Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[DuneGoon84]

What hurts more than adding is all the opportunity loss not selling off Smith, Borgen, Kreider, etc. Imagine Tampa Bay sending a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Sam Carrick.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

A Chytil + Miller for Miller trade makes sense to me

 

[BlueGoose27]

That's actually exactly what you need to do with a top pick. I've said it before, but it bears repeating--it isn't so much leash as it is role. Guys who get drafted in the top few picks of the first round have spent the entirety of their careers as the guy. The one who puts the team on their shoulders. The one who is on the ice in all situations. The one who is put on for the last 5 minutes of the game because they NEED a goal. That's a mindset. It's a personality. To paraphrase the coach from The Replacements: Winners want the puck on their stick when the game is on the line. THAT'S why top picks get put out there over and over again even when they haven't earned it.

The Rangers did the opposite with Laf and Kakko. They put them on the 3rd and 4th lines. They would occasionally put them up on line 1 or 2 for 7 or 8 game stints, but the second the line didn't produce, they were bumped. They healthy scratched Kakko in the playoffs twice. They put them in a position they haven't been in since they were pee wee players--a role player. And for guys like that, that's confidence kryptonite.

With Laf, it at least sort of made sense, as he had Panarin and Kreider ahead of him having several career years (though I still think they should have sent him down if that was going to be the case). With Kakko? The team hasn't had a viable first line RW since the Buchnevich trade. Instead of stapling Kakko there and letting him work through his bumps, they brought in a rotating list of B-players (Copp, Vatrano, Reilly, sometimes Goodrow, Blais, etc etc etc) and aging vets (Kane, Tarasenko) rather than show an ounce of confidence in Kakko. Hell, as good as he was on D, they never even let him work into the PK.

Like I said, I don't necessarily think it was a mistake moving Kakko. By this point, he was never going to feel like this team had confidence in him. But it was the team that destroyed that confidence in the first place. You don't take a player with a Triple Crown pedigree and then try to make him elite at giving pony rides before letting him run a real race. If all they had were 3rd/4th line roles for him at MSG, then they should have sent him down. Better to develop that kind of player as "the guy" at a lower level than as nobody in the NHL. That's what Seattle knows that Drury didn't. It's not about an extra minute per game and PP time. It's about putting Kakko back into the position of having expectations--putting him in the role of being the reason they win or lose games. You rarely get that kind of drive outside the top of the draft, and you can't really teach it. You can crush it out of a guy though, and that's the main problem with the Rangers' "development."

Damn man, this is by far the best take I’ve read on the NYR in years. You nailed it…there’s not one thing I’d disagree with. Think you should give Dolan a call…they could use you in the front office…replacing Drury. Well said brother…tip of the hat for you.

 

[n8]

A Chytil + Miller for Miller trade makes sense to me

I sense we would need to add to that deal.
So tonight, Borgen had two pretty bad giveaways and Miller had too pretty bad blown coverages. He completely flinched away from the shot instead of covering Gallagher and was really slow to react to Laine's positioning on the GWG.

View attachment 963989

Yes indeed

 

[SnowblindNYR]

And Kakko having RFA years left, being younger, makes him more valuable.

I just don't know what exactly the expectation was. I don't know what GMs think but I know that on this board and with fans in general he was viewed as a VERY disappointing 2nd overall player who was a good role player and nothing more. So was Fast. I mean I can't imagine GMs in the league thought of him some diamond in the rough amazing player. The only reason to expect some amazing value back is his draft position almost 6 years ago.

Both Buch and Miller were better players when they got drafted. Buch got traded for a worse player. And Miller was just a throw in for God knows why reason.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I sense we would need to add to that deal.
So tonight, Borgen had two pretty bad giveaways and Miller had too pretty bad blown coverages. He completely flinched away from the shot instead of covering Gallagher and was really slow to react to Laine's positioning on the GWG.

Yes indeed

Well considering that they just about had an agreement offering a lot less I'd say this is wrong.

As the the analysis on the OT winner but thats been covered in the other thread by multiple people. No need to bring that over here.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

A Chytil + Miller for Miller trade makes sense to me

The Rangers are downgrading with whomever they play instead of Miller. When he had some solid ass games these trade proposals stopped another rockie game and they're back. Our defense will be an AHL level joke if we trade Miller.

 

[effen]

Urho Vaakanainen has far exceeded my expectations in that he's had very few if any egregiously stupid mistakes or plays which is all I ask for from, well, anyone.

Good job Vaak.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Urho Vaakanainen has far exceeded my expectations in that he's had very few if any egregiously stupid mistakes or plays which is all I ask for from, well, anyone.

Good job Vaak.

He just exists in a way where he doesn't totally suck. He isn't great either, he just is.

Thats pretty much all I'm looking for in a #6.

 

[mrmovies779]

Vaak is fine for the 3rd pair and cheap.if the price is right,I would bring him back.

 

[NYR2007]

Although this team has stringed together some better play as of late. They still need to make serious changes to this team and coaching staff needs to be let go at the end of the season. They play with no game plan and no structure.

Each line and even down to each player goes out and plays how ever they feel. That’s why they are terrible 5 on 5. There is almost like no game plan and the forwards go out and get to do whatever they want.

Chytil carries the puck and tries to stick handle through all 5 players and turns it over every shift instead of dumping the puck in.

Everyone on the bead line pulls up after they cross the blue line and tries to hit a trailing player. No one takes the puck to the middle of the ice. Game after game every shot gets blocked cause they are shooting from the outside and refuse to go to the middle of the ice.

It’s very fustrating to watch. Hopefully they make changes and get a lot of this core out cause we will never win playing like this

 

[n8]

Well considering that they just about had an agreement offering a lot less I'd say this is wrong.

As the the analysis on the OT winner but thats been covered in the other thread by multiple people. No need to bring that over here.

What was the supposed deal? Rumored deals with a grain of salt.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Our fans definitely suck. The most negative fans in the sport. People call me negative because I think Shesterkin sucks. But the amount of "this team is horrible" no matter what the result from fans shows I'm nearly the most negative person here.

Is it negative if our fans are down on the team because the team lacks structure and the correct mix of players.
The team has never passed the eye test and has succeeded in the recent past because of goaltending and special teams wallpapering over the cracks.
Largest US hockey fan base . That’s a lot of eyes all seeing the same thing, even with them going to two ECFs in the last three years.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Some good news, I think. Garand looks ready. Of course there is no way of being sure until he plays in NHL games.
And if there is a sell off at the TDL the organization can promote Belzile, Grouxl, Berard, Mancini and maybe Scanlin as stop gaps to finish off the season.
That’s a third line , two bottom pair defensemen and a backup goalie.
Not to shabby for a non embarrassing tank.

 

[smoneil]

Urho Vaakanainen has far exceeded my expectations in that he's had very few if any egregiously stupid mistakes or plays which is all I ask for from, well, anyone.

Good job Vaak.

My only issue with UV is that every time his name is called, my brain hears "Vodka Neinen" and I want to go hit the liquor cabinet. That, combined with this team's tendency to ALSO make me want to go hit the liquor cabinet just isn't good for the continued health of my liver.

 

[Cmox]

Our fans definitely suck. The most negative fans in the sport. People call me negative because I think Shesterkin sucks. But the amount of "this team is horrible" no matter what the result from fans shows I'm nearly the most negative person here.

Twitter and other social media opened my eyes to how clueless fans can be. More than once Ive seen fans hating trades because the player is hot, lol

 

[RangerBoy]

There is so such parity in the NHL and so many teams have cap issues. Some of these rosters are top heavy with zero depth like Colorado. The Rangers beat Vegas and it was a big deal. Vegas got shutout by the Islanders in the prior game to the Rangers game. Vegas has lost three straight games and 5 out of their last 6 games.

Back to our scheduled programming. Chris Kreider looks more spry since returning from his IR stint. MSG had the camera on him when he returned to the Rangers bench during the second period. He was talking to the trainer who put something in his hand and Kreider swallowed it. Tylenol? Advil?

Does Mika want to play in St. Louis? The Blues have been looking for a center. Possibly reunite Zibanejad and Buchnevich. Not sure what the Blues would send back in the deal. Saad has been available but where would Saad play in NY? The Rangers don't need another LW. Saad is signed for one season at $4.5M. Schenn is at $6.5M for three more seasons. He is their captain. Faulk is signed for more two seasons at $6.5M. Parayko is signed for $6.5M until 2030.

Perhaps Minnesota in the summer. They are looking for a center. Zuccarello is there but he is signed for just one more season. Minnesota has the huge Parise and Suter numbers coming off this summer. Cap will increase. The money is there.

Nashville? ROR? He does not have trade protection but Nashville will be consult with him before trading him.

Boston? The Bruins need help at center. The Bruins have contracts to send back to the Rangers.

PLD with 7 years remaining for Kuemper with 3 years remaining last summer. Both teams have benefited from that trade.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Amazing that we're not a perennial bottom feeder given that our owner sucks, our GM sucks, he can't make trades, he signs stupid contracts, our coaches sucks, they don't know how to develop players, our scouting sucks and we make so many bad picks, and our players suck.

Sucks to suck.

 

[RangerBoy]

On Friday, it appeared the Rangers and Vancouver were close to a trade. Something happened on Saturday. The deal didn't happen. Miller knew a trade was close to happening. No Mika. Vancouver isn't interested. No Braden. No Lafreniere. Vancouver wanted to make the trade but the Rangers weren't so eager to make the trade. Vancouver told people a trade was close but the Rangers weren't ready to make the deal. IMHO, the Rangers are better waiting until after the 4 Nations to make trades. Vancouver lost 5-1 on Thursday night to LA and they were mad. They wanted to move on from Miller. Some teams have permission to speak with Miller. Rangers and a few other teams. The Devils can't take Miller's contract without surgery because they have players with NMC/NTC. Looked at PuckPedia and EF is correct. They aren't trading Mercer's $4M. The Rangers have the Trouba space which is accruing daily.. Chytil's $4.4375M to Vancouver in the deal. EF doesn't believe NJ and Dallas are options for Miller. Carolina makes some sense to EF. (Necas? He is signed for just one more season. UFA.) It doesn't appear there many teams for Miller. He controls it. The Rangers should wait it out and acquire another first round pick to include in a trade to Vancouver. Keep their 2025 first round pick.

Salary cap could be set for three seasons. Both sides are in CBA talks. They are trying to figure out when to announce the cap numbers. Some people want it to be announced before the trade deadline. Some teams will not spend to the upper limit in a new $110M cap world. They can't spend to the upper limit.

 

[leetch99]

He sucked. That's the justification.

We seem to be gravitating towards "let them suck." Again, Alexis Lafreniere.

The answer is to get them to not suck. Opportunity is not the answer. We've seen both of them at pretty much every possible spot in the lineup.

Something is wrong with the way this team plays. They wouldn't be good getting 40 minutes.

They play like chickens for the most part ....look at the way the Habs played...crease and corner crashing all the time ...getting into scrums instead of trying to scurry from them . Look at that dummy Edstrom 6 ft 15 and pushing Gallagher away when he should have brought his fist down solid on top of his head accidentally of course . Geesh Defense soft ...most forwards soft .

Guys here just to pick up a check and head to the bank . We need a new direction and I would love to be in the playoffs.....but maybe the right thing is missing them and getting two good picks this year and next....but only if we have a better development system in place behind the bench and in the AHL and at practice . I might even leave Perreault in school for another year to be safe . I would trade any of them including Fox and Shesty if the price was right .

As you can tell....living in Eastern Canada...I hate losing to the Habs .

 

[ThePeoplesPeople]

@GoAwayPanarin

No clarity on Mika/Chytil to Vancouver .. that whole situation on Friday.

But surprisingly, was told the Hartford scratches were not related to a (potential) trade. Seems very strange but

 

[NYR Viper]

Urho Vaakanainen has far exceeded my expectations in that he's had very few if any egregiously stupid mistakes or plays which is all I ask for from, well, anyone.

Good job Vaak.

Too little discussion of the absolute fleecing Drury had in trading Trouba at $8m for a better player in Vaak who makes $1m and is younger and a RFA

 

[eco's bones]

You can chase a season like you chase games. We're chasing a season. Some players will have to be moved out and others come in but that doesn't mean we'll need to blow up the entire team. The Devils were kind of doing last year what we're doing this year. The Devils made moves to fix their D in the summer and then some of their top players remembered who they were. That said they had a lot of injuries last year. This year's Devils team is a lot better but it ain't great. I could see the Rangers pretty much doing similar next season.

I don't think we're making the playoffs this year. A question will be how hard Drury pushes things to try to get there. If I were to advise him it would be to if nothing else at least move all of the upcoming UFA's at the deadline. He can make a decision on signing Borgen or trading but I think it would be better for us to reset for next year and the years to come than to try to force/sneak our way into the playoffs by going after rentals and maybe sneak in in the last week and probably get knocked out for all that trouble......maybe even swept in the first round. He can stay with pretty much the same team and see how close they can get anyway without trading off picks/prospects. I would let this group sink or swim on its own. That's what the players asked for and wanted anyway.

 

[duhmetreE]

Save us JTM

 

[bhamill]

That's actually exactly what you need to do with a top pick. I've said it before, but it bears repeating--it isn't so much leash as it is role. Guys who get drafted in the top few picks of the first round have spent the entirety of their careers as the guy. The one who puts the team on their shoulders. The one who is on the ice in all situations. The one who is put on for the last 5 minutes of the game because they NEED a goal. That's a mindset. It's a personality. To paraphrase the coach from The Replacements: Winners want the puck on their stick when the game is on the line. THAT'S why top picks get put out there over and over again even when they haven't earned it.

The Rangers did the opposite with Laf and Kakko. They put them on the 3rd and 4th lines. They would occasionally put them up on line 1 or 2 for 7 or 8 game stints, but the second the line didn't produce, they were bumped. They healthy scratched Kakko in the playoffs twice. They put them in a position they haven't been in since they were pee wee players--a role player. And for guys like that, that's confidence kryptonite.

With Laf, it at least sort of made sense, as he had Panarin and Kreider ahead of him having several career years (though I still think they should have sent him down if that was going to be the case). With Kakko? The team hasn't had a viable first line RW since the Buchnevich trade. Instead of stapling Kakko there and letting him work through his bumps, they brought in a rotating list of B-players (Copp, Vatrano, Reilly, sometimes Goodrow, Blais, etc etc etc) and aging vets (Kane, Tarasenko) rather than show an ounce of confidence in Kakko. Hell, as good as he was on D, they never even let him work into the PK.

Like I said, I don't necessarily think it was a mistake moving Kakko. By this point, he was never going to feel like this team had confidence in him. But it was the team that destroyed that confidence in the first place. You don't take a player with a Triple Crown pedigree and then try to make him elite at giving pony rides before letting him run a real race. If all they had were 3rd/4th line roles for him at MSG, then they should have sent him down. Better to develop that kind of player as "the guy" at a lower level than as nobody in the NHL. That's what Seattle knows that Drury didn't. It's not about an extra minute per game and PP time. It's about putting Kakko back into the position of having expectations--putting him in the role of being the reason they win or lose games. You rarely get that kind of drive outside the top of the draft, and you can't really teach it. You can crush it out of a guy though, and that's the main problem with the Rangers' "development."

See also how players like Stutzle and Hughes were handled. Though to be fair those teams were not trying to win anything, bottom feeders have that “nothing left to lose” type freedom.