Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[Trxjw]

Not sure I get the "Miller will change the culture" argument when he can't even do that on the team he's currently playing for and is thus about to be traded.

Also the fact that he's allegedly forcing his way here is a red flag.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I’m going to enjoy the kakko takes when his on ice sh% doesn’t stay at 70000%

We’ve been on this end of it before. Remember Ryan Spooner?

At 5v5 he is at a very good 2.72 pts / 60 with a on ice shooting % of 12.50% which is pretty in line w his career avg.

Total s% is up but influenced by 1) PP time and 2) PP luck / high s%.

You can argue small sample size, but shooting % is not a great argument given what he is going at 5v5.

 

[NYR Viper]

Miller, Zibanejad and Trocheck will be 32 years old. Kreider and Panarin will be 34 years old. The Rangers are winning with these graybeards as the core of a Cup winning team? Did Drury suffer an aneurysm?

What if they traded Kreider and Panarin but kept the first three? Trochek is on an amazing contract. I don’t care how old he is.

 

[Graves94]

Miller, Zibanejad and Trocheck will be 32 years old. Kreider and Panarin will be 34 years old. The Rangers are winning with these graybeards as the core of a Cup winning team? Did Drury suffer an aneurysm?

Kreider & Mika are gone in the summer and Panarin in summer '26

 

[NYR Viper]

Trading for JT right now and it not being about this season makes no sense to me

all they would do in that scenario is kick the can down the road a year when JT is one year older and closer to decline

It’s a retool for sure not a rebuild but there’s a big difference between acquiring Miller but understanding that this year is what it is or acquiring Miller and going all in for this season.

I could see a retool while opening up cap space.

Not sure I get the "Miller will change the culture" argument when he can't even do that on the team he's currently playing for and is thus about to be traded.

Also the fact that he's allegedly forcing his way here is a red flag.

He and Trochek are close. I’d take a more skilled Trochek and add him to that next leadership group. Time to shuffle out the other guys. They would also fit with the next groups of young players (Cuylle, Othmann, Berard, Rempe, Edstrom and even Laba is physical)

 

[duhmetreE]

Miller, Zibanejad and Trocheck will be 32 years old. Kreider and Panarin will be 34 years old. The Rangers are winning with these graybeards as the core of a Cup winning team? Did Drury suffer an aneurysm?

that's why you trade Zibs and Kreider.

Cuylle and Laffy need to step up. Hopefully a player like Gabe can fill the Panarin role in a couple years. We also have a Sam Carrick.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I want to point out that since 2019 Rangers fans have done nothing but trash Kakko and Laf as busts with the exception of last year for Laf. This year we once again trash him as a bust. But God forbid there's a trade rumor and you guys are done with the organization. Literally the Rangers can do no right with you guys. If they play they're terrible busts, if they get traded this organization is terrible. HFNYR is literally miserable no matter what.

 

[DanielBrassard]

What if they traded Kreider and Panarin but kept the first three? Trochek is on an amazing contract. I don’t care how old he is.

How do you account for having 3 32 year old centers, 1 of which is in serious decline and the other two play heavy brands of hockey and have a lot of miles on them? Seems like a really bad idea.

 

[RangerBoy]

I pray to god NJ swoops in here and makes a dynamite offer to Vancouver and saves Drury from himself

Miller is a better fit with the Devils. He is better fit with Hughes, Bratt and Nico. The Devils need some size in their top 6. Meier has been somewhat of a disappointment. Paid all of that money after making the trade. $8.8M. His role is different in NJ.

Window open for another three seasons? The rangers just had a three year window with this group of players, and they f***ing got embarrassed in the conference finals twice. By the way, all of those players are worse than they were in that previous window. The sad thing is, this team has a chance to really reload for 2026 if they do things the right way.

I wish someone who would challenge Brooks on his statement. This group? The Rangers folded against TB. They reallly had no business being up 2-1 in the Florida series. Miller is changing the script all by himself? Kreider and Mika are in decline. We kept trying to fit Kakko with the wonder twins and blamed Kakko when it didn’t work out. They need a play making winger. No they just stink. Trocheck is a very good player. EF said teams covet Trocheck but somehow a 32 year old Trocheck is untouchable. Panarin seems off. I am not a big Fox fan. I think he wears down the playoffs or suffers some injury which hinders him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

At 5v5 he is at a very good 2.72 pts / 60 with a on ice shooting % of 12.50% which is pretty in line w his career avg.

Total s% is up but influenced by 1) PP time and 2) PP luck / high s%.

You can argue small sample size, but shooting % is not a great argument given what he is going at 5v5.

Not individual sh%, OI Sh% as in the percentage of shots that go in when he's on the ice, period.

12.5 individually isn't anything crazy and it isn't anything he hasn't done before (it wouldn't even be his career high.) That's probably sustainable to a certain degree and even if it holds all year and then falls back a bit after that, there isn't going to be a dramatic drop off there.

He's at 14+ all situations and nearly 11% 5v5 in on ice sh%. That is what won't hold.

Both numbers would dwarf what Panarin did last year (in a 120 pt season where he also shot the lights out) and his current all situations sh% would be his career high by like 5%. Theres no way thats his new norm because that would make him the best player in the league.

This is basically every Byfield heater ever where the overall numbers are pretty good or very good most of the time but the actual production jumps when other people around him get really hot. He'll fall back to earth and his tire pumpers will grow silent while his haters will take every opportunity to shit on him when the reality is that he's still the same guy he's always been. Analytically he isn't really a whole lot better than he was with the Rangers this year and certainly not better than he was before Chytil missed some time and that line was cooking everyone.

Higher TOI and PP1 minutes will make a difference and I don't doubt that getting a fresh start has helped him mentally too, but he didn't just go from a solid player to a star because he got the chance. He's been good, but it's luck driven too.

 

[RangerBoy]

that's why you trade Zibs and Kreider.

Cuylle and Laffy need to step up. Hopefully a player like Gabe can fill the Panarin role in a couple years. We also have a Sam Carrick.

These guys have a thing for Kreider. He has more lives than a cat. He was on the block during the 2018 and 2019 deadlines. More 2019. He was on the block that summer. 2020 deadline. Signed an extension.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You’re delusional if you think Borgen is better then kakko lol

Kakko was a frustrating player that didn't produce here with any consistency. All of a sudden he's a superstar because Rangers fans hate this organization. Borgen has stabilized our defense and we're 5-0-2 in the last 7 games. Borgen has been a top 4 caliber player that stabilized Miller's game. That's just as valuable if not more than a middle 6 player. For some reason the mythology of Kakko has gone through the roof even though his whole career here all we've been doing trashing him. Because Rangers fans LOVE to complain and be toxic.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

How do you account for having 3 32 year old centers, 1 of which is in serious decline and the other two play heavy brands of hockey and have a lot of miles on them? Seems like a really bad idea.

Yeah honestly I have no interest in keeping Mika around if this trade goes down.

I don't think JTM stops them from really reshaping the roster, especially if the cap goes up as much as it apparently is going to jump but their needs to be a commitment to getting the current core out of here and reallocating those dollars to different players.

You can do a lot with the dollars of Kreider and Mika and even more if you can convince Panarin to finish out his contract elsewhere. I'd be more than happy to move on from all 3.

A Trade/UFA heavy approach isn't the end of the world as long as you commit to a certain direction. We have enough young talent to fill roles on ELC contracts to off set big money, but thats only really going to work for a few years but thats where we're at. A full tear down is not going to happen.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Not individual sh%, OI Sh% as in the percentage of shots that go in when he's on the ice, period.

12.5 individually isn't anything crazy and it isn't anything he hasn't done before (it wouldn't even be his career high.) That's probably sustainable to a certain degree and even if it holds all year and then falls back a bit after that, there isn't going to be a dramatic drop off there.

He's at 14+ all situations and nearly 11% 5v5 in on ice sh%. That is what won't hold.

Both numbers would dwarf what Panarin did last year (in a 120 pt season where he also shot the lights out) and his current all situations sh% would be his career high by like 5%. Theres no way thats his new norm because that would make him the best player in the league.

This is basically every Byfield heater ever where the overall numbers are pretty good or very good most of the time but the actual production jumps when other people around him get really hot. He'll fall back to earth and his tire pumpers will grow silent while his haters will take every opportunity to shit on him when the reality is that he's still the same guy he's always been. Analytically he isn't really a whole lot better than he was with the Rangers this year and certainly not better than he was before Chytil missed some time and that line was cooking everyone.

Higher TOI and PP1 minutes will make a difference and I don't doubt that getting a fresh start has helped him mentally too, but he didn't just go from a solid player to a star because he got the chance. He's been good, but it's luck driven too.

Fair points, and yes I pulled the wrong s%, idk why NST switches from on-ice to individual when looking at player on-ice history.

10.75% is high 5v5 s% over the long term, agreed. He also has a very high personal pts % of team scoring w Seattle. But even at 9% he is likely over 2 pts / 60 at 5v5 which is very good. He is playing very well at 5v5, in a small sample size.

I've derailed this thread enough talking about Kakko. It comes from being incredibly frustrated w NYR inability to draft and develop scoring forwards.

 

[MrAlmost]

Rangers don't work on Sundays guys. No need to hang around.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Kakko has the best xGF% on the Kraken since joining there. His linemates go from a 19.96% (Beniers in 20 mins apart) and 34.35% (Schwartz in 41 mins apart), to 54.23% (Beniers, in 177 mins together) and 57.5% (Schwartz in 157 mins together). Kinda like how Cuylle and Chytil's numbers also drop off hard away from Kakko this season.

Maybe he is, in fact, better than people want to give him credit for being

Cuylly and Chytil aren't even playing together anymore, so it's not like Kakko is the only change. Kakko is a fine player, but people that think his production will hold up are in for a rude awakening. Players going on heaters after being traded is a tale as old as time. I think being a steady but unspectacular defenseman is a lot more sustainable (Borgen) than being a PPG guy without PPG skill.

 

[Siddi]

He’d waive for Chicago

He would?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Fair points, and yes I pulled the wrong s%, idk why NST switches from on-ice to individual when looking at player on-ice history.

10.75% is high 5v5 s% over the long term, agreed. He also has a very high personal pts % of team scoring w Seattle. But even at 9% he is likely over 2 pts / 60 at 5v5 which is very good. He is playing very well at 5v5, in a small sample size.

I've derailed this thread enough talking about Kakko. It comes from being incredibly frustrated w NYR inability to draft and develop scoring forwards.

The Kraken developed him in like 14 games. I'm sure that's what happened.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

THe Kraken developed him in like 14 games. I'm sure that's what happened.

Players are human beings and confidence influences production, crazy thought.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Seriously, if we look at this objectively and assume the deal is Chytil + prospects for Miller there would appear to be a pretty direct way to make this team competitive. Drury could conceivably buy and sell in the same season and revamp the roster. By this I mean:

Chytil + Sykora + Chmelar for Miller

Kreider to LA for 1st ‘25 + 2nd ‘25 + 2nd ‘26

Panarin to Dallas for Bischel + DAL 1st ‘25 + DAL 2nd ‘26

Smith to Vegas for 2nd + 4th

Lindgren at 50% for 2nd + 5th

For now let’s assume Drury re-signs Borgen at 5 years for $3.5m per season

The roster next year, with an absolute boatload of cap space to play with is:

Lafreniere-Miller-______
Cuylle-Zibanejad-______
Othmann-Trochek-Berard
Edstrom-Carrick-Rempe

Schneider-Fox
Miller-Borgen
Bischel-______
Vaakanainen

They’d have A TON of cap space here to play with likely. Bennett, Rantanen, Marner. Big trade? Drury would have options and the team would be significantly harder to play against

Sounds great but I doubt any of this happens, I see the rangers continue to trade their youth for old vets. They will self rent Lindy, keep cry Baby krieder, self rent smith and keep panarin.

I highly doubt this is drurys thoughts.

 

[Siddi]

Kreider & Mika are gone in the summer and Panarin in summer '26

Not according to Larry. According to his comments in the podcast and his latest article, Drury is willing to give this core 3 more seasons.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Players are human beings and confidence influences production, crazy thought.

Yeah but we've seen Kakko have confidence for 10-15 games before and then completely losing it.

 

[AirGut]

Remember when we were supposed to give up Kakko and the 1st for Patrick Kane? Remember when we were supposed to give up Kreider or Stepan for Rick Nash? I wouldn't worry too much about any Lafreniere + Schneider talk at this stage of the process. Initially I'm sure that's what was being asked by Patrik Allvin but now that the jig is up and they've decided officially that Miller is the guy out, most definitely not.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Yeah but we've seen Kakko have confidence for 10-15 games before and then completely losing it.

I’ve said over and over it’s a small sample size. But it’s frustrating to see, especially in the context of this organization’s inability to draft and develop scoring forwards.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I’ve said over and over it’s a small sample size. But it’s frustrating to see, especially in the context of this organization’s inability to draft and develop scoring forwards.

People are acting like we traded for Sammy Blais. Borgen has been very good for this team and is a big part of its resurgence.