Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[Profet]

Going to be a lot of grumpy posters here when they find out we aren't giving away our draft pick this season.

Drury is not going full rebuild. All he's doing is shipping out some garbage.

 

[Machinehead]

Going to be a lot of grumpy posters here when they find out we aren't giving away our draft pick this season.

Drury is not going full rebuild. All he's doing is shipping out some garbage.

Again, we're all really looking forward to Drury's grand plan.

1) Take 76 goals out of the lineup
2) Do nothing?
3) Win the Cup I guess

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Again, we're all really looking forward to Drury's grand plan.

1) Take 76 goals out of the lineup
2) Do nothing?
3) Win the Cup I guess

Replace Kreider and Mika with 2 other players who help the locker room, and make players around them play better.

Who are those players, I don't know. That's for Drury to figure out. Maybe we get Kakko and Buch.

 

[TheTakedown]

I’m actually more bullish on Drury as a GM than most, I think he’s made enough moves that show he’s a good enough talent evaluator (on the whole) and has shown he will move on from guys who shouldn’t be part of the solution here and is eager to make moves.

However and it’s a big however, I think he’s clearly demonstrated he is atrocious at the communicating and relationships side of this with his players and from reporting it seems like he’s somewhat a paranoid type. The organization could probably benefit from a President to come in and handle the areas Drury has shortcomings in instead of him being both President and GM.

I mostly agree with this. Drury, to his credit, has *identified* that there are issues with this team. I believe the switch of mindset happened slightly too late (Lindgren should never have been extended, Trouba should have been informed he could either waive or be scratched in the off-season), but at least it was identified.

Gorton built this roster to score timely goals on the back of elite Goaltending, which is the same mindset he had with Boston (Tim Thomas) and Alain Vigneault's iteration of NYR (Lundqvist)...

Drury let this "work" as long as it was viable late last year and early this year it was *clear* that this team was going to hit a wall and needed changes. He gave this team 20 games to turn it around after his captain threw a fit and the team responded with the most drudging performance I've ever seen

 

[Filip Chytil]

Am I blind or did the roster building thread get moved somewhere? I don't see it under "Normal Threads." I went into my web history to get the link to get back to it.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Again, we're all really looking forward to Drury's grand plan.

1) Take 76 goals out of the lineup
2) Do nothing?
3) Win the Cup I guess

but at least the vibes will be better! And we know teams that win the cup get by on vibes

 

[DanielBrassard]

Replace Kreider and Mika with 2 other players who help the locker room, and make players around them play better.

Who are those players, I don't know. That's for Drury to figure out. Maybe we get Kakko and Buch.

Great plan, now keep in mind that if you want to be a Stanley cup contender it would behoove the Rangers to replace Kreider with someone as good as he was a couple of years ago, same with Zibanejad. And also the defense is still atrocious. Plus you also want to ship out Panarin so you have to account for that as well.

 

[duhmetreE]

The gear holding the Capitals together will turn 40 this year.

They're still in horrible shape long-term.

They have some nice little players, but the only guy in their organization that anybody is planning for is about to be on Social Security.

They better hope Leonard really hits.

I get what you're saying but it's not who I would model after.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him play well into his 40s. That guy is a freak

 

[Machinehead]

Forget Messier, pretend he's not in the picture. What about the points he's making is incorrect?

It's not what he's saying, it's what he's not saying.

This team has a talent problem. The roster is bad. It's horribly constructed and has holes that NHL teams can't have.

Maybe there's also a culture problem. Nobody is saying those things are mutually exclusive and nobody is saying don't solve that.

The problem is, the guys seen as a culture problem (Panarin, Mika, Kreider, sometimes Fox, not from everyone) are like 90% of this team's offensive talent.

Absolutely nothing has been proposed, from Messier or the posters siding with him, on replacing that talent.

It's just "fix the compete level and the team would be good." They won't be.

Again, maybe that issue exists but this team misses the playoffs if they work their asses off. They're not a good hockey team.

As much as we pine over Dubinsky and Callahan breaking limbs to win a game 2-1, let's be honest, those were also dark times. And the best versions of those teams were after those guys when they got more skilled.

Messier has no interest in skill. He had no interest in skill when he lobbied to trade half of the '94 team.

Again, maybe the culture is an issue, but this board is obsessed with culture to the point of really not caring about roster construction. And this board can think what they want but when Mark Messier, who actually is a guy who might actually get a job, posts something like that, this is the response.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Great plan, now keep in mind that if you want to be a Stanley cup contender it would behoove the Rangers to replace Kreider with someone as good as he was a couple of years ago, same with Zibanejad. And also the defense is still atrocious. Plus you also want to ship out Panarin so you have to account for that as well.

Dont need to account for their point production point for point. Losing them will make the team better and will make other players play better. I'm really not too concerned about losing those 2, nobody should if they watched them this season.

Panarin can go if we are getting back a legit future 1st liner, which he should be able to bring back if he is traded this offseason. But for the record I don't think he's traded, more likely next trade deadline.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

It's not what he's saying, it's what he's not saying.

This team has a talent problem. The roster is bad. It's horribly constructed and has holes that NHL teams can't have.

Maybe there's also a culture problem. Nobody is saying those things are mutually exclusive and nobody is saying don't solve that.

The problem is, the guys seen as a culture problem (Panarin, Mika, Kreider, sometimes Fox, not from everyone) are like 90% of this team's offensive talent.

Absolutely nothing has been proposed, from Messier or the posters siding with him, on replacing that talent.

It's just "fix the compete level and the team would be good." They won't be.

Again, maybe that issue exists but this team misses the playoffs if they work their asses off. They're not a good hockey team.

As much as we pine over Dubinsky and Callahan breaking limbs to win a game 2-1, let's be honest, those were also dark times. And the best versions of those teams were after those guys when they got more skilled.

Messier has no interest in skill. He had no interest in skill when he lobbied to trade half of the '94 team.

Again, maybe the culture is an issue, but this board is obsessed with culture to the point of really not caring about roster construction. And this board can think what they want but when Mark Messier, who actually is a guy who might actually get a job, posts something like that, this is the response.

The way you construct the roster is what gives them their culture. You construct a roster of country club boys, then guess what, you have a country club culture.

 

[Siddi]

For the sake of the team I would love to make this argument but Z's slip over the last two seasons (so pretty large sample size) makes it a difficult assertion to stand by.

Oh I dont think anybody would claim his past 2 seasons to be on par with a top 10 center. I just hope for the sake of the team that he will get back to that kind of level next season.

 

[kovazub94]

Picking 10th-12thOA this year, and handing Pittsburgh next year's pick, turns my stomach.

I know we're going to do it, but the risk/reward feels completely out of whack.

While if I had to make a bet I'd bet on the Rangers getting back to playoffs next year, in terms of managing the risk I'd also rather give up this year's pick, rather than deal with uncertainty. But if the Rangers (I mean Shesterkin) steal at least one game - it could be the case.

 

[kovazub94]

Actually, not at all.

I think most people think this sucks.

You're heavily discounting Shesterkin and Fox. Also rightly not including Panarin (and Zibanejad) as part of the core because of their age - doesn't mean that they are not on the team (if the Drury doesn't do anything at least for one, maybe more years)

 

[mrmovies779]

This team didn't make the trade for Miller with their eyes set on a rebuild next year.Expect another half-ass retool on the fly to fight for a Wildcard next year.Sad but true

 

[17futurecap]

With a full no move, what is Bread’s list even going to be, Tampa, Florida, Islanders, Washington and the Devils?

Prepare to be disappointed with the return if you want to trade him with only having a year left on his contract and his high cap hit.

This isn’t a Trouba or Goodrow situation where getting nothing in return just to get them off the team helps your cap, he’s still a great player.

 

[Graves94]

The Rangers need a better team structure defensively if they wish to win anything, short or long term. You can have all the talent in the world, but without structure, you have this years Rangers team. Not saying the Rangers have the most talent in the league, but if you play as disjointed as this years team, you're screwed!
The team has one of the best goalies in the league, but the defense in front of him is terrible, which is compounded by the lack of defensive support from the forwards.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Great plan, now keep in mind that if you want to be a Stanley cup contender it would behoove the Rangers to replace Kreider with someone as good as he was a couple of years ago, same with Zibanejad. And also the defense is still atrocious. Plus you also want to ship out Panarin so you have to account for that as well.

It’s called rebuilding . It’s our only hope.

 

[UnparalledPark]

I'll also say that I think the Caps show you can turn things around pretty quick with some good signings and just generally having SOME talent in the pipeline that's brought along well, along with a decent f***in' head coach

I really dont' think Protas and McMichael were looked at as these high end prospects, but they're playing large roles now. Caps wen tout and got some good players in Strome and Chychrun and took a gamble on PLD, but generally they just...put a solid team together without fretting about whether they had a top draft pick or tanked for years and years or whatever.

The Rangers could do that but it requires pulling their heads out of the asses and actually getting skilled players and putting them in positions to succeed and killing this team culture that's made them uncoachable for years now

I think the Caps are playing over their heads this season but they also look like they could comfortably be a playoff team going forward as well

I don’t disagree with anything you say really, but I bet after Ovi leaves, PLD reverts back to lazy PLD and Chychrun to LITR man.

 

[effen]

I will repeat: they are 12th in goals with a bottom 6 PP.

They are 7th in 5v5 goals despite getting their faces caved in 2, 3, 4 times more than they ever do to the opponent.

They do something right and it's not all Artemi Panarin and Adam Fox.

They make the playoffs if they didn't throw a fit and punt 20 games in the middle of the year. If they played to their CURRENT level of suck in that stretch they're in the playoffs.

 

[LokiDog]

I agree OV is kinda stirring the drink for them but I think the dropoff is to a mid playoff team unless they completely crater

The Rangers already have some better pieces than the Caps. They could turn themselves into a good team with some smart moves. But like...They should dumped Lindgren and traded for Chychrun last year or something

They haven't shown they are interested in making smart moves, just ones for "big skates OK grit"

The thing with Washington is that the team culture is rock solid. Have you guys seen all the videos from the tunnel before every game this year? That whole team is so bought in and on the same page and that is WHEN groups play over their heads. Which they absolutely have. I would bet my right foot they fizzle out pretty bad in the playoffs. But that’s a locker room that is rock solid, that could absorb a guy like PLD and get him on track without missing a beat. They’re a stronger roster than us going forward for sure with underrated pieces - behind Carlson/Chychrun is Roy, Fehervary and Sandin with a decent tandem in net. Protas went stupid this year. The Dubois gamble paid off to the tune of 65 points, over 60 blocks and 50% on over 1100 face offs. But they’re definitely a middling playoff team with no elite talent coming up and nothing really special on the roster. It’s the culture and the buy in of basically playing alongside an icon.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

but at least the vibes will be better! And we know teams that win the cup get by on vibes

I find it mind-blowing, people can make comments like this after watching this team all season. We blew shit because of those vibes.

 

[effen]

The thing with Washington is that the team culture is rock solid. Have you guys seen all the videos from the tunnel before every game this year? That whole team is so bought in and on the same page and that is WHEN groups play over their heads. Which they absolutely have. I would bet my right foot they fizzle out pretty bad in the playoffs. But that’s a locker room that is rock solid, that could absorb a guy like PLD and get him on track without missing a beat. They’re a stronger roster than us going forward for sure with underrated pieces - behind Carlson/Chychrun is Roy, Fehervary and Sandin with a devent tandem in net. Protas went stupid this year. The Dubois gamble paid off to the tune of 65 points, over 60 blocks and 50% on over 1100 face offs. But they’re definitely a middling playoff team with no elite talent coming up and nothing really special on the roster. It’s the culture and the buy in of basically playing alongside an icon.

They anticipate and act on that assumption. The Rangers sit back, read and react, and play like they met each other 5 minutes ago as they play zone offense or back up to the dots.

It's much, much more a coaching and player buy in issue than a talent issue. If they Caps played like the Rangers, they would look like the Rangers and vice versa. It's not Connor McMichael and Martin Ferahvary.

 

[effen]

I find it mind-blowing, people can make comments like this after watching this team all season. We blew shit because of those vibes.

There is some top-tier level gaslighting going on that to me circles back to don't touch my sacred cows and blame the bottom 20% of the roster. Same as always.

 

[Machinehead]

You're heavily discounting Shesterkin and Fox. Also rightly not including Panarin (and Zibanejad) as part of the core because of their age - doesn't mean that they are not on the team (if the Drury doesn't do anything at least for one, maybe more years)

This is not who I chose as the core, this is who the team thinks is the core according to Brooks.

I'm not discounting anybody -- every team in the league has stars. If you think that group of six players is good, relative to what other teams can ice, you need to watch some more teams.