game + nationalism. Players don't care that much about a meaningless All Star game, but having the opportunity to represent your country in a meaningless game and wow it's so important!

 

[will1066]

This kreider is hurt stuff is nonsense. He's not hurt to the point that he needs to shut down. He has shown he can still get on his horse if he wants to. He's not able to sustain it, that's all. He is old. You're asking an old player to turn back time.

 

[eco's bones]

This is not a locker room issue. I do not believe it ever was. That is and was an excuse. Look at the playoff losses in the last 3 seasons. In crucial game 7's you will see a team that was out worked. Bread, CK, Zibs, and Fox are your top 4. Those 4 have a soft, soft, and softer approach to the game. They set the tone for they whole team. Now you have age playing a factor with Bread, CK and Zibs. CK is obviously playing hurt. Laf is back to inconsistent efforts. You have Fox having had knee injuries. We no longer have guys like Copp, Tank, Kane, and Mikkola as depth players. People are missing the real picture. This is not a locker room or coaching issue. This is a player issue. The only exception I will say is with Housley. I think he has done a bad job.

We were soft against Florida. The Panthers owned all the corners and both net fronts. They owned the walls. We lost at least 3/4's of the puck battles. You need skill but you also need bigger bodies who will go into the combat areas. JT can provide the skill and size, physicality and the attitude but we need more than just him.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

We were soft against Florida. The Panthers owned all the corners and both net fronts. They owned the walls. We lost at least 3/4's of the puck battles. You need skill but you also need bigger bodies who will go into the combat areas. JT can provide the skill and size, physicality and the attitude but we need more than just him.

I think there's more than one way to skin a cat. I don't think you need to be able to go blow for blow with Florida physically. You can be good at moving the puck out of the zone. Edmonton wasn't a physical team and they came a whisker away from beating Florida. I know they have McDrai but the point is play style. Just beat their forecheck in other ways. Ironically I think our defense now would have been less likely to get hemmed in than last year with Trouba gone.

 

[Overcast]

We found Chris’ burner account ya’ll

Drury's less delusional.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't get 4 Nations Tournament. It's an all star game + nationalism. Players don't care that much about a meaningless All Star game, but having the opportunity to represent your country in a meaningless game and wow it's so important!

Most players do care about going to the all star game but it's the most meaningless game of the year and IMO a waste of time to watch. But yeah I look at this tournament basically as nonsense for the reason you give and for someone who's supposedly struggling with an injury and whose team is fighting for its life....that player should opt out. As a Rangers fan I didn't come into this season worrying at all about what team was going to win this tournament.....I came in hoping the Rangers would have another big year and hopefully win a Cup.

 

[Ail]

The Washington Capitals didn't blow it up. Vegas never blew it up. The Panthers were Presidents' Trophy winners and barely sneaked into a playoff spot and went to the Cup Final and won it the following year. If it were up to this board Florida would have sold off. I would trade Kreider, Lindgren, and if I can Mika. That's not blowing it up. But it's not nothing.

What are you getting for those players that makes this team better now and doesn't lean further towards a rebuild? All 3 of those players are worthless according to Ranger fans but somehow they'll be traded for valuable assets? Whatever they get for them will push this team closer to rebuild/retool than contention.

 

[eco's bones]

I think there's more than one way to skin a cat. I don't think you need to be able to go blow for blow with Florida physically. You can be good at moving the puck out of the zone. Edmonton wasn't a physical team and they came a whisker away from beating Florida. I know they have McDrai but the point is play style. Just beat their forecheck in other ways. Ironically I think our defense now would have been less likely to get hemmed in than last year with Trouba gone.

There is more than one way for sure. But....you're not going to win if your team is being physically dominated in all areas of the ice. The Rangers had a super difficult time getting on the inside of the Panthers D and to their net. Panthers had no problem at all. The Panthers sometimes did three/four shift changes deep in our end just pounding the hell out of our D and driving the net continually. That the Rangers lost two/three of them by a single goal was testimony to Igor's standing on his head throughout the series....not because they were playing well. They were completely outclassed and physically dominated.

As for how the Oilers played against them I can't say. My season ended when the Rangers were knocked out and IMO it was a demoralizing experience and at which point the last thing I wanted to watch was more hockey.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

We were soft against Florida. The Panthers owned all the corners and both net fronts. They owned the walls. We lost at least 3/4's of the puck battles. You need skill but you also need bigger bodies who will go into the combat areas. JT can provide the skill and size, physicality and the attitude but we need more than just him.

This is diagnosing the on ice stuff correctly with out diagnosing the cause.

It didn't really have much to do with the board stuff as much as it did with the D's inability to move the puck out of their own end. Lots of failed exits and half assed clears that just ended up becoming reload plays. Started to become a bit of a thing towards the end of the Carolina series too but they were less potent and the Rangers had a 3 game cushion to work with.

Even then, almost everything Florida scored in that series 5v5 was.... off the rush. Even with all of their extended zone time (and there was a ton of it) nothing really came of it. It's far from ideal (you aren't scoring if you don't have the puck) and if you let the other team have enough time with the puck they're going to generate quality chances eventually (and they did) but by in large they actually defended all of this mostly well.

This is Florida's goal breakdown in the series.

G1 - goal 1 off the rush, goal 2... kind of off the rush but it was a rush shot that turned into a broken play/own goal situation. ENG to seal it.
G2 - a single PPG
G3 - 2 PPG, a goal off of the cycle and 1 off of a face off.
G4- goal off the rush, 2 PPG
G5- 2 goals off the rush, ENG
G6 - 2 goals off the rush.

In the end thats.

6 goals off the rush
1 goal off of sustained zone time
1 goal off of a face off win.

6 of their 8 goals 5v5 came off of the rush.

They also had 4 PPG's and 2 ENG's.

Not hard to see where they did their damage. Trouba was a free entry and hyper aggressive and the Panthers really took advantage of that. Lindgren was even worse and had an all time terrible playoff run.

 

[LOFIN]

Mikkola's name is etched in a Stanley Cup.

Adam Fox wrote his name on a plastic party cup at his engagement party.

I think Mikola was great for us, and would love him in the 2nd pairing.

 

[chris kontos]

I don't get the 4 Nations Tournament. It's an all star game + nationalism. Players don't care that much about a meaningless All Star game, but having the opportunity to represent your country in a meaningless game and wow it's so important!

NHL cash grab. Nothing more

 

[DanielBrassard]

The Washington Capitals didn't blow it up. Vegas never blew it up. The Panthers were Presidents' Trophy winners and barely sneaked into a playoff spot and went to the Cup Final and won it the following year. If it were up to this board Florida would have sold off. I would trade Kreider, Lindgren, and if I can Mika. That's not blowing it up. But it's not nothing.

I can’t speak for others but I wasn’t in favor of tearing it all down. I wanted to take a step back over the rest of this season, and next season, add draft capital and prospects, and then add a premiere free agent or two over the next couple off seasons. Trade the rentals, look to trade Zibanejad and Kreider in the offseason. Dont trade the first+ for Miller. Keep Fox, Miller, Schneider, Jones on D. Panarin, Trocheck, Lafreniere, Chytil, Edstrom, Carrick. Promote Berard and Perreault probably makes the team next season. Probably stuck with Mika at the bare minimum. But you would have ample cap space, multiple early round draft picks to use on players or trade for established NHLers.

 

[will1066]

I think Mikola was great for us, and would love him in the 2nd pairing.

He did nothing wrong and got let go.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I can’t speak for others but I wasn’t in favor of tearing it all down. I wanted to take a step back over the rest of this season, and next season, add draft capital and prospects, and then add a premiere free agent or two over the next couple off seasons. Trade the rentals, look to trade Zibanejad and Kreider in the offseason. Dont trade the first+ for Miller. Keep Fox, Miller, Schneider, Jones on D. Panarin, Trocheck, Lafreniere, Chytil, Edstrom, Carrick. Promote Berard and Perreault probably makes the team next season. Probably stuck with Mika at the bare minimum. But you would have ample cap space, multiple early round draft picks to use on players or trade for established NHLers.

I mean, I think everyone would be in favor if it's possible to move Kreider, Lindgren, and Mika. The big question mark is Panarin. He's still a very good player that looks to be on the decline but he also looked to be on the decline two seasons ago and then had the best season of his career last year. And then we have the people that want to trade Fox based on one bad season playing with an anchor.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I mean, I think everyone would be in favor if it's possible to move Kreider, Lindgren, and Mika. The big question mark is Panarin. He's still a very good player that looks to be on the decline but he also looked to be on the decline two seasons ago and then had the best season of his career last year. And then we have the people that want to trade Fox based on one bad season playing with an anchor.

Trading Fox is moronic. Panarin is still a great player just slightly diminished. But the point is I think it would have been beneficial to take a step back, recoup assets and make a play from higher end talent who are better fits for the rangers next window.