Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

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yup. if you're acquiring JTM and keeping Zibanejad, you need to improve the 1LD slot.

and hey, this is a pretty sweet roster:

Panarin Miller Lafreniere
Cuylle Zibanejad Smith
Kreider Trocheck Kaliyev
Edstrom Carrick Vesey

[Walman] Fox
Miller Borgen
Vaak Schneider
1. we can do better
2. start w/Rempe over Vesey


People should already get over about trading Kakko. Mistake with Kakko was done already years ago and to be honest he isn't the first prospect who organization f***ed up. But its important to make sure he is the last one, somebody needs to look into mirror and start to think how this organization handles youngsters.
to make sure this is not a regular occurrence
it is necessary to zing Rs mgt as they deserve
when they get it right, acknowledge it
when the eff up, call em out

'getting over' and letting it go is a disconnect from your proper reminder to be vigilant
and remember

tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide


it doesn't matter what hfboards says, or any fans.

what matters is how the players are treated and communicated to by the organization.

that's what we're talking about here. That's what kakko's quote reveals.
NO what we say DOES matter
it matters b'c suppression of free speech -> competition of ideas is inherently not good, and also b'c
every fuggin sports team needs to learn that w'o fan support, there is no pro league

in that context what we say is paramount, subject to our opinions being substantiated on merit

I agree the bold is also important but not paramount

I'm right here :laugh:

It's been a crazy couple months. Between my mom passing away from cancer, starting a new job, and traveling for that new job, it's been hard to keep up with HF.
very sorry for your loss
condolences
 
God stop talking about Kakko lol

If everyone could collectively shut up about him, that would be dope
it's absolutely relevant to the building of this roster at present and future to discuss whether this team can or can not properly develop and successfully deploy impact forwards, and why or why not.

i'm sorry, but references to kakko are a germane facet of that discussion. not "boo hoo we traded my favorite funny boi" or "lmao drury sux kakko ppg suck it," but actual observation. is anyone watching the kraken? or just reading box scores?

in fact, it's specifically an extremely useful case study for this generally accepted issue with the Rangers..

for example, to @SnowblindNYR point, did Seattle "develop him in 14 games?" Or did they take a player and deploy him properly, infuse him with confidence, and line him up with the right teammates? aka put him in a position to succeed?

Or is this a streak, borne perhaps of greater effort resulting from the trade? Or just mere shooting PDO luck - a complete nothingburger?

Again, really important things to talk about. We are looking at Lafreniere, a player who - like kakko - was universally regarded as having superstar potential. don't want to litigate the semantics of superstar, star, generational, elite. The point is: they were supposed to be GOOD.

I keep thinking about what @Machinehead would always condemn Kakko for - and now does the same for Laf: "he's the same bum he was when he came into the league."

I think about how we see other players on other teams take steps and leaps to grow in their efficacy and utility. They begin to do more things well. Lundell. Jarvis. Harley.

I think about how, yes, these are professional athletes, but that maybe Kakko previously and Laf now looking like the same players they've always been is the whole point. That's the disconnect. Players don't come into the league fully formed, as skilled as they may be. Talent, the kind that goes 1 or 2 overall, isn't just what they showed in juniors: it's an ability to grow and get better *better than peers.*

Our guys largely haven't been getting better *better than others.* In fact, they haven't really been getting better *at all.*

I believe the organization is to blame. I don't have a solution, because i don't know where the responsibility lies. But we need to be better at facilitating our young players to get better. They're just pretty much staying the same.

Take Cuylle - an example of relatively successful development.

He's PKing this year and flourishing in that role. Has he gotten better, though? Is he doing things he wasn't doing last year - structurally, defensively, individually, statistically?

I'm not well versed enough in either hockey game within the game (@LokiDog, your thoughts) or advanced metrics (@Machinehead) to be able to truly evaluate his individual play - let alone within the different line contexts, and context of the teams up and downs.

But to me, it feels like he's the same player being given a slightly longer leash. It looks like the team said "hey he can skate okay, he plays good physical D, he can give up the body... Will, you PK now."

does anyone see evidence of his growth as a player?
 
If the Rangers could acquire a first round pick in 2025 for Kreider and send that pick to Vancouver with the Rangers keeping their first in 2025 and the Rangers clear out the remaining drifters, that would not be so bad if they had to have JT back.
 
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it's absolutely relevant to the building of this roster at present and future to discuss whether this team can or can not properly develop and successfully deploy impact forwards, and why or why not.

i'm sorry, but references to kakko are a germane facet of that discussion. not "boo hoo we traded my favorite funny boi" or "lmao drury sux kakko ppg suck it," but actual observation. is anyone watching the kraken? or just reading box scores?

in fact, it's specifically an extremely useful case study for this generally accepted issue with the Rangers..

for example, to @SnowblindNYR point, did Seattle "develop him in 14 games?" Or did they take a player and deploy him properly, infuse him with confidence, and line him up with the right teammates? aka put him in a position to succeed?

Or is this a streak, borne perhaps of greater effort resulting from the trade? Or just mere shooting PDO luck - a complete nothingburger?

Again, really important things to talk about. We are looking at Lafreniere, a player who - like kakko - was universally regarded as having superstar potential. don't want to litigate the semantics of superstar, star, generational, elite. The point is: they were supposed to be GOOD.

I keep thinking about what @Machinehead would always condemn Kakko for - and now does the same for Laf: "he's the same bum he was when he came into the league."

I think about how we see other players on other teams take steps and leaps to grow in their efficacy and utility. They begin to do more things well. Lundell. Jarvis. Harley.

I think about how, yes, these are professional athletes, but that maybe Kakko previously and Laf now looking like the same players they've always been is the whole point. That's the disconnect. Players don't come into the league fully formed, as skilled as they may be. Talent, the kind that goes 1 or 2 overall, isn't just what they showed in juniors: it's an ability to grow and get better *better than peers.*

Our guys largely haven't been getting better *better than others.* In fact, they haven't really been getting better *at all.*

I believe the organization is to blame. I don't have a solution, because i don't know where the responsibility lies. But we need to be better at facilitating our young players to get better. They're just pretty much staying the same.

Take Cuylle - an example of relatively successful development.

He's PKing this year and flourishing in that role. Has he gotten better, though? Is he doing things he wasn't doing last year - structurally, defensively, individually, statistically?

I'm not well versed enough in either hockey game within the game (@LokiDog, your thoughts) or advanced metrics (@Machinehead) to be able to truly evaluate his individual play - let alone within the different line contexts, and context of the teams up and downs.

But to me, it feels like he's the same player being given a slightly longer leash. It looks like the team said "hey he can skate okay, he plays good physical D, he can give up the body... Will, you PK now."

does anyone see evidence of his growth as a player?

I will give the Kakko people a bone. Kakko is not as good as Buch was at the end with the Rangers BUT I did see some similarities in having trouble finishing and stuff. So there's a possibility he goes that route. However, there's also a big possibility it's a heater. He really hasn't shown any consistancy and whenever he had opportunities to score he used to flub it more than anything else. People saying "Kakko's linemates are now finishing his passes". Is that even true? I guess technically it is given his points. But there's gotta be more than this. He went from a team with decent talent offensively to one of the worst in the NHL. The Kraken are pretty damn low on talent. So how long is it going to be that they'll keep finishing at this high rate? And maybe we overrated how many chances Kakko created here because frankly we were not bereft of talent and I don't think that for 5 years somehow magically it was only Kakko that had passes not converted. Maybe we just paid special attention to when it happened to him because we wanted him to succeed.
 
I do think if JT comes in then Kreider goes for cap space next season
Finally, first time I see Kreider’s name mentioned since this extra hot air JTM talk acquired.

From what we heard and know the Rangers wanted to move Zibanejad and it fell through. The Rangers wanted Zibanejad included because of cap and it fell through because Zibanejad refused to waive NMC. Well next sizable contract is Kreider who happened to not have this NMC restriction. Both Miller and Zibanejad could play wing.

Couldn’t it be some Version of Kreider, Sykora (Jones) Chmelar?
 
I will give the Kakko people a bone. Kakko is not as good as Buch was at the end with the Rangers BUT I did see some similarities in having trouble finishing and stuff. So there's a possibility he goes that route. However, there's also a big possibility it's a heater. He really hasn't shown any consistancy and whenever he had opportunities to score he used to flub it more than anything else. People saying "Kakko's linemates are now finishing his passes". Is that even true? I guess technically it is given his points. But there's gotta be more than this. He went from a team with decent talent offensively to one of the worst in the NHL. The Kraken are pretty damn low on talent. So how long is it going to be that they'll keep finishing at this high rate? And maybe we overrated how many chances Kakko created here because frankly we were not bereft of talent and I don't think that for 5 years somehow magically it was only Kakko that had passes not converted. Maybe we just paid special attention to when it happened to him because we wanted him to succeed.
offense /= offense

i said it so f***ing often lol - kakkos flaw is that he doesn't adapt. He's like a windup toy - he does his thing, grinding, possessing the puck low, beautifully feeding high danger passes, and preventing chances against. The rangers as a team nor his teammates ever showed any interest or ability to fit with his thing. Ironically, i think his thing is how you win a cup in this league, but that's not relevant anymore.

I've been watching the Kraken a bit, for his shifts. He's not a new player. He's just on a line with two guys that respect his game and are willing to play off of him. As far as that line goes, it's f***ing working. S%, Sv%, xG%, it's all there.

whether the team wins or loses, well, as you know @SnowblindNYR, one goalie can yank a good effort.
 
offense /= offense

i said it so f***ing often lol - kakkos flaw is that he doesn't adapt. He's like a windup toy - he does his thing, grinding, possessing the puck low, beautifully feeding high danger passes, and preventing chances against. The rangers as a team nor his teammates ever showed any interest or ability to fit with his thing. Ironically, i think his thing is how you win a cup in this league, but that's not relevant anymore.

I've been watching the Kraken a bit, for his shifts. He's not a new player. He's just on a line with two guys that respect his game and are willing to play off of him. As far as that line goes, it's f***ing working. S%, Sv%, xG%, it's all there.

whether the team wins or loses, well, as you know @SnowblindNYR, one goalie can yank a good effort.

He's a good player, he's not some non-NHLer. But we got a fair return for him if Borgen continues playing like he has which is solid. My issue is with the idea that Kakko's play is a tragedy for us AND Borgen will fall off. You just can't view every player and every transaction through the lense of the good for the other team will continue and the good for our team wil end. It's just a miserable f***ing way to be a fan. And it's not being a realist. It's being a pessimist.
 
Sorry to hear about your loss Steven. f*** cancer.

She was in remission a few years ago, then in 2022 she got the news she had 12 months to live. She was able to stretch that out to almost 24 months, which allowed her to attend my wedding in New York. I try to focus on the fact that we got more time with her than expected. She got to meet my in-laws, my wife and was able to see a bit of the world with trips to New York, Vienna and Dublin since that diagnosis.

The tough moments still sneak up on me. Stuff I want to share with her. Not getting a message on my birthday. Not hearing from her on our 1st wedding anniversary, which was 10 days after she passed, hurt a lot because she would 100% have sent a message first thing in the morning. She was that type of mom.

But, we move on. We try to cherish the good moments, and keep her memory alive.
 
From what we heard and know the Rangers wanted to move Zibanejad and it fell through. The Rangers wanted Zibanejad included because of cap and it fell through because Zibanejad refused to waive NMC.
Do you know something we dont? Because what you are saying goes against all known reports.

Larry in his latest article confirmed that Zibanejad never was a piece in the trade talks with Vancouver.
 
No you are just in denial. Its stupid to say a team that has made 2 of the last 3 conference finals isn't good enough to win. Frankly it's a loser mentality.

Rangers upgraded their defense by swapping Trouba for Borg. Goody for Carrick has been a huge upgrade as well. They also added Smith who has been pretty good. Now they have 8 million to spend to hopefully upgrade Lindgren. If this team gets JT who is a perfect match up for a teams top scoring center, they legitimately are a top team to beat. People can cry over the losing streak all they want but talent wise as long as everyone is healthy this team should be in the playoffs and an extremely difficult out.
All that but they dug themselves in bit of hole and will have no room for error coming back.
 
Trading Chytil Chlemar and Sykora for JT Miller is such a coup that even if you’re not in the trade youth for vets camp you have to do that trade. I love Chytil he’s a dynamic player but he can’t stay healthy and he is more than half Miller’s cap. The guy scored 99 points recently and is an absolute bulldog. It’s a no brainer deal
 
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