Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm right here :laugh:

It's been a crazy couple months. Between my mom passing away from cancer, starting a new job, and traveling for that new job, it's been hard to keep up with HF.

Sorry about your mom. It's what killed my dad and also my oldest sister. My younger brother's had three rounds with mantle cell lymphoma and I've had a taste of multiple myeloma. But I'm kind of old and it's cycle of life. It bothers me when people I love have to fight through this or when they die. I found out it doesn't bother me as much when it's me. Also there is a lot of progress with research and treatments even in the last few years.
 
Oh come on. If Borgen is a "2nd pairing defenseman" then Kakko is a ppg top line forward.

Borgen has played like a 2nd pairing defenseman before he was in a bad system for him. You're using the worst of Borgen. I didn't know anything about him but my understanding was that before this season he was very solid and was a bad fit in this system. I trust a guy playing a steady game before in his career over a guy whose production has never been ppg and is ppg for 14 games to be a ppg player over a season. Production is a lot more volatile.
 
it's absolutely relevant to the building of this roster at present and future to discuss whether this team can or can not properly develop and successfully deploy impact forwards, and why or why not.

i'm sorry, but references to kakko are a germane facet of that discussion. not "boo hoo we traded my favorite funny boi" or "lmao drury sux kakko ppg suck it," but actual observation. is anyone watching the kraken? or just reading box scores?

in fact, it's specifically an extremely useful case study for this generally accepted issue with the Rangers..

for example, to @SnowblindNYR point, did Seattle "develop him in 14 games?" Or did they take a player and deploy him properly, infuse him with confidence, and line him up with the right teammates? aka put him in a position to succeed?

Or is this a streak, borne perhaps of greater effort resulting from the trade? Or just mere shooting PDO luck - a complete nothingburger?

Again, really important things to talk about. We are looking at Lafreniere, a player who - like kakko - was universally regarded as having superstar potential. don't want to litigate the semantics of superstar, star, generational, elite. The point is: they were supposed to be GOOD.

I keep thinking about what @Machinehead would always condemn Kakko for - and now does the same for Laf: "he's the same bum he was when he came into the league."

I think about how we see other players on other teams take steps and leaps to grow in their efficacy and utility. They begin to do more things well. Lundell. Jarvis. Harley.

I think about how, yes, these are professional athletes, but that maybe Kakko previously and Laf now looking like the same players they've always been is the whole point. That's the disconnect. Players don't come into the league fully formed, as skilled as they may be. Talent, the kind that goes 1 or 2 overall, isn't just what they showed in juniors: it's an ability to grow and get better *better than peers.*

Our guys largely haven't been getting better *better than others.* In fact, they haven't really been getting better *at all.*

I believe the organization is to blame. I don't have a solution, because i don't know where the responsibility lies. But we need to be better at facilitating our young players to get better. They're just pretty much staying the same.

Take Cuylle - an example of relatively successful development.

He's PKing this year and flourishing in that role. Has he gotten better, though? Is he doing things he wasn't doing last year - structurally, defensively, individually, statistically?

I'm not well versed enough in either hockey game within the game (@LokiDog, your thoughts) or advanced metrics (@Machinehead) to be able to truly evaluate his individual play - let alone within the different line contexts, and context of the teams up and downs.

But to me, it feels like he's the same player being given a slightly longer leash. It looks like the team said "hey he can skate okay, he plays good physical D, he can give up the body... Will, you PK now."

does anyone see evidence of his growth as a player?
It's not just leash.

There's obviously an issue with our forward development. We knew that before either one got here.

The thing I grow tried of hearing is that we just didn't give them a chance. Both of them had every opportunity we can give them. Kakko started in our top six three years in a row. Lafreniere has been on essentially our first line since the start of last year. They lost all of those opportunities, or just produced ok results with them. Lately, we've been throwing Lafreniere out there on the powerplay, which is what people wanted, and he's unplayable on it. Singlehandedly ends possessions.

You can't keep sending them out there. No coach in the world is going to do that. Cuylle got promoted in the lineup and doesn't have a point since the Victorian Era.

We'd all like to know what the problem is but it's not leash. They're out there and they're f***ing up/doing nothing as much as any coach would let them.

I do think there's an issue with making guys "earn it" for two+ years and hurting their confidence offensively when they do get their turn, but again, Kakko got his turn with us years ago.

Seattle seems to have fixed it immediately and it can't just be putting him on the ice a minute more.

I also think we shouldn't judge his progress when he's red hot. He got hot with us before.
 
It's not just leash.

There's obviously an issue with our forward development. We knew that before either one got here.

The thing I grow tried of hearing is that we just didn't give them a chance. Both of them had every opportunity we can give them. Kakko started in our top six three years in a row. Lafreniere has been on essentially our first line since the start of last year. They lost all of those opportunities, or just produced ok results with them. Lately, we've been throwing Lafreniere out there on the powerplay, which is what people wanted, and he's unplayable on it. Singlehandedly ends possessions.

You can't keep sending them out there. No coach in the world is going to do that. Cuylle got promoted in the lineup and doesn't have a point since the Victorian Era.

We'd all like to know what the problem is but it's not leash. They're out there and they're f***ing up/doing nothing as much as any coach would let them.

I do think there's an issue with making guys "earn it" for two+ years and hurting their confidence offensively when they do get their turn, but again, Kakko got his turn with us years ago.

Seattle seems to have fixed it immediately and it can't just be putting him on the ice a minute more.

I also think we shouldn't judge his progress when he's red hot. He got hot with us before.
Kakko started a bit slow with Seattle actually.
 
They weren't resigning him. What haul were you looking for with Kakko. He was not some stud he was an inconsistent third liner. A good second pairing defenseman which as far as I know Borgen was before he was playing a defense not suited for him and is playing like again is equal value to a second pairing defenseman.

In what world Kakko independent of the draft a tier 1 piece? His play on the ice is on the same tier as a second pairing defenseman.
Why weren’t we able to resign him? We dumped Trouba with no retention
 
Why weren’t we able to resign him? We dumped Trouba with no retention
It's not that they weren't able, they just weren't.

It's pretty evident that whatever Kakko becomes, he wasn't doing it here. His value wasn't going to get any better either.

They should've traded him way sooner when he had a ton of value.

Or just learned how to develop forwards but that's asking too much.
 
Posting something similar with Borgan as to what I posted during Kreider’s UFA year.
If Borgen enjoys playing in New York then Drury can put a handshake deal in place with Borgen’s agent while Will is still Ranger’s property and then trade him on or before the deadline.
The one hiccup would be if Borgen suffers a serious injury while playing for his next team.
*A way around that would be if Borgen’s Agent secures PTD insurance for Borgen.

*I’m sure if this is incorrect, GAGLine will point it out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad