Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[Levitate]

I'll also say that I think the Caps show you can turn things around pretty quick with some good signings and just generally having SOME talent in the pipeline that's brought along well, along with a decent f***in' head coach

I really dont' think Protas and McMichael were looked at as these high end prospects, but they're playing large roles now. Caps wen tout and got some good players in Strome and Chychrun and took a gamble on PLD, but generally they just...put a solid team together without fretting about whether they had a top draft pick or tanked for years and years or whatever.

The Rangers could do that but it requires pulling their heads out of the asses and actually getting skilled players and putting them in positions to succeed and killing this team culture that's made them uncoachable for years now

I think the Caps are playing over their heads this season but they also look like they could comfortably be a playoff team going forward as well

 

[McRanger92]

IF NYR bomb out again next season, Panarin should go at the deadline. At the very least, that's how I think they should play it.

I think this is a playoff team next year though, if only a bubble group, so it may be moot

The Rangers dont need Artemi Panarin to be a playoff team next year. I think Drury really needs to go to him and try to work out a trade this summer.

 

[Machinehead]

IF NYR bomb out again next season, Panarin should go at the deadline. At the very least, that's how I think they should play it.

I think this is a playoff team next year though, if only a bubble group, so it may be moot

It's tough because the East is absolute dogwater. I've never seen an NHL conference in this rough a shape.

I think the Rangers are both terrible and could also make the playoffs next year.

 

[Machinehead]

I'll also say that I think the Caps show you can turn things around pretty quick with some good signings and just generally having SOME talent in the pipeline that's brought along well, along with a decent f***in' head coach

I really dont' think Protas and McMichael were looked at as these high end prospects, but they're playing large roles now. Caps wen tout and got some good players in Strome and Chychrun and took a gamble on PLD, but generally they just...put a solid team together without fretting about whether they had a top draft pick or tanked for years and years or whatever.

The Rangers could do that but it requires pulling their heads out of the asses and actually getting skilled players and putting them in positions to succeed and killing this team culture that's made them uncoachable for years now

I think the Caps are playing over their heads this season but they also look like they could comfortably be a playoff team going forward as well

The gear holding the Capitals together will turn 40 this year.

They're still in horrible shape long-term.

They have some nice little players, but the only guy in their organization that anybody is planning for is about to be on Social Security.

They better hope Leonard really hits.

I get what you're saying but it's not who I would model after.

 

[McRanger92]

Maybe rebuilding to that extent is not realistic, but not adding another huge contract attached to an aging player should have been pretty realistic.

JT was here a decade ago, and he's not that much different from what he was. He's a good player. He also has a lot of holes.

We added another Rongo to replace the ones we're hopefully getting rid of.

I wasnt happy with the way JT played after the first 15-20 games he was here. But everyone and their mother was checked out by that time. He even got bumped off PP1 before any of the other clowns. He's here and he plays a position of need. There are intangibles he has played with in his career that we have lacked forever. We should never have traded him and others. The trade also fell into Drury's lap because it was a steal at that price. I also dont want JT to be a referendum on the entire organization. Our young players need to start stepping into that leadership void because it was blatantly an issue this year, regardless of whether the team was talented enough or not.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I would be willing to put money on the Rangers not being a playoff team if Panarin gets traded this summer.

Like it’s not even a discussion for me

 

[Levitate]

The gear holding the Capitals together will turn 40 this year.

They're still in horrible shape long-term.

They have some nice little players, but the only guy in their organization that anybody is planning for is about to be on Social Security.

They better hope Leonard really hits.

I get what you're saying but it's not who I would model after.

I agree OV is kinda stirring the drink for them but I think the dropoff is to a mid playoff team unless they completely crater

The Rangers already have some better pieces than the Caps. They could turn themselves into a good team with some smart moves. But like...They should dumped Lindgren and traded for Chychrun last year or something

They haven't shown they are interested in making smart moves, just ones for "big skates OK grit"

 

[McRanger92]

I would be willing to put money on the Rangers not being a playoff team if Panarin gets traded this summer.

Like it’s not even a discussion for me

We werent a playoff team with him so why not move him as an impending UFA for some young assets before he walks for nothing? Are we going to extend him at 35? Its a no brainer to trade him. Ill also take that bet if we do move him.

 

[Levitate]

We werent a playoff team with him so why not move him as an impending UFA for some young assets before he walks for nothing? Are we going to extend him at 35? Its a no brainer to trade him. Ill also take that bet if we do move him.

If they move him for a really good prospect/young player or two that's great.

Even if it still makes sense I kinda don't want to see him traded for a late first and some bottom six prospect so we can continue the merry go round of shitty picks and shitty prospects

But the only teams that are gonna want him are contenders that might be tapped out on whether they have any really good prospects or youngplayers they're willing to move. Shit could be like the McDonagh trade

 

[zlev]

i agree, trade Panarin to ensure we have a lottery pick next year, no argument from me there

 

[McRanger92]

If they move him for a really good prospect/young player or two that's great.

Even if it still makes sense I kinda don't want to see him traded for a late first and some bottom six prospect so we can continue the merry go round of shitty picks and shitty prospects

But the only teams that are gonna want him are contenders that might be tapped out on whether they have any really good prospects or youngplayers they're willing to move. Shit could be like the McDonagh trade

McD was 28 and had multiple years left when we traded him. Different situation. The full rebuild crowd and the change the core crowd should be aligned on trading Panarin. It doesnt really make sense to keep him.

 

[Kocur Dill]

I'll also say that I think the Caps show you can turn things around pretty quick with some good signings and just generally having SOME talent in the pipeline that's brought along well, along with a decent f***in' head coach

I really dont' think Protas and McMichael were looked at as these high end prospects, but they're playing large roles now. Caps wen tout and got some good players in Strome and Chychrun and took a gamble on PLD, but generally they just...put a solid team together without fretting about whether they had a top draft pick or tanked for years and years or whatever.

The Rangers could do that but it requires pulling their heads out of the asses and actually getting skilled players and putting them in positions to succeed and killing this team culture that's made them uncoachable for years now

I think the Caps are playing over their heads this season but they also look like they could comfortably be a playoff team going forward as well

Ov and Wilson as the leaders of your room makes a monumental difference compared to NYRs roster.

 

[Machinehead]

I agree OV is kinda stirring the drink for them but I think the dropoff is to a mid playoff team unless they completely crater

The Rangers already have some better pieces than the Caps. They could turn themselves into a good team with some smart moves. But like...They should dumped Lindgren and traded for Chychrun last year or something

They haven't shown they are interested in making smart moves, just ones for "big skates OK grit"

I think the models for doing it without high picks, if you believe Dolan will torpedo that, are Minnesota and Dallas. I know Minnesota kind of sucks right now but they lost a player to injury that they couldn't afford to lose -- sometimes, what can you do?

I do think a lot of it is luck, but those two teams have shown a pattern of always finding the gem with late-ish picks, whether it's mid to late first round, or the later rounds themselves.

And I still don't know if those teams are good enough. The reality is, the best way to win in this league is to get handed Hall of Famers when they're 18 through the heart of the cards. If we can't do that, we need to be more like some of those other teams I mentioned.

And I agree, all they seem to be looking at is big and fits a certain style. Even "skates" is negotiable.

All Washington is doing is STILL picking fruit off of the Hall of Famer they were handed, but I do think the blueprint is there.

 

[Machinehead]

McD was 28 and had multiple years left when we traded him. Different situation. The full rebuild crowd and the change the core crowd should be aligned on trading Panarin. It doesnt really make sense to keep him.

I don't necessarily think that they're not, I think the point some people are making is that the team is bad once they get rid of Panarin and some of the moves they made at the deadline don't make a ton of sense for a team taking a step back.

I know you don't want to believe this, but this team is scoring like a hundred goals next year if Panarin's not on the team. And I'm fine with that.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't necessarily think that they're not, I think the point some people are making is that the team is bad once they get rid of Panarin and some of the moves they made at the deadline don't make a ton of sense for a team taking a step back.

I know you don't want to believe this, but this team is scoring like a hundred goals next year if Panarin's not on the team. And I'm fine with that.

I care far more about the amount of goals we allow next year. I also have my doubts about how much a difference maker Panarin is at this point is his career considering we were close to last in the league on the powerplay.

 

[Filip Chytil]

Braden Schneider who is stuck on their 3rd pairing for the next 5 years behind will Borgen is in the core, but he wasn’t good enough to jump ahead of Borgen on the depth chart. I’d love to hear the Drury apologists make sense of that one, I really would.

Will f***in Borgen btw.

Maybe they're gonna deal Schneider and keep K'Andre

Why couldn't Kakko have been dealt for a LHD? It's not a very good comparison, but I'm immediately brought back to signing Trocheck to be 2C instead of moving Chytil up. Obviously, that worked out, but that isn't the point. Maybe that was more of an indication of their internal view of Chytil at the time.

And maybe this is an indication of their internal view of Schneider. Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

We werent a playoff team with him so why not move him as an impending UFA for some young assets before he walks for nothing? Are we going to extend him at 35? Its a no brainer to trade him. Ill also take that bet if we do move him.

Because you’re taking your top point producer off the team and not replacing him.

Drury had no incentive to move Panarin because he needs to make the playoffs or his ass will be on the line.

And If he wants a reasonable deal to stay, yeah I’d re-sign him all day long

 

[Machinehead]

I care far more about the amount of goals we allow next year. I also have my doubts about how much a difference maker Panarin is at this point is his career considering we were close to last in the league on the powerplay.

There's no question he's declined quite a bit but we still do absolutely nothing offensively unless he starts it.

I don't disagree at all that defending better and setting an overall standard should be the focus next year, but this team won't be very good.

I'm leaning towards bouncing the pick this year and keeping it next year, but it's hard to gauge where they finish because like I said, the East is a proportion of ass right now that human numbers have no way of describing.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I don't necessarily think that they're not, I think the point some people are making is that the team is bad once they get rid of Panarin and some of the moves they made at the deadline don't make a ton of sense for a team taking a step back.

I know you don't want to believe this, but this team is scoring like a hundred goals next year if Panarin's not on the team. And I'm fine with that.

Right. if the goal is too flame out for a top 5 pick, I’m on board to move Panarin.

That sentiment isn’t aligned with the moves our moron GM has been making

 

[Machinehead]

Right. if the goal is too flame out for a top 5 pick, I’m on board to move Panarin.

That sentiment isn’t aligned with the moves our moron GM has been making

Right and people always respond with "we don't wanna rebuild for 10 years something about Buffalo!!!" which is fearmongering, but also I get it. Nobody wants to be bad for a decade. Nobody is suggesting that.

But like, for a year or two, yeah, I think it's pretty clear this team not contending in 25-26. You shouldn't half-ass that. You should be getting as a many assets as possible. We already burnt one on a guy who will be 35 YEARS OLD if we're good by 2027!

 

[kovazub94]

Drury should avoid giving Panarin a contract extension. While Brooks referred to him as part of the core at the end of the discussion, the Rangers need to move on. You can’t criticize the core group and then turn around and keep Panarin, Miller, and Trocheck, and still expect different results—or claim you're empowering the young players. Keeping all three clogs up the top six and leaves little room for meaningful change.

It's the same shit all over again. Those three players are in their 30's.

I'm posting below a link to youtube interview with Panarin (it's in Russian). Around 13min -14min he talks about the rest of his career. The gist is that first, he acknowledged that at some point he wanted to finish his career in the KHL and be able to raise his kids there. He also said that doesn't want to wait too long to become a "plug" depth player in the NHL and instead he'd rather be in primary (leadership) roles in the KHL. This makes me think that:

1. Panarin probably wouldn't seek to change his US location at this point
2. He probably wouldn't either like a shorter contract after next year, or if things don't pan out - he wouldn't mind calling it quits here by terminating his contract in the NHL in order to go play in Russia

 

[Levitate]

Panarin still has 89 points this year. If the power play was half decent he'd probably have broken 100 again. He's still an elite player and difference maker. It's just that you can't have almost literally everyone else on the team doing jack shit and expect that difference to be more than "keeps the team from being last in the league"

and yeah, it makes sense to trade him, I just think if they do the return is going to be underwhelming for a lot of people and we'll get another round of "Drury's bad at his job!" when in this case at least it's because the pickings would be slim in terms of teams he might go to and you never get real value in those situations

 

[Fitzy]

There are certain things that the eye test can show, and one of the most obvious is that Trocheck is not "part of the problem" with this core any more than Will Cuylle is.

What they do with him is a fair question. Two-Three years from now if we're burning it down he will make a great trade chip with only 1-2 years left. But there's no culture issue with Vinny.

 

[Filip Chytil]

If the move is to tear it down, you probably hand this year's pick over, trade the entire veteran core this summer, and likely finish next year as a bottom 5 team. Handing next year's unprotected pick over to a division rival wouldn't make a lot of sense if the plan is to nuke the roster this summer.

But they're not tearing it down. They just traded for a 32 year old center. Unless he's literally winging this with zero vision or plan, trading for a 32 yr old C would seem to indicate that he's not doing a rebuild.

I'd be floored if Panarin is dealt this summer. The only way I see that happening is if they trade him to sign Marner. Again, not what I'd do, but it doesn't matter what I'd do. They're so shallow at center and Trocheck is emerging as a leader that I can't imagine him being dealt. They'll shed Kreider for sure. Mika maybe if he waives the NMC. He has 29 pts in 30 games since Feb 1. Maybe he's upped his value, but he'll still be 32 in four days and signed thru 2029-2030.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Going to be a lot of grumpy posters here when they find out we aren't giving away our draft pick this season.

Drury is not going full rebuild. All he's doing is shipping out some garbage.