Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[zlev]

If you're concerned about Chytil's defense, just wait till you see JT's attention to detail.

yeah and this is another thing, what is this myth about JT Miller being good defensively? he is and has always been awful in his own zone.

 

[GAGLine]

Yes, 92.5 is the current estimate for next season. That is the number I used.
The first two post that I put up were not an opinion take, they were factual numbers.

Post # 646
Post # 652

You can like Chytil as a player. I love his speed and skillset and honestly he can be dynamic. He carries the puck well through the neutral zone. He has a decent shot.

The issue with Chytil is he is often prone to chicken without a head syndrome defensively. It's not always but it happens from time to time. That's a fair criticism of the player.

I don't think he's a finished product but you do have to wonder with the injuries if he ever will be. Using him at 4.4M as the centerpiece to acquire JT Miller, a bonafide star in the league, is a no brainer. I can't understand not wanting to do that other than (1) you dont want to trade 1sts for anyone, or (2) you are hugging a player you like.

And I am huge Chytil fan. Just trying to be objective.


Cap estimates are $97M for next year per Friedman

The latter number is dependent on the NHL and NHLPA agreeing to a new CBA. It isn't a done deal, yet.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

yeah and this is another thing, what is this myth about JT Miller being good defensively? he is and has always been awful in his own zone.

I would probably take a healthy Chytil over Miller at this point in their careers. But I would definitely make the deal, JT's issues and all, only because I have more faith in Miller staying healthy than I do Chytil.

 

[NYR Viper]

What do people think Miller's next 5 years of stats look like? Genuinely curious

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What do people think Miller's next 5 years of stats look like? Genuinely curious

Does he play PP1 here?

I'm not sure he breaks his way onto that unit this year if he were to come here. It'd take them moving one of Kreider or Zibanejad and I don't think either are happening until the summer.

Of course it can still all go to hell over the next 6 weeks and that could change things but if they hang around or even jump into a spot, they aren't going to move them right now.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm one of the biggest proponents of tanking there is. But with teams clearly finishing outside the playoffs and in football where there are barely any games. The Rangers have a good shot at making the playoffs, f*** that. And they made it to the ECF last year. Double f*** that. If you want to root for almost 35 straight losses be my guest but it doesn't add to the environment on the board.

 

[NYR Viper]

Does he play PP1 here?

I'm not sure he breaks his way onto that unit this year if he were to come here. It'd take them moving one of Kreider or Zibanejad and I don't think either are happening until the summer.

Of course it can still all go to hell over the next 6 weeks and that could change things but if they hang around or even jump into a spot, they aren't going to move them right now.

I would think the answer to this question is yes

 

[UnSandvich]

If we’re considering moving our first, or possibly trading Schneider, Miller is not the guy I would target. That’d be Karlsson (at 50% retained of course).

The team very badly needs a second puck mover on the back end. And it won’t take 8mil to upgrade on Mika

 

[bernmeister]

Is he really though? He's on pace for about 40 points this season, after scoring 75 last season. Most of his goals are tip in, he's brings almost zero at ES. The time is now to trade him in hopes a team thinks he will turn back into a motivated Kreider.

More excuses for golden boy Kreider. He could have zero points all season and a few of you guys would still say he's great and come up with more excuses for his shit play.

CK is the only one who has been stud enuf to take a beating to get those tip ins, and some have the balls to criticize
Kreider w/bad back is showing more heart than most of the rest of the team and is still productive in these circumstances
It is not clear whether or not full rest LTIR would 111% address the prob or if this is something he has to work thru
Does not make sense to deal now

I want to agree that he is that badly injured but then why is he playing?

1. More heart than most of the rest of the team
2. even damaged he is better than alternative

SHOW SOME FUGGIN RESPECT
give credit where credit is due

1 game victory laps sure are your thing.

Not just 1 game
Unfortunately, some who shall remain nameless fail to acknowledge how often I was right calling shit in real time or before the fact.
But so that truth will prevail, I will continue to speak

As to Rempe I called this from sq 1 going back to last yr, repeatedly
PHYSICIAN HEAL THYSELF

1. No way Vancouver takes that
2. Borgen and Vaak come in and stabilize the defense, you turn around and deal them for the Canucks 3 worst defensemen. Absolutely stupid.

Let's be objective/honest.

1. VAN will take what it figures is its best deal, PERIOD
I don't see few other clubs where jtm might agree to go to coughing up more

2. You can get decent 3rd pair from Forbot-Juulsen = ok stopgap
ditching Lindy = addition by subtraction
including Borg-Vaak allows you to keep Chytil and our 1st, plus justifes the ask they downgrade on a pick swap

So no, not stupid in the least
Howev, I don't expect some, without a scintilla of creativity/vision, to get it

You probably have never had a chronic back problem. He seems to be moving and making decisions that will prevent his body from taking a severe jolt that would cause a nerve to come in contact with a disc. Just being on the ice probably causes a certain amount of pain, but he is trying to protect himself from a catastrophic episode. The close ups I saw of him the last couple days frankly looked like he was stoned on pain killers.

I believe you have said many times that if he is hurt, he should sit. That is a reasonable take. My guess is that for the time being, the team is making a decision that 60% Kreider is better than 100% of one of the AHLers.

outstanding post
fully correct on all counts

I would probably take a healthy Chytil over Miller at this point in their careers. But I would definitely make the deal, JT's issues and all, only because I have more faith in Miller staying healthy than I do Chytil.

fair
if we can do my deal as workaround and keep Chytil and hope he stays healthy, that is the way to go

 

[Kovalev27]

What about actual goals 5v5?

Carolina never scores on us and no one cares when they’re anointing them cup contenders. It’s about driving play at 5v5. It was our weakness. We’re scoring plenty again. We scored plenty before the losing streak. We just need the PP to come around again

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Going to stay on my Anti Lindgren campaign. I'll get accused of beating a dead horse but I think it's a decent practice to illustrate just how bad he's been instead of just saying he's been bad.

Posted this in last nights post game thread, but here's where Lindgren ranks in xGF% over the last 9 games amongst his cohorts.

Chicago - 6th out of 6
Dallas - 6th out of 6
NJD -6th out of 6
Vegas - 5th out of 6th (Borgen slightly behind.)
Colorado - 2nd out of 6th (this was a good game in what for him was a really tough matchup. f***ed up on the GTG but that doesn't make it a bad game.)
Arizona - 6th out of 6 (sub 10% in this game!)
CBJ - 5th out of 6 (Vaak 6th)
Montreal - 4th out of 6 (Vaak Schneider worse)
Ottawa - 2nd out of 6

Here is Fox -

Chicago - 5th out of 6
Dallas - 3rd out of 6
NJD - 3rd out of 6
Vegas- 2nd out of 6
Colorado - 1st out of 6
Utah - 5th out of 6
CBJ - 4th out of 6
Montreal - 3rd out of 6
Ottawa - 1st out of 6

Fox has finished above the 50% threshold 5 times in those 9 games. Lindgren has done it twice. The Rangers as a team have done so in every game except 2 (Dallas and Montreal, those games where shit shows.)

Dallas and NJ are both games where both guys finished below 50%, Fox finished those games 12 and 21(!!!) % ahead of Lindgren.

This isn't a case of the Rangers splitting them while they're trailing in the 3rd and Fox having an positive xG buildup, the Rangers have trailed ONCE in the last 9 games going into the 3rd - Thats a game they tied while SH early in the 3rd against Utah.

Ryan Lindgren remains the biggest issue on this team as he was last season. They cannot do anything at the deadline to improve the team that will offset keeping him around. He needs to go.

I don't know what a good replacement looks like at the moment, but nearly anyone and anything would be an improvement. Long term this is probably that they'll need to address via trade.

Oh yeah Lindgren sucks on the PK as well.

OTOH you know whose been awesome on the PK this year? Miller and Schneider.

I would think the answer to this question is yes

Then I'd guess he'd be where Zib/Kreider have been the last few years for 2-3 seasons before falling off.

so 70-80 points, maybe a bit more if the PP really cooks.

I think the worry is what do years 5-6-7 look like? Those years are going to matter.

 

[JohnC]

Going to stay on my Anti Lindgren campaign.

Were you ever off?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Were you ever off?

I take a break to berate the HFdocs

 

[NYR Viper]

Going to stay on my Anti Lindgren campaign. I'll get accused of beating a dead horse but I think it's a decent practice to illustrate just how bad he's been instead of just saying he's been bad.

Posted this in last nights post game thread, but here's where Lindgren ranks in xGF% over the last 9 games amongst his cohorts.

Chicago - 6th out of 6
Dallas - 6th out of 6
NJD -6th out of 6
Vegas - 5th out of 6th (Borgen slightly behind.)
Colorado - 2nd out of 6th (this was a good game in what for him was a really tough matchup. f***ed up on the GTG but that doesn't make it a bad game.)
Arizona - 6th out of 6 (sub 10% in this game!)
CBJ - 5th out of 6 (Vaak 6th)
Montreal - 4th out of 6 (Vaak Schneider worse)
Ottawa - 2nd out of 6

Here is Fox -

Chicago - 5th out of 6
Dallas - 3rd out of 6
NJD - 3rd out of 6
Vegas- 2nd out of 6
Colorado - 1st out of 6
Utah - 5th out of 6
CBJ - 4th out of 6
Montreal - 3rd out of 6
Ottawa - 1st out of 6

Fox has finished above the 50% threshold 5 times in those 9 games. Lindgren has done it twice. The Rangers as a team have done so in every game except 2 (Dallas and Montreal, those games where shit shows.)

Dallas and NJ are both games where both guys finished below 50%, Fox finished those games 12 and 21(!!!) % ahead of Lindgren.

This isn't a case of the Rangers splitting them while they're trailing in the 3rd and Fox having an positive xG buildup, the Rangers have trailed ONCE in the last 9 games going into the 3rd - Thats a game they tied while SH early in the 3rd against Utah.

Ryan Lindgren remains the biggest issue on this team as he was last season. They cannot do anything at the deadline to improve the team that will offset keeping him around. He needs to go.

I don't know what a good replacement looks like at the moment, but nearly anyone and anything would be an improvement. Long term this is probably that they'll need to address via trade.

Oh yeah Lindgren sucks on the PK as well.

OTOH you know whose been awesome on the PK this year? Miller and Schneider.



Then I'd guess he'd be where Zib/Kreider have been the last few years for 2-3 seasons before falling off.

so 70-80 points, maybe a bit more if the PP really cooks.

I think the worry is what do years 5-6-7 look like? Those years are going to matter.

He only has 5 years left after this one though. He's in year 2 of 7 so we would only be needing to worry about the next 5

 

[TGWL]

Nothing from him about Kakko, I see.

They asked him last week. He said "Who's Kakko?"

 

[Savant]

yeah and this is another thing, what is this myth about JT Miller being good defensively? he is and has always been awful in his own zone.

I mean you aren't going to be a great defender, you better be able to hit things. Miller hits things. We wouldn't be acquiring him to win a Selke

 

[McRanger92]

Calling out Chytil for 1 play in the ECF where he clearly wasn't anywhere near his best, and saying you have "nightmares" about it, is very unfair. Whatever defensive issues he has had aren't any worse than Mika's this year, or anyone else's for that matter.

When Chytil is fully healthy, he drives play better than almost anyone else on this team. He is by no means perfect, and staying healthy is easily his biggest issue. All I'm saying is that you don't need to fabricate narratives about him to justify your position.

I still don't see how saying Chytil has defensive lapses and is always hurt is "fabricating a narrative". Im sorry you took offense to just one example I used. There have been plenty of times this year where he has let guys skate right around him. I'd love to trade Mika instead of him but that's not an option. And I like Chytil a lot as a player. If I knew he'd be healthy over the next 5 years we wouldnt even be discussing trading him.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

I think we should trade Laffy and Fox for almost nothing, then try to bring them back on the team when their contracts are even bigger and going to cost a lot of assets and futures. Oh and if they are old and declining, then that is even better.

 

[will1066]

I think we should trade Laffy and Fox for almost nothing, then try to bring them back on the team when their contracts are even bigger and going to cost a lot of assets and futures. Oh and if they are old and declining, then that is even better.

Why are you doing this?

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Yeah I agree Lindgren needs to go, We got rid of Trouba and I am grateful. Lindgren is a big problem like Staal and Girardi towards the end

 

[JohnC]

Yeah I agree Lindgren needs to go, We got rid of Trouba and I am grateful. Lindgren is a big problem like Staal and Girardi towards the end

The worst thing? He’s infinitely more moveable than either of those two were.

 

[effen]

You probably have never had a chronic back problem. He seems to be moving and making decisions that will prevent his body from taking a severe jolt that would cause a nerve to come in contact with a disc. Just being on the ice probably causes a certain amount of pain, but he is trying to protect himself from a catastrophic episode. The close ups I saw of him the last couple days frankly looked like he was stoned on pain killers.

I believe you have said many times that if he is hurt, he should sit. That is a reasonable take. My guess is that for the time being, the team is making a decision that 60% Kreider is better than 100% of one of the AHLers.

I would guess it's one of those "you're not going to make it worse by playing, it's just gonna suck" and he's gutting it out.

yeah and this is another thing, what is this myth about JT Miller being good defensively? he is and has always been awful in his own zone.

He has 4 years with Selke votes and is hard matched against McDavid by Vancouver. Bruh.

 

[bigdog16]

Yeah I agree Lindgren needs to go, We got rid of Trouba and I am grateful. Lindgren is a big problem like Staal and Girardi towards the end

It is wild that Lindgren is only 26 years old (almost 27). The dude is cooked.

He is 2 years older than KAM and 3 years older than Schneider.

 

[Machinehead]

It is wild that Lindgren is only 26 years old (almost 27). The dude is cooked.

He is 2 years older than KAM and 3 years older than Schneider.

He doesn't skate well, he's too small, and he doesn't create/produce offense at an NHL level.

It's easy to make it to cooked when your ability was that fragile to begin with.

People compare him to Girardi, but Girardi was worlds better with the puck. It's comical how egregiously teams ignore Lindgren and play the other guys 5v4 when we have the puck. If you did that to Girardi, he would walk in and snipe it. He scored 10 goals one year.

 

[TominNC]

What number do Borgen and Vaakanainen want to extend here? Both guys have been great fits. not flashy but they are the defensive depth the team needs, that will always be useful. Borgen is Trouba at his best at a fraction of the cap hit. Urho is positionally solid and ist afraid to get his hands dirty for a smallish guy. They've made K'Andre and Schneider much better. Impressed at the work Drury did with those trades.

Vaak and Borgen are the same size. Or Borgen's an inch taller but basically the same weight