Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[NYR Viper]

I am very much looking forward to moving on from Panarin but if we go into next season minus he and Kreider with Frederic the only add at forward we are beyond f***ed.

I mean is that true? Panarin scores a lot on the PP. So does Miller. Zibanejad should. Panarin and Zibanejad have always wanted to play the same spot on that unit. Cuylle in for Kreider.

Cuylle
Zibanejad-Trochek-Miller
Fox

Lafreniere should get more minutes.

I don’t disagree that they’d be looking for more offense but is replacing Kreider’s points that hard?

 

[Uglybstrd]

Roses are red
Violets are blue
The Rangers are blue
Everything is just blue
I'm blue da ba dee da ba di

No more mushrooms for you

 

[bleedblue94]

Are we serious with this? Torts has lost every room he's been in since he left here. Honestly he's basically ruined what was considered a young and up and coming team. I think people forget the journey hes been on since he left here. The guy is coasting off his stanley cup win that St.Louis, boyle, Richards, and Lecavalier handed him. We can get a coach without recycling another coach who has a best before date. It's not Torts or nobody. There's tons of coaches out there, and I was told that Laviolette was gonna "straighten" these guys out, old school coaching doesn't work anymore. Been through it, players want a two way street now because they get paid no matter what, the only guy getting fired for lack of production is the coach, so guys like Torts and Laviolette can't make it anymore because players tune them out without mutual respect. Call it soft or whatever but everyone has to understand that once a guy gets a multi million dollar contract in his pocket he doesn't wanna be yelled at like a little kid, because he doesn't have to anymore. Drury and Laviolette haven't moved on to the new style of nhl'er, and they are both still stuck in the 80s

Torts burns teams out, but virtually every one of those teams have a culture and fabric built into them by the time he leaves and they don't when he is hired. Again, different teams need different things at different times. Torts isn't going to win you a championship at this point, he's going to build you a base and a foundation so that when he leaves the next coach gets you to the mountain. Right now this team has no foundation.

 

[bleedblue94]

I would have thought it more possible before the York stuff came out.

I don't know if it got physical or the if rumors that he told York not to sign back in Philly bc he would bury him are true, but something clearly happened there and I tend to lean towards it being the former because York got scratched right after Torts got fired/resigned/whatever (maybe it was both.)

You can accomplish what you're looking for with out Torts and the Diva problem is probably better solved by moving them out rather than giving someone else a chance to wrangle them.

Yeah, I'm not set on torts being the answer, but I'm not sure how many more torts like guys are still options. I realize that says something about a dying breed but they do still have a purpose at certain times, and torts comes with the aura that the players know what's coming and they can't intimidate him. The only reason lavy is still the coach here is bc even if Drury wanted to fire him he couldn't be he couldn't be perceived as weak and caving to the players. That's in part bc Drury has no real history or runway other that being an AGM. The biggest reason I don't see torts happening at this moment is he would completely overshadow drury's presence in the organization that Drury is president of

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Torts burns teams out, but virtually every one of those teams have a culture and fabric built into them by the time he leaves and they don't when he is hired. Again, different teams need different things at different times. Torts isn't going to win you a championship at this point, he's going to build you a base and a foundation so that when he leaves the next coach gets you to the mountain. Right now this team has no foundation.

Imo that's a myth, he kinda did it here a bit but honestly we just had an elite goalie and a bunch of defensive dmen in their prime. Teams get better after he leaves because he leaves, not because he built something, by the time he's gone players are sick of his shit and just happy to play for someone else.

 

[bleedblue94]

Imo that's a myth, he kinda did it here a bit but honestly we just had an elite goalie and a bunch of defensive dmen in their prime. Teams get better after he leaves because he leaves, not because he built something, by the time he's gone players are sick of his shit and just happy to play for someone else.

Agree to disagree. Plenty of players have advocated and backed up what I said. Many still talk about it. But also yes, I'm sure there is a bump when he leaves bc there is air again. That contributes to the bump when he leaves no doubt.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Omf this goalie is ass haha

 

[Roo Returns]

Jay Leach, Brad Shaw, Dan Muse, and Jay Pandolfo are my short list for who I'd like to coach the team next season.

 

[mike14]

Imo that's a myth, he kinda did it here a bit but honestly we just had an elite goalie and a bunch of defensive dmen in their prime. Teams get better after he leaves because he leaves, not because he built something, by the time he's gone players are sick of his shit and just happy to play for someone else.

Do teams even really get better after he leaves?
Granted it's a very small sample size outside of the Rangers, but
- The 'Nucks finished 5th in the division in his last year, had an up year but still got bounced in the first round the next, and then didn't make the playoffs again until 2 coaches and few seasons later when most of the Torts coached players were gone
- Columbus are still very much 'meh' 4 seasons after he's gone
- I guess we'll see with Philly

I'm sure there are players who really liked being coached by Torts, just like there would be guys who hated it.
He just doesn't seem to get any tangible results anywhere he goes and really hasn't since 12-13

 

[JimmyG89]

Anyone actually expecting Drury to be fired is crazy. Sure Dolan wants to win, but he made a boat load off the playoff games the last three years. That means something, regardless of how poor his did this season.

He has a cop out. He wanted to rid both Trouba and Goodroe before 7/1/24 and couldn't. Trouba and his agent put the kibosh on that. His response was awful by just trade blocking the whole veteran core. We heard Mika, Kreider, and Trouba rumors all season.

I don't think anyone is going to say Drury did everything right, but isn't identifying what you need to fix important? How often have we witnessed legitimate issues be re-signed?

I'll be honest, this feels like a blessing to rid guys that can't get past that you were stymied for 3 years straight in the same spot and needed something to change. That Florida series was enough. You do not have a core survive THREE 2-0 blown series leads with two of them, you won 0 games after the fact.

Gallant got a ton of shit his 2nd season and he wasn't without flaws. We've actively confirmed this is not exclusively a coaching issue. This is a roster issue and it needs to be torn down to fix it. 10, 20, and 93, all gone and there is likely more.

 

[Roo Returns]

Anyone actually expecting Drury to be fired is crazy. Sure Dolan wants to win, but he made a boat load off the playoff games the last three years. That means something, regardless of how poor his did this season.

He has a cop out. He wanted to rid both Trouba and Goodroe before 7/1/24 and couldn't. Trouba and his agent put the kibosh on that. His response was awful by just trade blocking the whole veteran core. We heard Mika, Kreider, and Trouba rumors all season.

I don't think anyone is going to say Drury did everything right, but isn't identifying what you need to fix important? How often have we witnessed legitimate issues be re-signed?

I'll be honest, this feels like a blessing to rid guys that can't get past that you were stymied for 3 years straight in the same spot and needed something to change. That Florida series was enough. You do not have a core survive THREE 2-0 blown series leads with two of them, you won 0 games after the fact.

Gallant got a ton of shit his 2nd season and he wasn't without flaws. We've actively confirmed this is not exclusively a coaching issue. This is a roster issue and it needs to be torn down to fix it. 10, 20, and 93, all gone and there is likely more.

Lebrun came out earlier today and said it's quiet but he believes Drury is going to stay and Laviolette is going to go.

This roster does have issues. They tune coaches out after 24 months. It's not a coincidence but a pattern.
Krieder is going to go. It'll be like an Adam Graves to San Jose trade from 24 years ago, or closer to the Zuc trade from six years ago.

They probably bring in two gritty veteran UFAs and hope they the team shows up pissed in the fall.

 

[bobbop]

Some random observations.

1. With very few exceptions, every coach eventually loses the room. The only question is the length of the fuse. Laviolette’s average is about 2+ seasons. If the Rangers want to hire a big name, it happens this summer. Firing a coach in November dramatically narrows the pool.

2. There was one poster who did propose moving Braden Schneider last summer. Me. Now I said that thinking Trouba would bounce back and the Rangers would never trade their captain in the middle of the season. Bad hypotheses but with Brogan slotting in as the second pair RHD, we’re right back in the same place. Depending on who the GM is next year, I can absolutely see this happening.

3. I told everyone Phil Housley was a slug before he coached one day. Last year was a mirage. He needs to be the first out the door.

4. I’d like to be a bug on the wall when Drury has his exit interview with Dolan. OK, how are you going to fix it?

5. The Rangers are going to have to work hard to sell tickets this summer. That will drive a lot of action.

 

[egelband]

First of all, i dont think any of these guys are 'bad' guys. they just dont have what it takes to lead a team to a cup. not exactly the worst thing in the world but for our purposes, i'd move out Kreider, Mika, KMiller, and Laf. I think moving Mika is next to impossible and i doubt rangers management will have the stomach to move KMiller and Laf. So i figure Kreider is moved - doubt we'll get more than futures - this summer and along with a new coach we end up with something like this for next season:
13-8-94
10-16-50
65-93-78
84-39-73
22

79-23
4-17
6-18
24


I would love 79 swapped for a top six center but either way, something like this isn't bad. And it allows new leaders to emerge. As we know, sometimes it just takes a little change to create a virtuous cycle.

 

[MrAlmost]

Anyone actually expecting Drury to be fired is crazy. Sure Dolan wants to win, but he made a boat load off the playoff games the last three years. That means something, regardless of how poor his did this season.

He has a cop out. He wanted to rid both Trouba and Goodroe before 7/1/24 and couldn't. Trouba and his agent put the kibosh on that. His response was awful by just trade blocking the whole veteran core. We heard Mika, Kreider, and Trouba rumors all season.

I don't think anyone is going to say Drury did everything right, but isn't identifying what you need to fix important? How often have we witnessed legitimate issues be re-signed?

I'll be honest, this feels like a blessing to rid guys that can't get past that you were stymied for 3 years straight in the same spot and needed something to change. That Florida series was enough. You do not have a core survive THREE 2-0 blown series leads with two of them, you won 0 games after the fact.

Gallant got a ton of shit his 2nd season and he wasn't without flaws. We've actively confirmed this is not exclusively a coaching issue. This is a roster issue and it needs to be torn down to fix it. 10, 20, and 93, all gone and there is likely more.

Most of them are his mistakes. And he's such a stupid f*** that when he failed to correct it, he created a catastrophic situation. He should make another rule about when the players are allowed to talk to MSG staff though. Thats what's really holding them back.

If all 3 of those guys are traded this summer that would be crazy. Maybe 2. Z and Kreider.

 

[RangerBoy]

What did Larry mean by “Food Fight Incident“?

I think he was making fun of the players for being upset at management over issues above their pay grade.

TB did the same stuff with McDonagh after they lost to Colorado in the finals. Accept the trade to Nashville or we are waiving you. Do you want to play in Columbus? Trucker was upset. I am sure there were TB players upset to see McDonagh in that situation. The team didn't mope and refuse to play. Two years later, McDonagh is back in TB.

Food fight is junior high school stuff.

Brooks admitted Kreider is the biggest culprit. Everyone knew that. These guys are professional athletes. Kreider can't be the only guy.

 

[RangerBoy]

Jay Leach, Brad Shaw, Dan Muse, and Jay Pandolfo are my short list for who I'd like to coach the team next season.

Jay Leach is now in Boston. I read the Bruins aren't keeping Joe Sacco. Marek said the Bruins and Joel Quenneville could be a match. Just keep that guy away from the Rangers. The Rangers don't need more drama.

Brad Shaw is a long-time assistant coach. Jim Hiller was in the same boat before getting the Kings job. Hiller has done a great job in LA. Best home record in the NHL. Byfield has become a top player. The Kings play a structured defensive style. The forwards back check too. Fiala is playing great hockey. Forget about getting him out of LA. The Kings could finally beat Edmonton with home ice. North and south.

Shaw is qualified to get an opportunity as a head coach.

The Rangers don't usually hire first time head coaches. Torts in 2000. The Rangers should have kept him.

 

[SA16]

Some random observations.

1. With very few exceptions, every coach eventually loses the room. The only question is the length of the fuse. Laviolette’s average is about 2+ seasons. If the Rangers want to hire a big name, it happens this summer. Firing a coach in November dramatically narrows the pool.

2. There was one poster who did propose moving Braden Schneider last summer. Me. Now I said that thinking Trouba would bounce back and the Rangers would never trade their captain in the middle of the season. Bad hypotheses but with Brogan slotting in as the second pair RHD, we’re right back in the same place. Depending on who the GM is next year, I can absolutely see this happening.

3. I told everyone Phil Housley was a slug before he coached one day. Last year was a mirage. He needs to be the first out the door.

4. I’d like to be a bug on the wall when Drurynhas his exit interview with Dolan. OK, how are you going to fix it?

5. The Rangers are going to have to work hard to sell tickets this summer. That will drive a lot of action.

I am pretty sure there has been more than “one poster” who has proposed moving Braden Schneider.

 

[eco's bones]

I mean is that true? Panarin scores a lot on the PP. So does Miller. Zibanejad should. Panarin and Zibanejad have always wanted to play the same spot on that unit. Cuylle in for Kreider.

Cuylle
Zibanejad-Trochek-Miller
Fox

Lafreniere should get more minutes.

I don’t disagree that they’d be looking for more offense but is replacing Kreider’s points that hard?

This is the Rangers even strength scoring this year:

1. Panarin 77gp-29g-33a-62pts
2. Lafreniere 79gp-15g-26a-41pts
3. Trocheck 79gp-15g-24a-39pts
4. Fox 71gp-7g-32a-39pts
5. Cuylle 79gp-15g-21a-36pts

It's also true that Panarin leads the team in power play points with 25. Zibanejad is second with 19. Most of Panarin's drop in production this year is because of the dysfunctional power play. Kreider and Mika use to score a lot of power play goals. Not this year. Artemi is far and away our best even strength producer and it's not even that close. He is also far and away our best even strength goal scorer with 29--three way tie for second place with Trocheck, Lafreniere and Cuylle at 15 each.

I get it if you want to move Artemi because 1) he needs a new contract which will likely be high and 2) he's getting a bit old but it's not like he hasn't been doing what he's supposed to do and this year he got a lot less help from his teammates. If our power play was ranking even in the middle of the league Artemi's probably around 100 points right now.

 

[Good Intentions]

Any roster construct involving 13 and 79 deflates my interest in these bozos.

 

[McRanger92]

Jay Leach is now in Boston. I read the Bruins aren't keeping Joe Sacco. Marek said the Bruins and Joel Quenneville could be a match. Just keep that guy away from the Rangers. The Rangers don't need more drama.

Brad Shaw is a long-time assistant coach. Jim Hiller was in the same boat before getting the Kings job. Hiller has done a great job in LA. Best home record in the NHL. Byfield has become a top player. The Kings play a structured defensive style. The forwards back check too. Fiala is playing great hockey. Forget about getting him out of LA. The Kings could finally beat Edmonton with home ice. North and south.

Shaw is qualified to get an opportunity as a head coach.

The Rangers don't usually hire first time head coaches. Torts in 2000. The Rangers should have kept him.

If Patrick Roy gets fired in the Islanders housecleaning, he will almost certainly be on the Rangers list. They interviewed him in 2022 before hiring Peter Jong Un. Just an observation, not an endorsement. He certainly has made his share of hapless players take their ball and go home in his career.

 

[JohnC]

I’d be happy to move on from Panarin, but I wince thinking about what bottom pairing defensemen and C prospect it would be for.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I’d be happy to move on from Panarin, but I wince thinking about what bottom pairing defensemen and C prospect it would be for.

If we move panarin at 50% we’re getting an A prospect and a first plus a short term cap dump

 

[RangerBoy]

If Patrick Roy gets fired in the Islanders housecleaning, he will almost certainly be on the Rangers list. They interviewed him in 2022 before hiring Peter Jong Un. Just an observation, not an endorsement. He certainly has made his share of hapless players take their ball and go home in his career.

Did the Rangers interview Roy? I remember Brooks writing the Rangers should consider Roy. Frankie Corrado of TSN suggested Roy for the Rangers job.

Can they find the next Jared Bednar? The Avs hired him in 2016 to replace Roy. The Rangers will be on their 5th head coach since Bednar was hired in Colorado.



Jared Nightingale. I remember him. He played for the Rangers minor league teams. Michigan State. He is 42 years old. This is his first head coaching job. Five years experience as an assistant coach in USHL, OHL and AHL.

Cincinnati has a good eye for identifying coaches. Carbery. Warsofsky.

Nightingale is on the path to running an NHL team in the future.

 

[McRanger92]

It shouldnt be lost on anyone that Mika actually plays with some authority on a line with JT and Cuylle as opposed to being a wallflower when playing with pansies like Kreider and Kakko.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Did the Rangers interview Roy? I remember Brooks writing the Rangers should consider Roy. Frankie Corrado of TSN suggested Roy for the Rangers job.

Can they find the next Jared Bednar? The Avs hired him in 2016 to replace Roy. The Rangers will be on their 5th head coach since Bednar was hired in Colorado.



Jared Nightingale. I remember him. He played for the Rangers minor league teams. Michigan State. He is 42 years old. This is his first head coaching job. Five years experience as an assistant coach in USHL, OHL and AHL.

Cincinnati has a good eye for identifying coaches. Carbery. Warsofsky.

Nightingale is on the path to running an NHL team in the future.

Drury is going to hire another big name fossil