Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[McRanger92]

Peter Baugh wrote an article for The Athletic where he projected what our guys might get.

For Lindgren, he said he might be worth a 2nd to a desperate team. He mentioned EJ and Edmundson and that we could possibly retain. Also said a 2nd is probably higher than they'd get.

For Reilly Smith he pegged it as a 3rd or 4th. Mentioned Duclair deal and Jack Roslovic last year.

For Vesey he said it's probably a 5th or 6th. He mentioned guys like Pat Maroon and Anthony Beauvillier as comps.

On Will Borgen, he said the team has a dilemma as he's probably the most valuable player but they also want to bring him back. He didn't specificy a return but based on what he said for others, you'd think a second or more.

Jones he said doesn't have much value on the market.

Vaakanainen he compared to Ruhwedel and said he may be worth a 4th or around there. He also said the Rangers might want to hold onto him.

Everyone be reasonable with their expectations for these guys if they are moved. Borgen I agree is the most valuable and the rest aren't worth much.

Fast forward 2 months when the rangers re-sign Borgen and everyone cries because "we could've gotten a first for him!".

 

[Machinehead]

A 2nd round pick only has a 34% chance of even being an NHL regular. Half of the NHL regulars are below average.

I'd absolutely do that for Lindgren, because I'm not all that interested in seeing him play for this team at all.

If Borgen continues his play from the last few games, he might be somebody I'm interested in bringing back.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I don’t understand why people think Kakko doesn’t compare to Buchnevich.

Buchnevich developed for 5 years (21-25) at the NHL level and never cracked 21 G or 48 P. Was traded before his age 26 season.

Kakko developed for 5.5 years (18-23) and never cracked 18 G or 40 P. Was traded at 23 midseason.

Both were guys the team was grooming to be a top 6 RW.

Both were traded for less than their perceived future value.

The only difference is Buchnevich was consistently mid and Kakko dealt with injuries and Covid so his production was less. Kakko was arguably a more effective player, putting aside points, than Buch was with the Rangers.

Your post was fine until you pulled out the Covid excuse. I don't get this at all...Everyone dealt with Covid, it's not like he was alone on an island with it.

 

[NYR Viper]

Peter Baugh wrote an article for The Athletic where he projected what our guys might get.

For Lindgren, he said he might be worth a 2nd to a desperate team. He mentioned EJ and Edmundson and that we could possibly retain. Also said a 2nd is probably higher than they'd get.

For Reilly Smith he pegged it as a 3rd or 4th. Mentioned Duclair deal and Jack Roslovic last year.

For Vesey he said it's probably a 5th or 6th. He mentioned guys like Pat Maroon and Anthony Beauvillier as comps.

On Will Borgen, he said the team has a dilemma as he's probably the most valuable player but they also want to bring him back. He didn't specificy a return but based on what he said for others, you'd think a second or more.

Jones he said doesn't have much value on the market.

Vaakanainen he compared to Ruhwedel and said he may be worth a 4th or around there. He also said the Rangers might want to hold onto him.

Everyone be reasonable with their expectations for these guys if they are moved. Borgen I agree is the most valuable and the rest aren't worth much.

I think asking for a 2nd for Lindgren and Smith isn't that outlandish honestly though. I often feel that there is a disconnect in people's thoughts when it comes specifically to 2nd rounders. An early 2nd rounder is what most people peg the value of any 2nd rounder to but that's a pick from 32-40. 40-62 I think have very different value. A late 2nd for a player like Lindgren is reasonable, especially if it's 50-62. Same goes for Smith.

Smith is a very good 2-way winger who also PK's. Duclair has some sort of cloud hanging over him. No team that he has been on has wanted to hold on to him and defensively, he's severely lacking. Roslovic is the same.

I think the other ones are right on. 5th or 6th for Vesey.

 

[Machinehead]

You also have to kind of gauge the dollar value for Borgen. If somebody wants to give him 6.5, you probably take the flier on a draft pick.

I don't think that's there. I think you get him for around 4 x 3.8. I probably do that. I don't f*** around with defensemen. There's only six of them. You can't hide bad players as well as you can with forwards. You need six NHL defensemen.

That's if Borgen continues to play well. He's had nice seasons and he's had rough seasons. We'll see.

 

[McRanger92]

I think asking for a 2nd for Lindgren and Smith isn't that outlandish honestly though. I often feel that there is a disconnect in people's thoughts when it comes specifically to 2nd rounders. An early 2nd rounder is what most people peg the value of any 2nd rounder to but that's a pick from 32-40. 40-62 I think have very different value. A late 2nd for a player like Lindgren is reasonable, especially if it's 50-62. Same goes for Smith.

Smith is a very good 2-way winger who also PK's. Duclair has some sort of cloud hanging over him. No team that he has been on has wanted to hold on to him and defensively, he's severely lacking. Roslovic is the same.

I think the other ones are right on. 5th or 6th for Vesey.

I think Reilly Smith has more value than Baugh says. Any contending team would want him in their middle 6. He's having a pretty good year in a team surrounded by turmoil. Won a Cup just 2 years ago as a top 6 player. A western conference team would be all over him at 50% retained from the Rangers imo. Id even ask what he would want on a short term deal to come back. Im not as bullish on that as Borgen, but he's played well enough that its worth an ask.

 

[Machinehead]

Reilly Smith is excellent. Always has been and will be until he's too old. A player I've admired for a long time.

The guy is a Honda at even strength. It's not a Lambo, but he's as reliable as the day is long. Drives play in the right direction like clockwork.

He would have been a hell of a move if we were better equipped to contend this year.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

says the poster who rarely contributes anything of substance and can barely muster ha-ha in response to constructive comments

physician, look in the mirror and heal thyself

I think you're confused about the word constructive. The word you are searching for is delusional.

 

[JohnC]

I always appreciated that Bern uses this thread for exactly what it is: a thread where posters waste their time playing NHL Be a GM mode and cook up trades and signings in their head that won't happen 99% of the time.

At least Bern's creative about it.

 

[haohmaru]

I always appreciated that Bern uses this thread for exactly what it is: a thread where posters waste their time playing NHL Be a GM mode and cook up trades and signings in their head that won't happen 99% of the time.

At least Bern's creative about it.

Creative is a word for it. I guess.

 

[LORDE]

Messier

Sorry... yeah I was being hyperbolic.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The Dolan fearmongering amongst Rangers fans is ridiculous.

He's a slimy prick and sometimes does stupid things. That's every owner.

The idea that the Rangers are in a unique situation with their ownership is just letting the hockey people off the hook for failing to run the hockey team.

Yeah… I would tend to agree. Fans should be thankful he’s got another toy that he cares more about (Knicks)

Largely speaking it seems like he just signs the checks and f***s off. I’m sure he’s got his spots where he makes things worse, but on the list of problems, he’s closer to the bottom than the top (for me anyways)

To me his biggest failure is having unyielding faith in people he deems “his guys”. Like Sather or soon to be Drury.

 

[pld459666]

The hope is that he'll hire somebody who gives a f*** and has a plan. It should be a low bar.

Drury was Gorton's AGM, and Gorton was Sather's AGM, so I do fear that we're still just getting sap from the same tree.

And tjat tree should have been cut down before the 05-06 season

 

[McRanger92]

Yeah… I would tend to agree. Fans should be thankful he’s got another toy that he cares more about (Knicks)

Largely speaking it seems like he just signs the checks and f***s off. I’m sure he’s got his spots where he makes things worse, but on the list of problems, he’s closer to the bottom than the top (for me anyways)

To me his biggest failure is having unyielding faith in people he deems “his guys”. Like Sather or soon to be Drury.

Dolan is a good owner when the team is successful and a bad owner when they arent. The only think that will get a real reaction out of JD is when the team starts getting publicly embarrassed (Wilson/Panarin incident, the recent player mutiny, etc.). I get it tbh. I think it's pretty obvious he is spending most of his time recently on the Sphere project.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Dolan is a good owner when the team is successful and a bad owner when they arent. The only think that will get a real reaction out of JD is when the team starts getting publicly embarrassed (Wilson/Panarin incident, the recent player mutiny, etc.). I get it tbh. I think it's pretty obvious he is spending most of his time recently on the Sphere project.

Dolan is a good owner because he is fine with not just spending to the cap, but also the things that lure free agents in.
Small Things like the player per diem.
He has relative patience for a rebuild, he doesn’t meddle too much (Kane move aside)
And his expectations for a team are usually reasonable.

Does he give too much rope to gm’s/coaches? Absolutely. But the alternative is even worse.

 

[Siddi]

says the poster who rarely contributes anything of substance and can barely muster ha-ha in response to constructive comments

physician, look in the mirror and heal thyself

Hey now! My sexy flamingos after playoff wins is one of the most substantial contributions this board ever seen.

My legacy is safe.

 

[Machinehead]

There are plenty of criticisms of Dolan, but my criticisms of Dolan boil down to him being a billionaire lizard man and covering up/doing a bunch of weird sex stuff, as billionaire lizard men tend to do.

As far as hockey guys, "we can't do [sensible thing] because something something Dolan" feels like a meme and just isn't a useful talking point.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Creative is a word for it. I guess.

I guess if you want to call preposterous ideas creative.

Trading key players before their contract protection kicks in. Acquiring over the hill D only to pencil them in at wing. Dolan f***ing buying Staal's house to facilitate a trade. Trading everyone over 25 for his current player fixations minus over the hill, ineffective Kreider. Calling up absolute failures that have proven they can't cut it and saying the team needs to live with "growing pains."

 

[Machinehead]

In my opinion, people are entitled to have a bit of fun in roster building. If it's too rich for your blood, you don't have to engage with it.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

ya’ll talk to much shit about Bern

Lighten up, it’s a hockey forum. You’re not running a team

 

[Siddi]

There are plenty of criticisms of Dolan, but my criticisms of Dolan boil down to him being a billionaire lizard man and covering up/doing a bunch of weird sex stuff, as billionaire lizard men tend to do.

As far as hockey guys, "we can't do [sensible thing] because something something Dolan" feels like a meme and just isn't a useful talking point.

"Weird sex stuff" is not inherently bad.

ya’ll talk to much shit about Bern

Lighten up, it’s a hockey forum. You’re not running a team

Bern believes he does.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I always appreciated that Bern uses this thread for exactly what it is: a thread where posters waste their time playing NHL Be a GM mode and cook up trades and signings in their head that won't happen 99% of the time.

At least Bern's creative about it.

I would have appreciated it a lot more if his posts were in jest like Ed's are. But he's 100% serious and rants and raves about his haters when people tell him they're unrealistic.

 

[effen]

We'll even take Nils back.

Don't speak that into existence.

 

[Machinehead]

"Weird sex stuff" is not inherently bad.

It is the way he does it (allegedly).

 

[Machinehead]

I would have appreciated it a lot more if his posts were in jest like Ed's are. But he's 100% serious and rants and raves about his haters when people tell him they're unrealistic.

I don't know, I tell @bernmeister he's crazy all the time, and I never found him combative about it.