Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[Machinehead]

NYR think there core is JT Miller, Trocheck, Cuylle, Fox, Schneider and Igor?

And people are encouraged by Drury's talent evaluation?

All the JTM simps are gonna get their dream team and we're gonna get the rebuild we probably need.

Everyone wins.

 

[tiggles]

All the JTM simps are gonna get their dream team and we're gonna get the rebuild we probably need.

Everyone wins.

Going to be tough to get that rebuild without any good draft picks.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Soucy plays becuase JT Miller wanted him on the Rangers. Another pie to the face on those who claimed JT was this messiah who would fix the locker room issues. He is just another mopey player who needs his comfort blanky.

You mean Country Club Drury obtaining Country Club J.T, who actually DID quit on his club for a month because he couldn’t get along with the other kids? Then Country Club J.T got Country Club Drury to invite Saucy to the Country Club so he could socialize with himself and best buddy fellow Country Clubber Trochek. Fortunately, there were Country Club memberships available because Country Clubber Lindgren, who was Country Clubber Fox’s best buddy, Tarasanko, who was Country Clubber Panarin’s best buddy and Wheeler and Copp who were former overpaid Country Clubber Trouba’s best buddies, and then Country Clubber Trouba himself were expelled from the Country Club, much to the chagrin of some of members and non members of the Country Club.

Let’s see. Who haven’t we mentioned that got their buddies to join the Country Club? Mika for one. In fact, there isn’t even another Swede on the team if memory serves correctly. Then there is Kreider. I am not aware of any of his buddies joining the Country Club. If these two don’t even have enough influence to get their buddies into the Country Club, how can they get the coach to do their will? I can only assume these two are non members, but I’m sure that won’t stop some of the Country Club HF Board members from miscasting them as such in the future.

Sorry guys, I was getting sick of reading about Country Club for so long, than I decided if you can’t beat them, join them.

 

[Machinehead]

Going to be tough to get that rebuild without any good draft picks.

Facepunch HC minus Panarin isn't gonna be very good!

 

[Mike in Houston]

You mean Country Club Drury obtaining Country Club J.T, who actually DID quit on his club for a month because he couldn’t get along with the other kids? Then Country Club J.T got Country Club Drury to invite Saucy to the Country Club so he could socialize with himself and best buddy fellow Country Clubber Trochek. Fortunately, there were Country Club memberships available because Country Clubber Lindgren, who was Country Clubber Fox’s best buddy, Tarasanko, who was Country Clubber Panarin’s best buddy and Wheeler and Copp who were former overpaid Country Clubber Trouba’s best buddies, and then Country Clubber Trouba himself were expelled from the Country Club, much to the chagrin of some of members and non members of the Country Club.

Let’s see. Who haven’t we mentioned that got their buddies to join the Country Club? Mika for one. In fact, there isn’t even another Swede on the team if memory serves correctly. Then there is Kreider. I am not aware of any of his buddies joining the Country Club. If these two don’t even have enough influence to get their buddies into the Country Club, how can they get the coach to do their will? I can only assume these two are non members, but I’m sure that won’t stop some of the Country Club HF Board members from miscasting them as such in the future.

Sorry guys, I was getting sick of reading about Country Club for so long, than I decided if you can’t beat them, join them.

I can't wait until next season. I'm going to shit on everyone. Screw it!

 

[Fitzy]

Yeah, assuming that level of play is maintained, you could march forward with that as your center group, but not with middling wingers. You would need significant depth at wing also, with probably one of them being an elite player.

You get away with middling wingers when you have Crosby and Malkin, and they didn't even take off until they got Guentzel and Kessel.

We just suck, and nobody wants to rebuild, so we're trying to talk the minimum talent bar down from the uprights.

As I mentioned before, Rangers fans do this all the time because of the starvation we've been put through.

Yes if they announced we were rebuilding I'd jump with joy as I think we're operating on slim margins and slim chances here. But I'm 'coping' by trying to find the least terrible path forward knowing what we know about management's plan, and the only way I know how to build a good team if it's star defenseman and star center aren't at the pinnacle of the league, is to have bloody good depth. (Reminding myself of Michael Caine from the Prestige- it's the only way NYR how to do it in this era where we don't have a Crosby to build around. If we aren;t going to have the best players on the ice each game, you need your 2nd and 3rd lines to outmatch the opposition to balance it)

We're rapidly approaching the point of aging where a lot of our elite talent stands out from the crowd no more than it did in 2012-2015. Panarin is no longer a top 5 wing in the league. He's not Nash yet, but no one looks at NYR's top 3 forwards any more and makes a case for them being in the top tier.

Trick is this- there's so much depth to get. You can move Zibanejad, but where are you getting another 1C to give us the depth they need there? It's almost as likely that he recovers as NYR are somehow able to find a treasure randomly. Because Miller-Trocheck can work OK as a 1-2 but that's not seperating NYR from the pack. Top line centers are never available in UFA. I'd almost move Kreider and just keep Zibanejad on the prayer that with great matchups as a 3C over a whole season, playing with Berard and Othmann, that he's able to put together a 3rd line to rival Pouliot-Brassard-Nash.

NYR got 'gifts' in Kevin Hayes and Zuccarello as guys we idn't draft but through a combination of good scouting and luck were able to bring in. I know there are fewer unplucked gems in Europe now with scouting how it is, but they need to expand the "Reach" pipeline beyond bringing in guys like Kaliyev.

Where are NYR getting two solid 2nd pairing defensemen? We lucked out pulling Stralman off the heap and traded our firstborn son to the Devil for Yandle.

Vince noted that NYR don't have a lot of draft capital to move, and we are gonna need a lot of our young talent (Perreault, Othmann, Berard) to be here and contributing for cheap to allow us the depth we need.

We talked last season about how NYR built a 80 foot ladder for a 100 foot building. The ladder shrunk 10 feet last year due to aging, and we bought a 5 foot extension in JT Miller. They're gonna have to get SUPER creative now to try to fix things.

As far as an Elite winger, I'm still praying we find a way to package Lafreniere to bring Tkachuk here. Talk to Buffalo about Owen Power. But even getting us into the conversation will require probably 2-3 more 1st round picks traded, OR a couple lucky hits on the UDFA market, combined with a psychological recovery in the room.

I think it was Publius who said "It is a bad plan that cannot be altered," well the 2017 rebuild was a bad plan then.

 

[Homelander]

Brooks said JT Miller, Trocheck, Cuylle, Fox, Schneider and Igor are the Rangers core. The Rangers need to get away from the recyclable head coaches and they need a head coach to empower the younger players to help support the Rangers core group. Easier said than done. Larry mentioned someone like David Carle but Carle is in no rush to leave Denver.

Carle has three toddlers under the age of 5. EF said Carle is not going to a situation where he can't win.

EF and Kyle mentioned the de Haan stuff on the pod this morning.



Drury has terrible communication skills.

Todd Nelson.

That's a pretty shitty core. And Laf is part of the core, whether we like it or not. And Drury should be fired.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Ironically the teams best chance to swindle some team out of a core piece in an area of need is by trading Trocheck

But I guarantee Drury wouldn’t even consider it

 

[Homelander]

Drury should avoid giving Panarin a contract extension. While Brooks referred to him as part of the core at the end of the discussion, the Rangers need to move on. You can’t criticize the core group and then turn around and keep Panarin, Miller, and Trocheck, and still expect different results—or claim you're empowering the young players. Keeping all three clogs up the top six and leaves little room for meaningful change.

It's the same shit all over again. Those three players are in their 30's.

Who's the next most talented offensive player? Laf? Perreault?

They need some skill. I understand that Drury wants a gritty, hard-to-play-against team (then again, who gives a shit what Drury wants?), but we also need to score and set up goals and no one on this team does that better than Panarin.

 

[rangers1314]

Mollie was good until this year. She doesn't get special treatment, sorry. If she's gonna write good articles like she did the last few years, wonderful. She hasn't.

This is to encourage engagement on the socials and here because otherwise the biggest stories from now until Thursday are what Sam will say, which AHL guys get called up, and who will be sitting for injuries.

I've also said Vince stinks this year too. Total opportunist with his hit pieces when he's not on his rotating parental leave.

Colin has been the best beat writer. The other Twitter guys like Dave and Lazarus offer the best coverage.

I miss Andrew Gross covering the team. And Carp.

I mean you can think whatever you’d like about Mollie, and maybe it’s all valid. I just through him getting pissy about saying something TO A REPORTER and getting bent that she reported it was weak.

And you don’t miss Rick Carpenello. No one does. He stunk and seemed to hate this job.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

And you don’t miss Rick Carpenello. No one does. He stunk and seemed to hate this job.

no idea why anyone would miss that old miserable man.

Even so, he’s doing the same miserable schtick these days on Twitter. Only difference is, he’s not being paid to be miserable!

 

[IDvsEGO]

I mean you can think whatever you’d like about Mollie, and maybe it’s all valid. I just through him getting pissy about saying something TO A REPORTER and getting bent that she reported it was weak.

And you don’t miss Rick Carpenello. No one does. He stunk and seemed to hate this job.

Mollie hasn’t written anything unique in ages.
Vince at least understood modern hockey.
Carp and staple have no clue what that is.

reporters have to walk a line between writing real content and not pissing pff the org and the players. The organization can freeze a reporter out, the players can freeze a reporter out.

 

[Homelander]

How Hershey's Todd Nelson Became One of the Top Coaches in the AHL - The Hockey Writers Hershey Bears Latest News, Analysis & More

Todd Nelson is one of the best head coaches in the AHL, yet his success and vision go beyond the Hershey Bears.

thehockeywriters.com

"Nelson has a pulse on every part of the game. “I allow my players creativity but that being said, they have to play well defensively,” he mentioned about the forwards who can make a highlight play but when making a mistake, must be the first skater back on defense. It’s why the Bears are a good backchecking team as Nelson preaches, “If you want to score off the rush, that’s fine but you can’t turn over the puck, and if you turn over the puck, you better be the first one back on defense to help out.”


In other words, get the f*** out, Mika. You can't play for Coach Nelson.


But this might be too Lavioletteish:

“My goal as a coach is to make it a family atmosphere so that players want to come to the rink and make themselves better,” Nelson noted for what he does as a coach to bring that winning culture. He mentioned how he meets with the players and their families before the season starts to get to know them and build a relationship with them."

 

[McRanger92]

This whole season has been a shitshow. It's been one giant mutiny against Drury and this organization. Whether you were traded here recently or you've been here for years, the players obviously hate the culture, hate management, and don't play hard.

You can't fire 20+ players, but you can fire the asshole who put these ragtag bunch of misfits together.


f*** Chris Drury

Nothing will change with the next guy if Dolan is still here

 

[Profet]

Based on Drury's 24-25 and the smoke Brooks is blowing, it really looks like the "let's vibe our way to the Cup with punching and yelling" people are gonna get their team.

I think this is amazing actually. We're gonna accidentally get some lottery picks. Hire Messier too!

::cough::

Pittsburgh is going to get a lottery pick.

::cough::

 

[Cmox]

Yes. On the day to day.

But when there is turmoil permeating the room it is incumbent upon the general manager to go in there and address it head-on. As Brooks mentioned, Drury should have gone in there and say (paraphrasing), "If you don't want to be here let me know. We'll find a place for you to go." Or just go in to the room and let the players air out any grievances and just talk and try to sort it out. Apparently that didn't happen. It was almost like Drury just forms the roster and gives it to the coach and says, "It's all yours. My work is done."

Drury seems pretty hands-off unless it's browbeating a 19 year old prospect in front of everyone.

I for one am looking forward to the exit interviews. It’ll be the most entertainment we’ve had all season.

 

[Homelander]

Nothing will change with the next guy if Dolan is still here

Maybe. Maybe not. Dolan's biggest positive and flaw is that he cares so much about the Knicks that he's very hands-off about the Rangers. He basically lets a hockey guy like Sather or Drury hold the reins and steer the ship, while he just collects money. But the problem with that is that he has blind loyalty to these incompetent buffoons and is reluctant to make changes.

 

[Machinehead]

Yes if they announced we were rebuilding I'd jump with joy as I think we're operating on slim margins and slim chances here. But I'm 'coping' by trying to find the least terrible path forward knowing what we know about management's plan, and the only way I know how to build a good team if it's star defenseman and star center aren't at the pinnacle of the league, is to have bloody good depth. (Reminding myself of Michael Caine from the Prestige- it's the only way NYR how to do it in this era where we don't have a Crosby to build around. If we aren;t going to have the best players on the ice each game, you need your 2nd and 3rd lines to outmatch the opposition to balance it)

We're rapidly approaching the point of aging where a lot of our elite talent stands out from the crowd no more than it did in 2012-2015. Panarin is no longer a top 5 wing in the league. He's not Nash yet, but no one looks at NYR's top 3 forwards any more and makes a case for them being in the top tier.

Trick is this- there's so much depth to get. You can move Zibanejad, but where are you getting another 1C to give us the depth they need there? It's almost as likely that he recovers as NYR are somehow able to find a treasure randomly. Because Miller-Trocheck can work OK as a 1-2 but that's not seperating NYR from the pack. Top line centers are never available in UFA. I'd almost move Kreider and just keep Zibanejad on the prayer that with great matchups as a 3C over a whole season, playing with Berard and Othmann, that he's able to put together a 3rd line to rival Pouliot-Brassard-Nash.

NYR got 'gifts' in Kevin Hayes and Zuccarello as guys we idn't draft but through a combination of good scouting and luck were able to bring in. I know there are fewer unplucked gems in Europe now with scouting how it is, but they need to expand the "Reach" pipeline beyond bringing in guys like Kaliyev.

Where are NYR getting two solid 2nd pairing defensemen? We lucked out pulling Stralman off the heap and traded our firstborn son to the Devil for Yandle.

Vince noted that NYR don't have a lot of draft capital to move, and we are gonna need a lot of our young talent (Perreault, Othmann, Berard) to be here and contributing for cheap to allow us the depth we need.

We talked last season about how NYR built a 80 foot ladder for a 100 foot building. The ladder shrunk 10 feet last year due to aging, and we bought a 5 foot extension in JT Miller. They're gonna have to get SUPER creative now to try to fix things.

As far as an Elite winger, I'm still praying we find a way to package Lafreniere to bring Tkachuk here. Talk to Buffalo about Owen Power. But even getting us into the conversation will require probably 2-3 more 1st round picks traded, OR a couple lucky hits on the UDFA market, combined with a psychological recovery in the room.

I think it was Publius who said "It is a bad plan that cannot be altered," well the 2017 rebuild was a bad plan then.

I will say this. You luck out of a lot of stuff. Even the teams with the vaunted high picks took a bunch of them that didn't hit. Meanwhile, teams get Brayden Point with a 3rd rounder, and Gustav Forsling just materializes from nothing one day like the Big Bang.

A lot of it is just throwing shit at the wall, and that's good, because it's doable.

It's about making the right decisions with what you can control.

What Drury could control was evidently staring down a team that wasn't good enough anymore, looking at a cupboard that was towards the bottom of the league (because the last guy missed every pick -- I understand that) and he decided to trade a bullet in the draft for that five foot extension when it made no sense for the timeline the team is now on.

He both misidentified the problem, and dug the hole deeper, to make a move because...why? Because it was there? To sneak into the playoffs?

I pretty much turned on him when he made that trade and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. It was a pretty egregious case of a GM being incredibly short-sighted and honestly just not paying enough attention.

 

[Machinehead]

::cough::

Pittsburgh is going to get a lottery pick.

::cough::

Oh, we're gonna be bad for longer than that!

 

[McRanger92]

Maybe. Maybe not. Dolan's biggest positive and flaw is that he cares so much about the Knicks that he's very hands-off about the Rangers. He basically lets a hockey guy like Sather or Drury hold the reins and steer the ship, while he just collects money. But the problem with that is that he has blind loyalty to these incompetent buffoons and is reluctant to make changes.

Dolan is very involved in the Rangers day to day. Ive heard that straight from the horse's mouth. The idea that he isnt is wrong.

 

[Homelander]

Dolan is very involved in the Rangers day to day. Ive heard that straight from the horse's mouth. The idea that he isnt is wrong.

Who's the horse? Dolan himself?

 

[Machinehead]

Oh and while I'm on the topic, you talk about getting lucky in the draft and throwing shit against the wall -- you need to actually make the picks for that to happen.

Most of them don't hit, so by all means, I'm in favor of dealing picks for a talent that's obviously filling a hole, and can do so effectively.

He traded a 3rd round pick for Carson Soucy.

"It's only a 3rd!" It's a bullet in the chamber. Soucy is nothing. I'll take the 0.5% chance that pick is Point or Buchnevich over Soucy. I'll take the lotto ticket. You can sign ten Soucy's every offseason. He's nobody. He's not worth a 3rd. He's not worth a 7th.

Borgen, I don't care about, even though his contract is stupid, because we gave up nothing for Borgen. I didn't give a f*** about Kakko by the time he was traded. Still don't. Actually, perfect example of "you can get these guys for nothing."

And then we burned an asset -just lit it on fire- because Drury needed another bottom of the lineup defenseman.

 

[McRanger92]

Who's the horse? Dolan himself?

Neil Smith and Ron Dugauy

 

[McRanger92]

Oh and while I'm on the topic, you talk about getting lucky in the draft and throwing shit against the wall -- you need to actually make the picks for that to happen.

Most of them don't hit, so by all means, I'm in favor of dealing picks for a talent that's obviously filling a hole, and can do so effectively.

He traded a 3rd round pick for Carson Soucy.

"It's only a 3rd!" It's a bullet in the chamber. Soucy is nothing. I'll take the 0.5% chance that pick is Point or Buchnevich over Soucy. I'll take the lotto ticket. You can sign ten Soucy's every offseason. He's nobody. He's not worth a 3rd. He's not worth a 7th.

Borgen, I don't care about, even though his contract is stupid, because we gave up nothing for Borgen. I didn't give a f*** about Kakko by the time he was traded. Still don't. Actually, perfect example of "you can get these guys for nothing."

And then we burned an asset -just lit it on fire- because Drury needed another bottom of the lineup defenseman.

He kinda traded Reilly Smith for Carson Soucy. That 3rd round pick belonged to the Rangers for about an hour. He can also probably get it back if he trades Soucy again before the draft.

 

[Machinehead]

He kinda traded Reilly Smith for Carson Soucy. That 3rd round pick belonged to the Rangers for about an hour. He can also probably get it back if he trades Soucy again before the draft.

And I was very happy that he traded Smith for a 3rd. Should have stuck with it.

He won't do that. If he was gonna do that, he would have kept the pick he had.