Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[LokiDog]

So, Fox's window to be on a championship team has closed?

That’s what you got from my post?

Note: this is exactly the type of intellectually lazy crap I went off the rails about a month ago (don’t worry, this will be the only time I mention it). Snarky single sentence response that isn’t even related to what I posted and is just triggered because I mentioned one of the sacred cows by name.


Did I say anything that indicated Fox’s window to be on a championship team in NY was closed? I said that this teams window is closed, which is hardly controversial. Fox? Literally all I said was 60 points was an off year.

As for whether he can be on a championship team in NY? Since you asked, I guess that’s entirely dependent upon how quickly the team can retool and restock. He’s 27 now, 28 next and it seems unlikely we have the talent and pieces to compete before he’s 29-30 if things go well. That’s fine. Zibanejad and Miller will be 34-35 at that point, so we likely will need to have found a younger center to carry the mail on the top line, replaced the offensive production of Panarin and Kreider, solidified the defense, fixed the 2 year shelf life of coaches. There’s a lot of work to be done. If it goes passed 2-3 years to open a new window? Who the hell knows? Fox isn’t the most athletic guy - I’m not gonna sit here and hypothesize what his 31+ seasons look like. Igor will be 33-34 by then. You have to imagine one, if not both, of the NMCs are still here in 36 year old Miller/Zibs.

Not a single word of that is me saying FOX can’t be part of a contender due to his age. Is it okay to question if we can reassemble a contender before his age gets significantly higher? What’s the realistic expectation here?

 

[IDvsEGO]

If the move Panarin, it won't be because they care about losing his output.

and yet there will be output lost.
Thats the point. Unless you replace panarin with a top 10 scorer. We're gonna struggle to score goals.

 

[Savant]

and yet there will be output lost.
Thats the point. Unless you replace panarin with a top 10 scorer. We're gonna struggle to score goals.

Right - I am saying if they trade Panarin, it is because they want to tank

 

[Boris Zubov]

View attachment 1012881
That’s what you got from my post?

Note: this is exactly the type of intellectually lazy crap I went off the rails about a month ago (don’t worry, this will be the only time I mention it). Snarky single sentence response that isn’t even related to what I posted and is just triggered because I mentioned one of the sacred cows by name.


Did I say anything that indicated Fox’s window to be on a championship team in NY was closed? I said that this teams window is closed, which is hardly controversial. Fox? Literally all I said was 60 points was an off year.

As for whether he can be on a championship team in NY? Since you asked, I guess that’s entirely dependent upon how quickly the team can retool and restock. He’s 27 now, 28 next and it seems unlikely we have the talent and pieces to compete before he’s 29-30 if things go well. That’s fine. Zibanejad and Miller will be 34-35 at that point, so we likely will need to have found a younger center to carry the mail on the top line, replaced the offensive production of Panarin and Kreider, solidified the defense, fixed the 2 year shelf life of coaches. There’s a lot of work to be done. If it goes passed 2-3 years to open a new window? Who the hell knows? Fox isn’t the most athletic guy - I’m not gonna sit here and hypothesize what his 31+ seasons look like. Igor will be 33-34 by then. You have to imagine one, if not both, of the NMCs are still here in 36 year old Miller/Zibs.

Not a single word of that is me saying FOX can’t be part of a contender due to his age. Is it okay to question if we can reassemble a contender before his age gets significantly higher? What’s the realistic expectation here?

Even with all of that...had he come back & said Fox's age may not fit the team's timeline, that would've been valid...way more than that BS reply.

 

[Leonardo87]

Going to wake up one morning and find Lavi on a bench in Central Park feeding pigeons with the Pigeon lady from Home Alone 2, and Torts.

It’s the Post Rangers way. lol

 

[IDvsEGO]

and yet there will be output lost.
Thats the point. Unless you replace panarin with a top 10 scorer. We're gonna struggle to score goals.

so youre words say youre agreeing with me. yet the tone says youre trying to argue

 

[NYR Viper]

Based on what we saw and heard from last offseason, does anyone truly think that Drury was super impressed by this teams core group? He waived Goodrow, apparently ruthlessly, tried for a month to trade the teams captain and very soon in to the season, sent out a memo basically saying he was open to trading the teams longest tenured player in Kreider, likely on a longer list than what we we heard.

What part of that information, taken as a whole, make people think that it’s unlikely that Drury pushed for major changes last season but may have faced internal resistance (Dolan?) to cut down a roster that just made the ECF and was projected to be a SC favorite entering the year? If anything, I’d say it’s more likely than not that Drury would have made wholesale changes last offseason if the opportunities presented themselves and he was allowed to do so.

This season was a nightmare on so many levels. Players underperformed, the coaching staff appeared to lose the room completely, among other things. If Drury was touting the fact that this team needed changes even after their ECF appearance last year than I’m giving him more time. If that’s the case, which evidence tells me is true, then he’s pushing towards a major shuffle this offseason. That’s what we all want to see. Not every trade or move will work out but if they’re at least willing to make major moves, than I’m in. Most GM’s would not have even hinted at the idea of trading Trouba or Kreider, let’s be honest.

 

[leetch99]

The two most obvious moves to make are dumping Kreider (a bag of pucks or waivers is the best we are going to do) and trading Kandre for a young top 6 forward, preferably a center. Lafreniere and Fox need to get locked in a gym instead of doing the bagel podcast and chopt salad ads. Bring in a coach who will emphasis protecting the netfront on defense and a meritocracy for young players.

Hire Messier to replace Drury if they are gonna go that route. f*** it. Joe Sakic didnt have "experience" when he got promoted to the top chair in Colorado. people forget he was an "advisor" to the owner and knifed Roy to get full control. But Mess somehow isnt experienced despite being around the game nonstop since his playing career ended. At least he cares.

He can handle the GM stuff and they can hire cap specialists . I think he would be as good as anyone out there . The man is a leader .

 

[McRanger92]

Based on what we saw and heard from last offseason, does anyone truly think that Drury was super impressed by this teams core group? He waived Goodrow, apparently ruthlessly, tried for a month to trade the teams captain and very soon in to the season, sent out a memo basically saying he was open to trading the teams longest tenured player in Kreider, likely on a longer list than what we we heard.

What part of that information, taken as a whole, make people think that it’s unlikely that Drury pushed for major changes last season but may have faced internal resistance (Dolan?) to cut down a roster that just made the ECF and was projected to be a SC favorite entering the year? If anything, I’d say it’s more likely than not that Drury would have made wholesale changes last offseason if the opportunities presented themselves and he was allowed to do so.

This season was a nightmare on so many levels. Players underperformed, the coaching staff appeared to lose the room completely, among other things. If Drury was touting the fact that this team needed changes even after their ECF appearance last year than I’m giving him more time. If that’s the case, which evidence tells me is true, then he’s pushing towards a major shuffle this offseason. That’s what we all want to see. Not every trade or move will work out but if they’re at least willing to make major moves, than I’m in. Most GM’s would not have even hinted at the idea of trading Trouba or Kreider, let’s be honest.

There's fair criticism of Drury but theres also a fair amount of Drury Derangement Syndrome going on here from people who think they should be hired to replace him. It's on the players.

Saw a solid suggestion on twitter. Try to use Kreider in a trade with our 1st to move up into the top 10. Maybe Boston would have interest. They arent going into a rebuild with Pasta, Swayman, McAvoy, Lindholm and Zadarov all under big long term contracts. Would be an efficient way to dump Kreider and add much needed talent to the prospect pool.

 

[noncents]

I'd argue lets see what he does with some actual cap space? If he can move any of the following CK/Mika/Panarin, he'll have space to make moves. I'm also not sure he's gonna push for the playoffs next year. Bottoming out might be on his agenda for a year or two if he's "secure in his job"
The draft pick move will be telling. If he ships it out now, then we're bottoming out.

i'm not team kill drury, but the trouba dwal freed up a bunch of cap and he immediately signed igor

 

[Alluckks]

View attachment 1012881
That’s what you got from my post?

Note: this is exactly the type of intellectually lazy crap I went off the rails about a month ago (don’t worry, this will be the only time I mention it). Snarky single sentence response that isn’t even related to what I posted and is just triggered because I mentioned one of the sacred cows by name.


Did I say anything that indicated Fox’s window to be on a championship team in NY was closed? I said that this teams window is closed, which is hardly controversial. Fox? Literally all I said was 60 points was an off year.

As for whether he can be on a championship team in NY? Since you asked, I guess that’s entirely dependent upon how quickly the team can retool and restock. He’s 27 now, 28 next and it seems unlikely we have the talent and pieces to compete before he’s 29-30 if things go well. That’s fine. Zibanejad and Miller will be 34-35 at that point, so we likely will need to have found a younger center to carry the mail on the top line, replaced the offensive production of Panarin and Kreider, solidified the defense, fixed the 2 year shelf life of coaches. There’s a lot of work to be done. If it goes passed 2-3 years to open a new window? Who the hell knows? Fox isn’t the most athletic guy - I’m not gonna sit here and hypothesize what his 31+ seasons look like. Igor will be 33-34 by then. You have to imagine one, if not both, of the NMCs are still here in 36 year old Miller/Zibs.

Not a single word of that is me saying FOX can’t be part of a contender due to his age. Is it okay to question if we can reassemble a contender before his age gets significantly higher? What’s the realistic expectation here?

I think he could be a part of a championship team here and is the kind of player you build around regardless of situation. I was just establishing some parameters. If you didn’t think that was the case then the rest of the discussion points [for anyone who sees thag very basic original premise] is moot.

I think there are a list of about 10 different players or considerations to evaluate at least before I would think it is necessary to take a magnifying glass to Fox’s future here. Just my take. Many others feel strongly about theirs. But I am not the intellectually lazy crap police

 

[IDvsEGO]

The two most obvious moves to make are dumping Kreider (a bag of pucks or waivers is the best we are going to do) and trading Kandre for a young top 6 forward, preferably a center. Lafreniere and Fox need to get locked in a gym instead of doing the bagel podcast and chopt salad ads. Bring in a coach who will emphasis protecting the netfront on defense and a meritocracy for young players.

Hire Messier to replace Drury if they are gonna go that route. f*** it. Joe Sakic didnt have "experience" when he got promoted to the top chair in Colorado. people forget he was an "advisor" to the owner and knifed Roy to get full control. But Mess somehow isnt experienced despite being around the game nonstop since his playing career ended. At least he cares.

Messier said he wanted to straight from zero job experience to full control as a coach, and when offered a path to Hartford was reportedly "upset and betrayed"
Advisor and alternate governor is still a job within the organization learning something.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I don’t think they’re just going to move guys and sit on their hands.

The UFA market blows but the trade market will be popping with the rising cap. I expect the rangers to be heavily involved there.

That would require us to move big pieces or prospects.
I dont see it.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Based on what we saw and heard from last offseason, does anyone truly think that Drury was super impressed by this teams core group? He waived Goodrow, apparently ruthlessly, tried for a month to trade the teams captain and very soon in to the season, sent out a memo basically saying he was open to trading the teams longest tenured player in Kreider, likely on a longer list than what we we heard.

What part of that information, taken as a whole, make people think that it’s unlikely that Drury pushed for major changes last season but may have faced internal resistance (Dolan?) to cut down a roster that just made the ECF and was projected to be a SC favorite entering the year? If anything, I’d say it’s more likely than not that Drury would have made wholesale changes last offseason if the opportunities presented themselves and he was allowed to do so.

The only guy who has the ability to be traded amongst the core forwards with ease is Kreider. People have been complaining and wanting to trade Mika and Panarin all year but both hold all the cards on whether they are moved.

And we saw how well Drury worked last year with trades when he has to deal with contract clauses

If people don’t see a reality where they move Kreider and maybe a defenseman and fill in around the edges, I’m not sure what to say

 

[Alluckks]

That would require us to move big pieces or prospects.
I dont see it.

I think almost everything is on the table for Drury to bring in a few guys he likes, whether or not that is a good idea

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Messier said he wanted to straight from zero job experience to full control as a coach, and when offered a path to Hartford was reportedly "upset and betrayed"
Advisor and alternate governor is still a job within the organization learning something.

Exactly, f*** this guy. People have been complaining for months here about the entitlement of the players. And yet the same people want to turn around and hand this entitled motherf***er a job

 

[Alluckks]

Exactly, f*** this guy. People have been complaining for months here about the entitlement of the players. And yet the same people want to turn around and hand this entitled motherf***er a job

Funnily enough, this would be the perfect time to give Messier a quick swim or die scenario as a coach, and then we at least would never have to hear about him coaching again

 

[leetch99]

If the move Panarin, it won't be because they care about losing his output.

Rangers have a mess up front in wingers . I think Laf definitely needs to be moved back to his natural side . Kreider GONE ! Move Panarin....you still have Laf-Perreault-Cuylle-Othmann-Edstrom .

I stick Edstrom at 3C . Othmann on line 4 either wing as Rempe is not suitable for 80 games and if he shows more...make the changes to move him , Othmann up somehow . Tro-Mika-Carrick at C . Who plays RW after Miller.....I have no idea how they work that . Maybe move Perreault over and Berard and Rempe .

Any trades need to bring back a puck carrier to help Fox out .....I'm not sure Drury can handle this stuff . Give Pens the 25 pick...DO NOT TEMPT FATE...it's the Pens and the Rangers and we know how that will go !!!

 

[inranger94]

I want Mess back in some capacity. I feel he can help to turn things around regarding the team culture. However he has a big ego and does not seem to listen to other people feedback. I think if he ever wants a job in the NHL he needs to learn how to be more tactful.

 

[Savant]

Rangers have a mess up front in wingers . I think Laf definitely needs to be moved back to his natural side . Kreider GONE ! Move Panarin....you still have Laf-Perreault-Cuylle-Othmann-Edstrom .

I stick Edstrom at 3C . Othmann on line 4 either wing as Rempe is not suitable for 80 games and if he shows more...make the changes to move him , Othmann up somehow . Tro-Mika-Carrick at C . Who plays RW after Miller.....I have no idea how they work that . Maybe move Perreault over and Berard and Rempe .

Any trades need to bring back a puck carrier to help Fox out .....I'm not sure Drury can handle this stuff . Give Pens the 25 pick...DO NOT TEMPT FATE...it's the Pens and the Rangers and we know how that will go !!!

The expectation should be that Drury is keeping the pick. He isn’t going to push it so the next guy can use it and he can’t

 

[LokiDog]

I think he could be a part of a championship team here and is the kind of player you build around regardless of situation. I was just establishing some parameters. If you didn’t think that was the case then the rest of the discussion points [for anyone who sees thag very basic original premise] is moot.

I think there are a list of about 10 different players or considerations to evaluate at least before I would think it is necessary to take a magnifying glass to Fox’s future here. Just my take. Many others feel strongly about theirs. But I am not the intellectually lazy crap police

I guess I’m simply confused as to what about my post triggered that conversation. I said this team’s window is closed. As in Zibanejad, Kreider, Panarin, formerly Lindgren, formerly Trouba. It’s over. I didn’t say boo one way or the other about Fox’s future and whatever/whenever the next window will be. I was responding to a post that said the season was mostly due to normal aging and all I said was these were some pretty steep year over year fall offs and that Fox at 27 had a pretty “off” year himself, which didn't have to do with age. If you were just using it as a jumping off point, fine. It felt like you were taking issue with what I said about the window being closed.

 

[bernmeister]

bern busy w/crazy shit in the real world; some day the story may be told
that said, briefly for now, as to this...

The Rangers have flamed out this season and you are taking victory laps on Fox hitting ten goals this season. Another season without a championship and they are so far away from actually winning a championship but you bring up Fox. Adam is one of the biggest disappointments on this team and a major reason why the Rangers failed to make the playoffs in a mediocre conference.

View attachment 1012881
That’s what you got from my post?

Note: this is exactly the type of intellectually lazy crap I went off the rails about a month ago (don’t worry, this will be the only time I mention it). Snarky single sentence response that isn’t even related to what I posted and is just triggered because I mentioned one of the sacred cows by name.


Did I say anything that indicated Fox’s window to be on a championship team in NY was closed? I said that this teams window is closed, which is hardly controversial. Fox? Literally all I said was 60 points was an off year.

As for whether he can be on a championship team in NY? Since you asked, I guess that’s entirely dependent upon how quickly the team can retool and restock. He’s 27 now, 28 next and it seems unlikely we have the talent and pieces to compete before he’s 29-30 if things go well. That’s fine. Zibanejad and Miller will be 34-35 at that point, so we likely will need to have found a younger center to carry the mail on the top line, replaced the offensive production of Panarin and Kreider, solidified the defense, fixed the 2 year shelf life of coaches. There’s a lot of work to be done. If it goes passed 2-3 years to open a new window? Who the hell knows? Fox isn’t the most athletic guy - I’m not gonna sit here and hypothesize what his 31+ seasons look like. Igor will be 33-34 by then. You have to imagine one, if not both, of the NMCs are still here in 36 year old Miller/Zibs.

Not a single word of that is me saying FOX can’t be part of a contender due to his age. Is it okay to question if we can reassemble a contender before his age gets significantly higher? What’s the realistic expectation here?

I get the pro Fox people, but that said, we all need to be honest and look at the return. If it is not enuf, ok, we don't give Adam away.
But if it's reasonably high, you take the profit.
Soon, he's another NMC
that shit gotta stop, across the board

have an open mind peeps

 

[Alluckks]

I guess I’m simply confused as to what about my post triggered that conversation. I said this team’s window is closed. As in Zibanejad, Kreider, Panarin, formerly Lindgren, formerly Trouba. It’s over. I didn’t say boo one way or the other about Fox’s future and whatever/whenever the next window will be. I was responding to a post that said the season was mostly due to normal aging and all I said was these were some pretty steep year over year fall offs and that Fox at 27 had a pretty “off” year himself, which didn't have to do with age. If you were just using it as a jumping off point, fine. It felt like you were taking issue with what I said about the window being closed.

I think the window for all the players you mentioned is gone, on just about any team. I think Fox is a player I would keep regardless and don’t think he really had much of an off year to the point it concerns me much at all, and especially not as a priority over a laundry list of other things. I think Panarin could still be a part of a championship team but not here

 

[DanielBrassard]

Adam Fox has posted career bests in each of these categories this season: CF%, xGF%, P/60 at 5v5, Primary Assists/60 at 5v5, and total assists/60 at 5v5. Lmao.

 

[tiggles]

If Drury's MO as GM is to bring in as many bottom pairing defensemen as possible, Messier's will be to bring in as many fourth liners as possible.