Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

I've said on numerous occasions that he has had a poor season. And that he's probably not going to be here next year.

What I've pushed back on is what I think is speculation of many on this board for the reasons why, when there has never been a track record of any of the things he's being accused of.

If all those things come out to be true, I'll gladly say I was wrong.
Looking at it objectively, some signs have been present. He should've been the obvious choice to wear the C & he was passed over for a younger guy who didn't have nearly the tenure. The team's lack of leadership & entitlement has been on display since the purge of '18 & Quinn took over. The team has completely tuned out 3 coaches & thumbed their noses at them, egregiously, in the process. There's been two constants throughout this, the Wonder Twins & Panarin.

As well liked as Kreider seems to be by his teammates, there's an obvious culture problem on this team that he clearly had something to do with. This doesn't absolve the coaches or management, because I believe the culture is rotten from the top down for the entire organization. but I do think he's had a big part in it. It shouldn't diminish what he's accomplished as a player, but it's unfortunately time for a divorce.
 
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I've said on numerous occasions that he has had a poor season. And that he's probably not going to be here next year.

What I've pushed back on is what I think is speculation of many on this board for the reasons why, when there has never been a track record of any of the things he's being accused of.

If all those things come out to be true, I'll gladly say I was wrong.
CK is very divisive on the boards because he's got the talent to play like a speedy power forward, but just doesn't.

Its pretty common knowledge he doesn't want a leadership role. Those things make it pretty easy to blame him when the failing of a team is its spine.

The moves Drury made were removing goodrow and Trouba, both additions by subtractions, and the team somehow lost any spine it had. Now is Kreider the only one to blame here? Absolutely not. But he lost 50 points this season.

The team had zero wins when down by two or more goals at any point in the game.
The team had 20+ times where they gave up 2 goals in under a minute.

Both of those things speak to the core being mentally checked out.
 
So? He's my favorite player.

But that said, if he is really what a lot of youse say he is then why is he still here? Certainly the team, the coaches, and the front office must see it too if people on a message board see it. Why not bench him like Tony DeAngelo? Waive him. Tempers flare and punches are thrown vs. being a season long cancer. What's worse? You have to think of the team and not the individual and get that element out of the room.

If it comes out that all of youse were right, I will have no problems telling you that you were and that I was wrong. Until that day comes we're going to be at an impasse.

He's been a career Ranger but if you listen to the podcasts out there where there are ties to the organization and the players then you'd have to concur that he was a big part of "the room problem" as was/is his play on the ice.

I wanted him to end his career as a Ranger but this is an irreconcilable divorce at this point.

Either Drury goes or Kreider goes and one of them has the power to make that decision. And it's not Kreider. Any decent offer and he's gone.
 
What? You've talked to him? You're around him everyday? By definition of prima donna has Chris Kreider ever demanded special treatment? Is he temperamental, demanding, self-centered?

Or is that only in YOUR head?
I have eyes, we can all see his demeanor and his effort. It’s ok, in 3 more games we’ll never have to agree to disagree about him again :nod:
 
Drury has shown a pretty unique willingness to make big changes. Not many GM’s would have waived Goodrow or pretty much forced Trouba out. Those moves were 100% needed. He traded Lindgren which was a good move and likely unpopular in the locker room. He has veteran players on the block. I think this offseason was always going to be a crossroads but this year having the wheels fall off like they have was not planned.

I’d be willing to give Drury another year if I could better understand his long term vision. I like the idea that he is bringing back a hard nosed, higher energy playing style and the young players he’s promoted bring that. Trochek was that type of signing. Miller brings that. The issue is the leftovers
Yes, those moves were needed because there is no way we could have finished 30 points lower in the standings this year without them.
 
CK is very divisive on the boards because he's got the talent to play like a speedy power forward, but just doesn't.

Its pretty common knowledge he doesn't want a leadership role. Those things make it pretty easy to blame him when the failing of a team is its spine.

The moves Drury made were removing goodrow and Trouba, both additions by subtractions, and the team somehow lost any spine it had. Now is Kreider the only one to blame here? Absolutely not. But he lost 50 points this season.

The team had zero wins when down by two or more goals at any point in the game.
The team had 20+ times where they gave up 2 goals in under a minute.

Both of those things speak to the core being mentally checked out.
What I don't get is the reaction: It was pretty much common knowledge that Trouba and Goodrow had to go -- it had been talked about ad nauseum for over a year and Drury would have no deal flexibility until one or both were gone. And when he did move them, he was hailed as a hero. Then the players threw a hissy fit, go into a tailspin and suddenly Drury was a villain (please note -- I am NOT praising him especially considering his later actions).
 
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Yes, those moves were needed because there is no way we could have finished 30 points lower in the standings this year without them.
The team quit before most of the moves happened. Their record was something like 4-16 in the 20 games before Tuba was sent packing. If Goodrow leaving was the straw that broke the camels back, there were much bigger problems.

Anyone with half a brain realized after the playoffs ended that this core wasn't good enough to get past the Conference Finals & changes needed to be made. I may not agree with all guys who were brought in or the Igor deal, but I have no issue with the guys who were shipped out, especially Tuba.

My biggest issue is that there's still no clear view of what this team is going to look like for the long term. If Drury plans to run a defense of Fox, Miller & four 3rd pair guys, we're going to be spinning our wheels for the foreseeable future.
 
We're getting closer and closer to Laviolette and Housley being canned. Drury will be here next season.

Why am I so harsh on Housley? Because I think he was was a terrible hire by Laviolette/Drury.

Buffalo Sabres - 2nd in goals against.
Arizona - Defense issues

WC - USA
2010-2011 - No medal
2013-2014 - Bronze
2014-2015 - No medal

Outside of the WC Jr's, i can't remember anything successful.

FYI - I am not giving the effortless team a pass either.
 
Loyalty is something that goes in more than one direction. I get that some of these players are thinking they've made two long runs and now the team is dumping two players that the team (not necessarily the fans) think are important not only to the on ice business but the bond that they have between each other, the culture and to team leadership.......and Drury didn't do a good job of selling that to them. I'm retired now but back when I did work if my bosses pissed me off they would know it. There could be mutual unhappiness then because when I'm pissed I'm an asshole....maybe pissed or not I'm just an asshole anyway. So I wouldn't sit here and tell Goodrow, Trouba or Kreider how they should feel or how they should act. That said they're also f***ing millionaires many times over......and like others they spout out lines like it's a privilege to play a pro sport blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like please......I don't really need all these kinds of hokey cliches. But here is what Kreider needs to know if he doesn't know it already. You take a stand---whether or not you were right to do it be prepared to take the consequences for it. There's no point in boo hooing about them later. You did what you did and they're going to do what they're going to do.

Out of this dispute everyone came out a loser. The players, the GM, the coaching staff, the owner (who really cares about him?), the fans. We can feel sorry for ourselves---'we pay for their exorbitant salaries' etc. etc. etc.......so what, we can always stop anytime we want to. So now it's going to have to be sorted out.
 
Housley has a terrible track record but man-on-man D is a Laviolette thing. Housley is here because he'll execute it.

Execute them both (from active contracts).

Whoever suggested Jay Woodcroft on here should know he runs man-on-man as well.
 
Soucy Fox is actually performing well. Unlike Lindgren, Soucy isn't dragging Fox down.
Small sample size sure, but they're performing like a true top pair.

xgf of 65% in 135 minutes.
Soucy might be dumber than rocks but he has an actual toolset to work with that Lindgren did not have, this kinda tracks
 
If K. Miller goes, who takes those minutes and responsibilities? A lot of athletes don't want to come to New York anymore because of the taxes, city issues, and weather.

We can't assume Gavrikov or Provorov will make it to UFA and want to be here.
 
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If K. Miller goes, who takes those minutes and responsibilities? A lot of athletes don't want to come to New York anymore because of the taxes, city issues, and weather.

We can't assume Gavrikov or Provorov will make it to UFA and want to be here.
As I said in the post Go Away was responding to, you trade him for a top 4 LD who is steadier, but perhaps doesn’t have the perceived upside that Miller has. You are right, we can’t afford to just give him away without another LD or young C coming back.
 
Housley has a terrible track record but man-on-man D is a Laviolette thing. Housley is here because he'll execute it.

Execute them both (from active contracts).

Whoever suggested Jay Woodcroft on here should know he runs man-on-man as well.
Wrong. Woodcroft realized he couldn't win a Cup playing man to man after losing to Cassidy's team playing zone. Edmonton was the better team in that series in 2023. They lost. He changed the coverage to zone and it took the Oilers a while to figure it out. Management fired him.


Changing a system takes time. AV wanted to play man on man after Torts. It took time. The Rangers were awful the first 10 weeks of the season. They figured it out and lost in the Cup final that seasom.

Man to man can work if you have the right personnel. Or a hybrid. There is no set system. Florida is a hybrid team. Drury hired a coach who plays man on man.

All of these won Cups playing a zone or a hybrid.

2023: Vegas, Zone
2022: Colorado, Hybrid
2021: Tampa Bay, Hybrid
2020: Tampa Bay, Hybrid
2019: St. Louis, Zone
2018: Washington, Zone
2017: Pittsburgh, Zone
2016: Pittsburgh, Zone
2015: Chicago, Zone
2014: Los Angeles, Hybrid
2013: Chicago, Zone
2012: Los Angeles, Hybrid
2011: Boston, Zone
2010: Chicago, Zone

AB: To play a hybrid or a man-on-man system you need strong skating defencemen with good ability to defend one-on-one battles. In a zone system the defencemen will not get above the dots and their area of defending tends to be along the boards versus in open ice. Carolina can play man-on-man because they have elite skating defencemen, Florida can play a hybrid because of the mobile players they have on the back end, while a team like Tampa Bay switched back to a zone coverage this season with the changes they had at the back end of their roster.
JB: Jon Cooper is no fool. Do you see any teams out there that might have the wrong style defence corps for the system they use?

Great coaches adjust to their personnel.
 
Nemeth was a negative by both metrics and by eye test.

Soucy is not showing to be a negative.

At his cap hit. If he’s at least a capable partner for Fox. He’s doable for one more year.
He's been so bleh, is slow, and undynamic. Watching him is a bland experience. He's also out of position a lot.

If there's a way to eat 50% and get like a 5th for him, I'd sign up 24/7/365.
 
Who are some realistic options and which teams would do that?
Columbus. J.D. is familiar with him. Werenski is always injured and they could be losing Provolov. The Jets are losing Pionk, and will be left with only 1 puck moving D. The Kings have reportedly been interested in him before, and only have RD who are considered puck movers, with one being a rookie, and the other is close to 40. Edmonton. There are probably a lot of teams that think that they can straighten Miller out, and some may actually be able to. That’s why I think his trade value is greater than his actual value. We just need to be sure we get equal or better value in turn.
 

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