Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[Pawnee Rangers]

That's a lot of top-10 players who have busted. Maybe the issue lies with the development...

I think they're just not great players. Good, useful, worthy of a contract in the NHL sure, just not 1 and 2 overall picks. I still can't identify one thing Laff does out on the ice that you would say is great or exceptional.

 

[McRanger92]

3 of those 4 teams were built around Top 4 picks, and Vegas had the first expansion draft in recent memory, where GMs had no idea what they were doing.

Getting a couple top 4 picks =/= a full rebuild. Plus in the Lightning's case it took them 12 years to win a Cup after drafting Stamkos and Hedman. Not exactly a straight shot. Same thing with MacKinnon and Landeskog. They needed years to figure things out. All Im saying is more often than not teams end up like Buffalo and Detroit.

 

[UnSandvich]

Getting a couple top 4 picks =/= a full rebuild. Plus in the Lightning's case it took them 12 years to win a Cup after drafting Stamkos and Hedman. Not exactly a straight shot. Same thing with MacKinnon and Landeskog. They needed years to figure things out. All Im saying is more often than not teams end up like Buffalo and Detroit.

Of course it’s not always immediate, and it takes time to build up a roster. But they were doing it around those top picks. And if you don’t think those teams were rebuilds I’d encourage you to go back and check, because all 3 teams were disasters

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I love people up in arms over Lavs comments post game. He’s as disgusted with and over this group as we are.

I’ve never related to a coach more.

Its pathetic that hes tyring to garner sympathy, like he can't do anything? Are the mean players forcing him to make zero changes to the PP all year? Did he try benching any of these losers even once?

He's done absolutely nothing. You're going to be fired either way, you're probably never working in this league again, show some f***ing spine and bench your high paid losers for a period or even a game, what do you possibly have to lose?

 

[McRanger92]

Of course it’s not always immediate, and it takes time to build up a roster. But they were doing it around those top picks. And if you don’t think those teams were rebuilds I’d encourage you to go back and check, because all 3 teams were disasters

Well the Rangers arent rebuilding, whether Drury is here or not. And they dont have to rebuild to get back on track. they just need a new direction. If you think a rebuild is in the cards after extending Lafreniere and Igor for 8 years and not having a first round pick next season, I have a bridge to sell you. We all know the players who need to go. Start there and move forward with a younger roster and new coach.

 

[majordomo]

you keep it if a decent/+ prospect is there at 11-12,
but tanking now to optimize it was better even before this last series of debacles

The problem with that theory is that you won't know what prospect will be there at those positions -- decision has to be made before the draft.

 

[Profet]

Well the Rangers arent rebuilding, whether Drury is here or not. And they dont have to rebuild to get back on track. they just need a new direction. If you think a rebuild is in the cards after extending Lafreniere and Igor for 8 years and not having a first round pick next season, I have a bridge to sell you. We all know the players who need to go. Start there and move forward with a younger roster and new coach.

You're not winning bupkis without drafting a top center.

You can hem and haw about rebuilds working or not working, but you simply don't win a cup without drafting a really good center.

Has it happened? Occasionally. Would I try to be one of the lucky few that can do it? Not a chance in hell.

 

[UnSandvich]

Well the Rangers arent rebuilding, whether Drury is here or not. And they dont have to rebuild to get back on track. they just need a new direction. If you think a rebuild is in the cards after extending Lafreniere and Igor for 8 years and not having a first round pick next season, I have a bridge to sell you. We all know the players who need to go. Start there and move forward with a younger roster and new coach.

Right, cool, so we’re in agreement then that all 3 of Florida, Tampa, and Colorado, teams you used as examples bc of their recent success, had their cores built via rebuild. Gotcha

 

[McRanger92]

You're not winning bupkis without drafting a top center.

You can hem and haw about rebuilds working or not working, but you simply don't win a cup without drafting a really good center.

Has it happened? Occasionally. Would I try to be one of the lucky few that can do it? Not a chance in hell.

The lack of a young center is certainly an issue. If we want to draft one, start looking at the 2027. They are going to need to find one a different way because they arent tanking for a draft in 3 years. Thats the reality of the situation.

 

[majordomo]

That was never going to be the deal with Panarin. That was a dumb ass signing by JG with hopes of speeding along a process that had barely even gotten started. That was the eject button on the entire rebuild. If you believe the Robertson+1st for Kreider rumor from the deadline in 2020, you can thank Panarin for nuking that idea when he pulled a lottery team up to one on the border of the playoffs.

If you want to shelter your youth, you overpay for 2-3 years for someone like what Panarin is now (or even a lesser player.) When you throw the contract that he actually got at any player you're basically saying you're going to try to build around him and thats exactly what they tried to do. If they passed on Panarin, they're dismantling and accumulating assets for at least another season and maybe even another 2 (they had the green light to do this too.)

It was so unnecessary and just the worst case of instant gratification that I can think of. Not Monday morning QB'ing this either, I've been against this since it was a possibility because I knew what the fall out would be.

He's actually aged better than I thought he would. It could have even worked had he been able to give them 90% of what he's done in the regular season in the playoffs but we know how thats gone.

I am convinced that the Panarin acquisition (like Kane) was a Dolan obsession.

 

[McRanger92]

Right, cool, so we’re in agreement then that all 3 of Florida, Tampa, and Colorado, teams you used as examples bc of their recent success, had their cores built via rebuild. Gotcha

The Lightning werent rebuilding when they drafted Kucherov and Point. Florida also wasnt rebuilding when they traded for Matthew Tkachuk, Sam Bennett and carter Verhaege either. You're arguing semantics. A full teardown or whatever it is people want isnt the move.

 

[CTRanger]

For me this all goes back to game 7 against the Devils in ‘23. That was the absolute most embarrassing performance I have ever seen from any team I’ve ever rooted for in 50+ yrs. They absolutely quit in that game and showed their true colors. It should have been torn down the second they stepped off the ice. Last year they hid the warts, and this year they quit again.

 

[Profet]

The lack of a young center is certainly an issue. If we want to draft one, start looking at the 2027. They are going to need to find one a different way because they arent tanking for a draft in 3 years. Thats the reality of the situation.

God forbid we draft our Ovechkin before our Backstrom...

Our Landeskog before our MacKinnon...


That would be an unpossible situation.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I am convinced that the Panarin acquisition (like Kane) was a Dolan obsession.

Maybe, but I’m not convinced. The reality of the situation is that, he’s one of the most offensively talented forwards in the history of the franchise. If that guy wants to come to your team, you sign him and figure out the rest later.

You can argue the validity of whether that’s the right move but if Panarin wants to play here and I’m the GM, I’m signing him all day long

 

[McRanger92]

God forbid we draft our Ovechkin before our Backstrom...

Our Landeskog before our MacKinnon...


That would be an unpossible situation.

I dont really get what you're saying here. We dont have a first round pick in next years draft lol. We might want to try Lafreniere on the PP one of these years as a starting point though. A team that was "rebuilding" would have probably considered putting their #1 pick on the top powerplay conistently before his 6th season in the league.

 

[majordomo]

Maybe, but I’m not convinced. The reality of the situation is that, he’s one of the most offensively talented forwards in the history of the franchise. If that guy wants to come to your team, you sign him and figure out the rest later.

You can argue the validity of whether that’s the right move but if Panarin wants to play here and I’m the GM, I’m signing him all day long

When it occurred, I said it was the right move -- only at the wrong time...same with the Trouba trade.

 

[I Eat Crow]

imo:

If pick is in the top 7, you keep it.
If it's out side of that, you take your chances and give it to Pittsburgh.

This team is not improving that much next season.

Yup.

This team will end up in a place next season where Gavin McKenna is a legitimate possibility, especially if Drury gets canned.

This is a good time for a new voice and a new vision. Let the new GM decide the direction. Drury shouldn't be given the chance to get out of the Kreider and Zibanejad contracts.

 

[Profet]

I dont really get what you're saying here. We dont have a first round pick in next years draft lol. We might want to try Lafreniere on the PP one of these years as a starting point though. A team that was "rebuilding" would have probably considered putting their #1 pick on the top powerplay conistently before his 6th season in the league.

I'm saying we should have a first round pick in next year's draft... and I think it'll be top 10.

Unless this year's pick is top 7, it's simply not worth it. This draft is very lite after the top 5-7. We have enough problems hitting on "can't miss" prospects. We shouldn't be trying to turn nothing into something.

This roster isn't a couple of moves away from competing, They are closer to a lottery team than to a cup winning team. The dreaded middle of mediocrity is exactly where you don't want to be. You either need to be bad to get better, or good enough to compete. Simply treading water is no way to build a roster.

 

[Daves a mess]

Laf - 3 goals in his last

30 GAMES

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I am convinced that the Panarin acquisition (like Kane) was a Dolan obsession.

I am not bc I'm 99% sure that he had no idea who the f*** Panarin was before he signed here. He still may not know who he is.

Kane otoh I tend to agree.

 

[McRanger92]

I'm saying we should have a first round pick in next year's draft... and I think it'll be top 10.

Unless this year's pick is top 7, it's simply not worth it. This draft is very lite after the top 5-7. We have enough problems hitting on "can't miss" prospects. We shouldn't be trying to turn nothing into something.

This roster isn't a couple of moves away from competing, They are closer to a lottery team than to a cup winning team. The dreaded middle of mediocrity is exactly where you don't want to be. You either need to be bad to get better, or good enough to compete. Simply treading water is no way to build a roster.

You are confusing me saying that a rebuild isnt necessary with saying that they will turn it around quickly. They dont even have a plan at this point. The process matters more than the results and if the process is good the Rangers will probably be a playoff team because a lot of teams dont have Shesterkin or Fox as a baseline. We are far off from winning a Cup but that doesnt mean we should be Ok with deliberately losing.

 

[DanielBrassard]

The Lightning werent rebuilding when they drafted Kucherov and Point. Florida also wasnt rebuilding when they traded for Matthew Tkachuk, Sam Bennett and carter Verhaege either. You're arguing semantics. A full teardown or whatever it is people want isnt the move.

The difference is the Lightning and Panthers had the required piece in place you need to win, it just took them a while to fill in around them. The Rangers throughout this entire process still have never had the elite #1 center required to win. That’s even more true today as Zibanejad is well past his peak, and J.T. miller is not the answer for anything. Those situations are not at all similar to where the Rangers are now.

 

[Profet]

I dont really get what you're saying here. We dont have a first round pick in next years draft lol. We might want to try Lafreniere on the PP one of these years as a starting point though. A team that was "rebuilding" would have probably considered putting their #1 pick on the top powerplay conistently before his 6th season in the league.

I'm saying that your center doesn't have to be your first drafted star player.

If we can draft a couple of supporting stars BEFORE we draft our top center, that will make the rebuild faster.

 

[RangerBoy]

It's unlikely that either of Anaheim or Buffalo will pass us, but if all of Detroit, Columbus and the Islanders pass us, we'll have the 10th pick and a couple shots at a top 2 pick.

Detroit needs at least 1 point tonight to pass us. The Islanders need a win. Columbus will tie us on points with a win, but we still hold the tiebreaker.

I'm hoping Detroit beats Montreal tonight in regulation. Let the teams chasing Montreal believe they still have a chance so that they'll keep playing hard.

James Reimer is rolling. He is starting again tonight for Buffalo. Reimer has received more of the starts for Buffalo.

 

[Profet]

We are far off from winning a Cup but that doesnt mean we should be Ok with deliberately losing.

But we're ok with unintentionally losing?

We simply don't have the talent or pipeline to build a winner with the current roster and assets.

The choices are:

- deliberately lose and create a way out through the draft.
- unintentionally lose and keep spending draft capital on Soucy level players.

I know which one I'd pick.