Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[Boris Zubov]

The player's had to know changes were coming after losing to Florida. If they gave Goodrow an hour's notice, instead of 15 minutes, are all the bad feelings avoided? I doubt it. They were going to pout regardless.

Boo hoo. As I've said previously, you want to stay here, play better.

These guys are still mourning over Tuba...give me a f***ing break. Drury went half measure by stopping at Goodrow in the summer & he nuked the entire season by letting it fester & then waiting 25 games to finally do what should've been done in July.

And after all that he still did the decent thing & let that f***ing entitled whiny crybaby have a voice in where he wound up. Poor baby got his full salary & a new place in Sunny So Cal, THE HORROR!!! Yet the rest of the locker room is still seething over the "in-justice". How anyone in their right mind can argue we don't have a culture problem is mind blowing.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I agree, talking about the HOF is extremely premature. The priority should be regaining his peak form & taking his conditioning way more seriously than he has.

If I was his coach that would be the angle I would take. I would tell him that we made a commitment to him and we would like him to make a commitment to improving his motor and request to work with him on some off days, after practices, and in the off season. Tell him you would like to help him improve his stamina. Now if guys see Fox working on his stamina after practices I'm sure a few other guys would ask to join him. That would help everyone. People might be surprised how much help 30 minutes of conditioning drills can do for a player after practice. Once Fox's motor improved his confidence would grow as well imo.

 

[SA16]

Fox is not playing like a HOF this season imo. Whether that is due to his knee injury I can not say. If he bounces back maybe the HOF will be in the discussion but at this point he really needs to get back to playing at an all star level never mind at a HOF level. Now to be fair a knee injury is no joke and sometimes take 1-2 years for a guy to really bounce back. In the old days some guys were never able to regain 100% speed after knee injuries.

Fox this year at 5v5:

CF%: Best of his career
xG%: Best of his career
GF%: 4th best of his career (but, to be fair, he has five seasons between 58% and 60% so all about the same)
Pts/60: 4th best of his career (while shooting 0% with the same expected goal rate as he always has)
Assists/60: Best of his career

Maximum Skating Speed: Higher than last year and higher than the year before, which would seem to poke holes in the skating issues due to a knee injury.

His PP stats are worse but the entire PP has been worse and from what everyone tells me Mika can't hit the net with his one timer and Kreider isn't playing in front of the net the way he should so is he to blame for that?

So what is he doing so wrong if he has the best stats of his career in many categories? How were his previous years "All Star Level" but this year not when the results are similar/better? There's no 5v5 category where he has vastly worse numbers this year than usual outside of the one due to him shooting 0%. If you think suddenly he became the worst shooter in the NHL over the offseason well, ok, I guess but I don't know what would make you think that.

I really don't understand this narrative. It's the classic HF. The team has had a lot of issues but let's blame the best player(s) who haven't been the issue. That and the usual bias against older players, non-physical players, and slower skaters and Fox fits two of those categories.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Henrik didn't throw a hissy fit and if he did, I'd have wanted to trade his arse as well.

Who said Kreider threw a hissy fit or are we just projecting?

And Henrik would throw hissy fits on the ice when he blamed others for his goals allowed.

 

[Guyute]

Fox this year at 5v5:

CF%: Best of his career
xG%: Best of his career
GF%: 4th best of his career (but, to be fair, he has five seasons between 58% and 60% so all about the same)
Pts/60: 4th best of his career (while shooting 0% with the same expected goal rate as he always has)
Assists/60: Best of his career

Maximum Skating Speed: Higher than last year and higher than the year before, which would seem to poke holes in the skating issues due to a knee injury.

His PP stats are worse but the entire PP has been worse and from what everyone tells me Mika can't hit the net with his one timer and Kreider isn't playing in front of the net the way he should so is he to blame for that?

So what is he doing so wrong if he has the best stats of his career in many categories? How were his previous years "All Star Level" but this year not when the results are similar/better? There's no 5v5 category where he has vastly worse numbers this year than usual outside of the one due to him shooting 0%. If you think suddenly he became the worst shooter in the NHL over the offseason well, ok, I guess but I don't know what would make you think that.

I really don't understand this narrative. It's the classic HF. The team has had a lot of issues but let's blame the best player(s) who haven't been the issue.

SA16, this is HFBoards. Stop letting the facts get in the way of a good narrative.

 

[McRanger92]

Boo hoo. As I've said previously, you want to stay here, play better.

These guys are still mourning over Tuba...give me a f***ing break. Drury went half measure by stopping at Goodrow in the summer & he nuked the entire season by letting it fester & then waiting 25 games to finally do what should've been done in July.

And after all that he still did the decent thing & let that f***ing entitled whiny crybaby have a voice in where he wound up. Poor baby got his full salary & a new place in Sunny So Cal, THE HORROR!!! Yet the rest of the locker room is still seething over the "in-justice". How anyone in their right mind can argue we don't have a culture problem is mind blowing.

The culture problem is so obvious and runs so deep Im worried that some of our young players may be tainted by it if we dont trade the problem children very soon.

 

[NikC]

Sports breakups, for the most part, are usually undignified. It's simply the nature of the biz & there's no shame in it. Brian Leetch was an icon & he was dumped unceremoniously. I don't think he ever played at MSG again because he was injured when he was a Bruin. Look at how they treated Hank, etc. Shit happens & it's rare that you get to choose your own ending.

so context is key here... Leetch and Hank were moved toward the end of their careers and during retools/rebuilding

Now, this version of the rangers came of a president's trophy season...

they signed Goodrow for leadership, etc. and for grit in the playoffs.. he had two big games against Florida in the ECF... they threw him out the back door...

 

[Kocur Dill]

Boo hoo. As I've said previously, you want to stay here, play better.

These guys are still mourning over Tuba...give me a f***ing break. Drury went half measure by stopping at Goodrow in the summer & he nuked the entire season by letting it fester & then waiting 25 games to finally do what should've been done in July.

And after all that he still did the decent thing & let that f***ing entitled whiny crybaby have a voice in where he wound up. Poor baby got his full salary & a new place in Sunny So Cal, THE HORROR!!! Yet the rest of the locker room is still seething over the "in-justice". How anyone in their right mind can argue we don't have a culture problem is mind blowing.

After the Trouba trade, on the National Broadcast game Anson Carter said, he understood the family situation and was sympathetic to it, but also finished by saying that was the reason he waited to have a family until after he retired.

 

[kovazub94]

Kreider is a net front presence on the PP. Still one of the best in the NHL. He is still a very good player. Kreider gives them more size. They get an experienced player whom their president of hockey operations knows extremely well. The Habs are under a bit of pressure to get the team headed in the right direction. They can't keep rebuilding forever.

Yup. They already brought or kept some vets so interest in Kreider would not be far fetched.

Why can't he be that for us?

Now you’re asking a different question - why would the Rangers would consider moving Kreider. Would he be cost effective to be a part of Panarin, Cuylle and Kreider left side.

 

[NikC]

Are you blaming Drury for that or Igor?

I have no problem with what Drury did in dumping Trouba and Goodrow. Neither of them should have been acquired/signed in the first place. If the remaining players are too upset about it to do their jobs, they can be moved too.

i blame them both.. Igor for overvaluing his importance to this team.. and Drury for overpaying the goalie position

not sure what the bolded even means. Dolan gave Drury a mandate to win... rangers were getting beaten to a pulp .. thats why Goodrow was signed. Did we have a crystal ball to see that Trouba wouldn't live up to his contract/performance-wise?

 

[Kocur Dill]

so context is key here... Leetch and Hank were moved toward the end of their careers and during retools/rebuilding

Now, this version of the rangers came of a president's trophy season...

they signed Goodrow for leadership, etc. and for grit in the playoffs.. he had two big games against Florida in the ECF... they threw him out the back door...

Reading between the tea leaves, dumping Goody and attempting the same with Trouba, Drury must have had a side deal lined up or they were trageting a big fish in FA.

Goody made/makes his money in the playoffs. He wasnt the problem outside of needing his salary off the books. He was a high motor player, just past his prime unfortunatly.

 

[Rangers in 7]

i think we all agree with him to a point... but treating people in an undignified way is bad for business... some businesses will always operate like this, treating people like S*it... they deserve each other.


the rangers are doing so many things wrong right now it's hard to keep track.


yeah i get it.. thx. but when you're building a team.. chemistry, morale, leadership... all of the virtues you teach and cultivate, shouldn't come at the expense of cap dumps to overpay a goalie

I mean if you watch the games, this team is playing like shit. This isn’t treating players badly. Some of these guys are total liabilities and not playing to their contracts. Players get traded all the time. It’s part of the deal. If any of these guys were remotely playing to their contracts they wouldn’t have to worry about getting shipped out.

 

[Boris Zubov]

so context is key here... Leetch and Hank were moved toward the end of their careers and during retools/rebuilding

Now, this version of the rangers came of a president's trophy season...

they signed Goodrow for leadership, etc. and for grit in the playoffs.. he had two big games against Florida in the ECF... they threw him out the back door...

Hank & Brian Leetch are franchise icons. Goodrow was owed NOTHING. We overpaid him to sign here & play on the 4th line because he was along for the ride on 2 Cup winners.

I'm not sure what you're actually advocating here? Players move in sports ALL the time. The lower on the food chain you are, the more it happens.

 

[Mr Mxmzptlk]

so context is key here... Leetch and Hank were moved toward the end of their careers and during retools/rebuilding

Now, this version of the rangers came of a president's trophy season...

they signed Goodrow for leadership, etc. and for grit in the playoffs.. he had two big games against Florida in the ECF... they threw him out the back door...

Goodrow was a victim of his contract -- everyone knew and talked ad nauseum about the fact that the Rangers had to dump salary and he was the most logical choice. I honestly don't see why everyone was so surprised at what happened.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Fox this year at 5v5:

CF%: Best of his career
xG%: Best of his career
GF%: 4th best of his career (but, to be fair, he has five seasons between 58% and 60% so all about the same)
Pts/60: 4th best of his career (while shooting 0% with the same expected goal rate as he always has)
Assists/60: Best of his career

Maximum Skating Speed: Higher than last year and higher than the year before, which would seem to poke holes in the skating issues due to a knee injury.

His PP stats are worse but the entire PP has been worse and from what everyone tells me Mika can't hit the net with his one timer and Kreider isn't playing in front of the net the way he should so is he to blame for that?

So what is he doing so wrong if he has the best stats of his career in many categories? How were his previous years "All Star Level" but this year not when the results are similar/better? There's no 5v5 category where he has vastly worse numbers this year than usual outside of the one due to him shooting 0%. If you think suddenly he became the worst shooter in the NHL over the offseason well, ok, I guess but I don't know what would make you think that.

I really don't understand this narrative. It's the classic HF. The team has had a lot of issues but let's blame the best player(s) who haven't been the issue. That and the usual bias against older players, non-physical players, and slower skaters and Fox fits two of those categories.

Those stats may have their place but they are not my bible. If you only go by those stats and not what you see on the ice then do goals scored count? How many goals does Fox have in almost half a season? Yes Mika and CK have not played well but are they now to blame for Fox not having any goals? Lindy has a goal. Mancini has a goal.

You posted several stats saying best of his career. So if you believe in those stats do you think Fox is having one of the best seasons of his career?

 

[I Eat Crow]

Kreider is a net front presence on the PP. Still one of the best in the NHL. He is still a very good player. Kreider gives them more size. They get an experienced player whom their president of hockey operations knows extremely well. The Habs are under a bit of pressure to get the team headed in the right direction. They can't keep rebuilding forever.

There's no chance Montreal's fan base signs off on that. He's still public enemy #1 over there from 10 years ago. It would be like if Denis Potvin signed with the Rangers at the end of his career to play with Marcel Dionne.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Who said Kreider threw a hissy fit or are we just projecting?

And Henrik would throw hissy fits on the ice when he blamed others for his goals allowed.

My understanding is that Henrik was one of the hardest working players in the game, that and his HOF body of work buys some attitude latitude.

Same can be said about Krieder but I think the nostalgic feelings currency is running out if he’s a problem in the room today.

 

[egelband]

Why can't he be that for us?

We don’t get power plays

 

[bernmeister]

HFDocs trying to retroactively ruin my Christmas.

go to Christmas thread w/my music
relax

 

[McRanger92]

Reading between the tea leaves, dumping Goody and attempting the same with Trouba, Drury must have had a side deal lined up or they were trageting a big fish in FA.

Goody made/makes his money in the playoffs. He wasnt the problem outside of needing his salary off the books. He was a high motor player, just past his prime unfortunatly.

I think the Rangers plan was to sign Guentzel. They desperately needed a top line forward who could score at even strength. Guentzel coincidentally having the best year of his career so far. I guess he wasnt a product of Sid.

 

[kovazub94]

Nah man. He's "washed", but at the same time can bring back a haul apparently.

There’s a chance that he’s washed up and potential opportunity to get a haul that helps the team. Kreider is turning into 3LW on this team - could this position filled more efficiently while simultaneously help the team address needed elsewhere? Like many of us I’d prefer moving Zibanejad but that’s close to impossible realistically (or at least compared to moving Kreider)

 

[SA16]

Those stats may have their place but they are not my bible. If you only go by those stats and not what you see on the ice then do goals scored count? How many goals does Fox have in almost half a season? Yes Mika and CK have not played well but are they now to blame for Fox not having any goals? Lindy has a goal. Mancini has a goal.

You posted several stats saying best of his career. So if you believe in those stats do you think Fox is having one of the best seasons of his career?

So immediately we go straight to the "But he hasn't scored." So you do think over the offseason suddenly he became one of the worst shooters in the league? Would you feel so much better about his game this season if he did absolutely nothing different but had 3 5v5 goals, instead of 0, because the goaltender had his glove 2 inches lower and allowed a few soft goals?

And why does it matter? Here is how many goals, per 82 games played, Fox has been on the ice for at 5v5 the last five years starting with the oldest.

1. 64
2. 65
3. 69
4. 64
5. 63

I'm seeing some extreme consistency here and I don't see why it makes any difference if he is the one scoring the goals or if he is the one setting up the goals. The fact that he has been on the ice for almost the same amount this year despite having 0 goals on 34 shots is an indicator that his process has actually been even more effective this year since in reality we should expect him to score on about 6-7% of his shots.

I'm also not really sure what you mean by "believe in those stats." There's nothing to believe in. They're just factual numbers. You can doubt the formula for expected goals if you want, but the other stats are just counting events that happened on the ice and don't have any "complex" math behind them.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Side note to all of this, the team wasn’t f***ing good enough to win a cup. They had 12 million tied up in a 4th line winger and a 3rd pairing defensemen. How the f*** did anyone think we would get better by keeping them on the roster. Right now we have 14 mil tied up in Kreider and zib, both of who have been terrible on the ice. I don’t care how long they’ve been here they aren’t going to help us win.

Between those 4 players that’s 26 mil against the cap. We could have 2 mcdavids for that f***ing price. I can’t believe anyone is siding with the players being whiny assholes about moving the dead weight

 

[Boris Zubov]

After the Trouba trade, on the National Broadcast game Anson Carter said, he understood the family situation and was sympathetic to it, but also finished by saying that was the reason he waited to have a family until after he retired.

Many people including myself have sacrificed in way more difficult circumstances than Mr & Mrs 1% will ever have to in their cross country arrangement. I have zero empathy. He's a pro athlete, but for some reason he thinks he's above it all. He wanted special treatment in Winnipeg & he wanted even more of it when he got here. Good riddance.

 

[UnSandvich]

Those stats may have their place but they are not my bible. If you only go by those stats and not what you see on the ice then do goals scored count? How many goals does Fox have in almost half a season? Yes Mika and CK have not played well but are they now to blame for Fox not having any goals? Lindy has a goal. Mancini has a goal.

You posted several stats saying best of his career. So if you believe in those stats do you think Fox is having one of the best seasons of his career?

Seeing something on the ice =/= understanding or having any ability to analyze what you see. A 4 year old and Wayne Gretzky see the same ice. The difference is Wayne Gretzky understands things the 4 year old doesn't. And things a lot of posters on here don't either, by the look of it.