Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[will1066]

I still think Trocheck put too much marinara sauce on the puck to Kreider, but other teams finish that play and a lot of the chances we create (yes there is a joke embedded in there).

 

[McRanger92]

The one thing I'll give Drury credit for is being ruthless enough to dump guys like Goodrow and Trouba when the room was against it.

But to get rid of the players, as you say, the ones that are the problem, I think that results in a pretty big step back. Panarin may be a problem for the culture, but no one is available to step in and fill his 90 point shoes.

I think if you are moving out the "big four" in Lindgren, Panarin, Mika and Kreider, you probably don't have replacements on hand to reload that group right away and be a contender. You might scrape together a playoff team next year with Trocheck/Chytil as your 1-2, and with Lafreniere, Perrault, Othmann, and Reilly Smith or something. But to me that's just wasting more time.

Full measures.

You said in another post, analyze who should stay. But I think having realistic expectations of how quickly you can actually compete for a Cup again needs to be factoring into that math. Why would Trocheck be on the keep list? Etc.

Even in a down year Trocheck is still our best penalty killer and faceoff man and we have nothing at center behind him. There is no good reason to trade him. Other than throwing every player over 30 out with the bathwater so we can win a Cup in 5 years(? Still not necessarily following that logic when we can't develop top talent).

I do think we both agree on the next steps in terms of removing the cancers, but it's equally delusional for you to say they need to tear everything down and start over as it is when people say 'if we get into the playoffs we have a shot with Igor". The only players on the team under contract for next year over the age of 30 are Panarin, Kreider, Mika and Trocheck (Brodzinski and Carrick too but they are making 1mil or less). It's still a very young team, especially once you continue the process of moving out the overpaid veterans.

 

[Profet]

I still think Trocheck put too much marinara sauce on the puck to Kreider, but other teams finish that play and a lot of the chances we create (yes there is a joke embedded in there).

There is def a joke baked in there (it was right there).

 

[mas0764]

I would be sold on keeping Trocheck way quicker than I'd be sold on trading for JT Miller.

 

[Profet]

I would be sold on keeping Trocheck way quicker than I'd be sold on trading for JT Miller.

The ONLY potential positive of getting JTM for me would be to some how teach Lafreniere to compete and be someone hard to play against again.

In juniors Laf was a mofo to play against.

He plays like just a guy here... and I blame Panarin for that.

If JTM could come in here and just get Lafreniere to be hard to play against again, that may be worth it.

But those are some HUGE if's and I'm not sold the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[McRanger92]

I would be sold on keeping Trocheck way quicker than I'd be sold on trading for JT Miller.

Context clues tell me that Drury doesnt want to trade for JT Miller at that full contract unless he's getting salary relief elsewhere. He offered Mika for him back in December, which we all would've considered a fleecing. The recent trade broke down over retained money on the Canucks end and protecting our 1st rounder.

It's kind of funny how Drury seems to have the same priorities as you do over the years, and especially recently, but he gets no quarter due to the Buchenvich trade, which was ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I’m still fine with Trocheck. I don’t care as much about one monumentally stupid play as much as I do about consistently playing shitty soft loser hockey

 

[dshea19]

The ONLY potential positive of getting JTM for me would be to some how teach Lafreniere to compete and be someone hard to play against again.

In juniors Laf was a mofo to play against.

He plays like just a guy here... and I blame Panarin for that.

If JTM could come in here and just get Lafreniere to be hard to play against again, that may be worth it.

But those are some HUGE if's and I'm not sold the juice is worth the squeeze.

Trocheck is a pain to play against and Laf plays with him. Shouldn't he be able to pick it up from Tro? I am not saying that Bread isn't possibly having a negative impact, but if he is then bringing in a hard nosed player probably won't solve the problem because there are some on the Rangers. The negative impact would be in another way.

 

[Fitzy]

We'd spend the next five years finding a new Trocheck if we lost him, and more likely would end up overpaying a bottom 6 dude to try to do half of what he does.

There's literally no downside to having him here. You can even demote him to the 3rd line and as long as he scores around 50 he's still a bargain on that contract.

 

[Profet]

Trocheck is a pain to play against and Laf plays with him. Shouldn't he be able to pick it up from Tro? I am not saying that Bread isn't possibly having a negative impact, but if he is then bringing in a hard nosed player probably won't solve the problem because there are some on the Rangers. The negative impact would be in another way.

You're not wrong... but I also have no idea what happens in the locker room.

We know that JTM is a vocal locker room presence. Not sure about Trocheck.

I'm not the coach, but the Lafreniere on the right side experiment has failed. It worked for a hot minute, but it's just not a thing I want to see anymore.

 

[Bob Richards]

Trocheck is someone who I’m very willing to write off this season as just a bad year while everyone else is having one.

I can easily see guys like him, Fox, Lafreniere and Igor play significantly better next season once the team replaces the screen doors on this submarine.

 

[McRanger92]

You're not wrong... but I also have no idea what happens in the locker room.

We know that JTM is a vocal locker room presence. Not sure about Trocheck.

I'm not the coach, but the Lafreniere on the right side experiment has failed. It worked for a hot minute, but it's just not a thing I want to see anymore.

JTM and Trocheck being close is another variable that is worth mentioning. If trocheck is the defacto captain at the moment I think thats a good counterweight to JT's style.

 

[dshea19]

You're not wrong... but I also have no idea what happens in the locker room.

We know that JTM is a vocal locker room presence. Not sure about Trocheck.

I'm not the coach, but the Lafreniere on the right side experiment has failed. It worked for a hot minute, but it's just not a thing I want to see anymore.

I definitely think there needs to be more intense players. Bread, Fox, Kreider and Zib are very laid back. There needs to be a balance of guys that push the needle and guys that are pressure release valves. Too many pressure release valves in leadership. I think that was one aspect they lost with Goodrow. I think he brought a level on intensity and was probably a voice of authority in the locker room. He just was too expensive for what he did on the ice.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I've touched on this before: the more time passes, the more it becomes apparent that the Gorton administration was an unmitigated disaster. I'm not saying Drury is necessarily better. I still don't have a real opinion on Drury. This takes time.

I do know that we won't see positive outcomes until the culture is changed. It's Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider etc. They all had golden goose treatment. @GoAwayPanarin has finally sold me on Panarin. I defended him in the past because I don't think he's always lazy, but we allow him to have bad habits and we made his bad habits a team culture. We're left with a team that all play like Panarin and only one of them has the skill to do that. It's not going to be corrected here. It's been three coaches.

I pick on coaches but the way they're judged is unfair. They either win or they don't. That's all their job security comes down to. Of course they're going to let Panairn cook. Look at the points he puts up. Somebody mentioned it yesterday -- coaches are middle management. The expectations are set upstairs. They'll just get the next guy to do what they wanted you to do. Gorton signed these guys (ok, Drury extended Zibanejad very early on in his tenure but that was never not happening) with the directive that they're untouchable. This is is the core we're winning the Cup with. The only recourse now is to get rid of the players.

Lafreniere might be salavagable because he's young. Fox, I don't care, because this version of him is still firmly a top 10 D. The rest of the "star" players have to go, along with Lindgren who just sucks and plays in our top 4.

The thing is, I'd really never categorize Panarin as lazy, back check on the Colorado GWG the other day aside (THAT was lazy.)

Bad habits, yeah. I really don't care for his play style - he's got some situations where he's great (time and space off the rush? He's elite there) but the overall package? He's pretty f***ing dumb overall and he no longer really has the feet to lead the rush so he's entirely dependent on his team being able to counter attack to get those chances (and he used to be pretty good at getting this going as well.)

He also just.... gets to do what ever he wants with who ever he wants to do it with and there are no repercussions. Even Mika and Kreider have been scratched or demoted. I've seen Panarin pulled off of a PP once (Gallant) and he was put right back out there later during the same PP. He refused to play with Kakko and Quinn obliged. The first GA last night was entirely on him and he's literally getting double shifted in the 3rd yesterday.

He had an entire trade deadline dedicated to him and he f***ing took the biggest steaming dump I've seen a star player take in a playoff series.

He is Mr. Country Club. He wasn't a part of the locker room BS from a few months ago and why would he be? He has gotten everything hes ever wanted and faces no consequences for playing like an idiot.

Its time to move on from Kreider - We've gotten more out of him than I think anyone ever expected to (a big fat LOL at those who have bagged on him since he was drafted pulling an "I told you so" now. Yeah 300+ goals later, f*** off.)

Moving on from Zibanejad would be necessary from a roster management angle if they bring in another C and would just be smart overall if you can do it. He would benefit from a reset too IMO.

Moving on from Panarin is necessary from a culture standpoint. If you really want to change the room and reshape your roster, he's gotta go.

 

[McRanger92]

I definitely think there needs to be more intense players. Bread, Fox, Kreider and Zib are very laid back. There needs to be a balance of guys that push the needle and guys that are pressure release valves. Too many pressure release valves in leadership. I think that was one aspect they lost with Goodrow. I think he brought a level on intensity and was probably a voice of authority in the locker room. He just was too expensive for what he did on the ice.

it's also not the best sign that the team needed a mercenary like Goodrow to motivate a team of homegrown guys. the Torts and AV Rangers didnt have this problem until the end. It's pathetic that we did coming off a President's trophy and ECF appearance

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

My favorite timeline is going to be when the Rangers sell at the deadline bc they're 10 (+/- 2 pts) out at the deadline and then go on a heater to close out the season sans 55 but miss out by 4 points or less.

There is going to be so much BS tossed around about the locker room rifts, Igor, Kreider, Mika, etc while ignoring the obvious.

They chose to bring back Lindgren. They could have just not done that in the offseason and they would have probably made it in comfortably.

I'm almost rooting for this to happen because it would be so hilarious. I'd also be incredibly pissed off, but it'd be nearly impossible not to laugh at it.

 

[duhmetreE]

I just can’t see this roster and coach winning a cup.

I know it will sound stupid to some, but can we get a coach that’s fit? Young and not a retread

We desperately need a militant coach that the players will follow.

 

[LOFIN]

The ONLY potential positive of getting JTM for me would be to some how teach Lafreniere to compete and be someone hard to play against again.

In juniors Laf was a mofo to play against.

He plays like just a guy here... and I blame Panarin for that.

If JTM could come in here and just get Lafreniere to be hard to play against again, that may be worth it.

But those are some HUGE if's and I'm not sold the juice is worth the squeeze.

Is that JT Miller though? Part of the reason for the rift between Elias Pettersson and JT Miller is probably that the former can see right through the bullshit of JT Miller. Preaching about hard work and being tough, while you basically execute the Ovie controller disconnect on the defensive zone is not going to get other people take you seriously.

For all his supposed intensity, he's also miserable in the defensive zone. Lazy even. And that takes away from your credibility.

 

[lakeshirts37]

i’ll be real, i’m concerned about how Fox looks. I know hes still on pace for 70 points but he doesnt look like the same player. Spare me the lindgren shit, I know he sucks, but Fox himself looks slower and weaker. As a guy who was always slow, he can’t afford to lose a step.

Totally agree. He doesn’t look as dynamic or noticeable. Maybe thats just the league catching up to him, but he needs to seriously hit the gym.

 

[lakeshirts37]

starting to think JT is not coming here. feels like one of those deals that cant be circled back to after months of negotiations and falling apart at the 1 yard line

 

[McRanger92]

starting to think JT is not coming here. feels like one of those deals that cant be circled back to after months of negotiations and falling apart at the 1 yard line

I think the ball is firmly in Vancouver's court. Also don't think after the last couple of games that the Rangers are rushing to add right now.

 

[GAGLine]

I just can’t see this roster and coach winning a cup.

I know it will sound stupid to some, but can we get a coach that’s fit? Young and not a retread

We desperately need a militant coach that the players will follow.

Wasn't Quinn basically that guy? Lots of people thought so when he was hired only to inevitably turn on him by year 2.

Who do you want to bring in and why will things be any different with that coach?

 

[DanielBrassard]

They're just gonna have to get lucky to get a legit 1C. It's hard to finish that low even if you try. And then you have to win the lottery. And then it has to be the right year.

I'm ok with taking a step back but I question the efficacy of actively trying to be as bad as possible.

The only chance they have at finding a #1 center is trade or UFA. They aren’t going to draft one anytime soon let’s just be real. That’s why I am in favor of trading for Pettersson. Sure it might not work out but there’s rangers have no reason not to take a risk. Either that or signing Eichel in UFA but who knows if he even gets there. McDavid ain’t happening.

 

[Profet]

Wasn't Quinn basically that guy? Lots of people thought so when he was hired only to inevitably turn on him by year 2.

Who do you want to bring in and why will things be any different with that coach?

I want an actual systems coach. Someone who you know... coaches.

I'm done with the buddy buddy coaches. I want a coach who holds EVERYONE accountable. Even vets.

I'd love if Torts was here again.

 

[duhmetreE]

Wasn't Quinn basically that guy? Lots of people thought so when he was hired only to inevitably turn on him by year 2.

Who do you want to bring in and why will things be any different with that coach?

True but Quinn was just not a good system/x’s and o’s NHL coach

He was halfway there