Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[Homelander]

It's not just that Drury is a poor evaluator of talent. He has no idea how to be an exec and how to build a team. He has consistently shown that he cannot be trusted to keep his mouth shut, he rules with an iron fist even when he's done nothing to warrant that type of gravitas, he doesn't know how to finesse certain situations, and he'll often make the wrong decision when up against the wall.


The first clue that you knew Drury was out of his element was the Buchnevich trade. Not to beat a beyond dead horse, but the trade didn't make a modicum of sense. Yes, trading Buchnevich made some sense as they wanted to give more ice-time to Kakko and Laf. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with trading a PPG player at the time for a 2nd rounder and a bottom-six guy. He traded Buch like he was a cap dump instead of maximizing his value.

 

[leetch99]

Right; the guy playing 11 minutes on the 4th line is the reason why they stink. Not Trocheck, not Laff, not turnover machine, alpha male JT Miller, not the other Miller, not Mika. Sweet story bro.

You will catch on someday.....a fire starts with a spark that smoulders....

 

[JohnC]

Coach Q would crawl to MSG for the chance to be the head coach of this team

He was banished from the league for covering up sexual abuse by someone on his staff, he’d crawl to any arena for the chance to coach again.

 

[effen]

The first clue that you knew Drury was out of his element was the Buchnevich trade. Not to beat a beyond dead horse, but the trade didn't make a modicum of sense. Yes, trading Buchnevich made some sense as they wanted to give more ice-time to Kakko and Laf. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with trading a PPG player at the time for a 2nd rounder and a bottom-six guy. He traded Buch like he was a cap dump instead of maximizing his value.

You have no reason to believe me (I am unreliable and known to invent whole fantasies like being a loving husband and having a successful career) but the league did not value Buchnevich. He was known to be available for months and there was practically no market for him.

You might say that it's Drury's job to create a market, and maybe? But at a certain point you can't manifest interest for your guys. Maybe it was the car accident in Brooklyn.

This has been memory holed with Ryan McDonagh too where the only other offer than Tampas was Toronto offering iirc Jeremy Bracco (scrub small slow scoring guy very unlikely to pan out) and a mid round pick.

Whether this is happenstance or ineptitude or teams not wanting to trade with the New York Rangers who have a very odd Canadian bias against them that is real is hard to say.

 

[GAGLine]

We'll either win or we'll losing embarrassingly. There won't be a close loss.

Most of our wins are embarrassing lately too.

 

[TGWL]

The exit meeting better end with our organization telling the entire roster, "they better show up to camp in the best shape of their lives or they won't be happy about roster decisions." Specific players need to be called out for their skating. Time to become adult hockey players.

 

[LionsHeart]

I thought Drury was in over his head as soon as Gorton and JD were let go.

 

[haohmaru]

You have no reason to believe me (I am unreliable and known to invent whole fantasies like being a loving husband and having a successful career) but the league did not value Buchnevich. He was known to be available for months and there was practically no market for him.

You might say that it's Drury's job to create a market, and maybe? But at a certain point you can't manifest interest for your guys. Maybe it was the car accident in Brooklyn.

This has been memory holed with Ryan McDonagh too where the only other offer than Tampas was Toronto offering iirc Jeremy Bracco (scrub small slow scoring guy very unlikely to pan out) and a mid round pick.

Whether this is happenstance or ineptitude or teams not wanting to trade with the New York Rangers who have a very odd Canadian bias against them that is real is hard to say.

If they’re not offering enough you keep the players. I mean, that seems like the obvious play. No?

 

[Alluckks]

Glad we cashed in on McDonagh. Should definitely keep doing that with top players in their 20s

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If they’re not offering enough you keep the players. I mean, that seems like the obvious play. No?

Aside from the obvious point you say, it’s also complete BS the league didn’t value Buchnevich

It was confirmed by Edge that Drury had an least one other offer from LA that included a 1st rounder

So no, it’s not a lack of interest. It’s our moron GM taking a worse offer because he thought he could turn Sammy Blais into something

 

[Machinehead]

Let's take a generous view of Soucy and say he's a solid complimentary defender.

That's still stupid. That's a dime a dozen role player that we're going to play a bigger role than he needs because that's what we do.

I thought we were having a pretty decent deadline. Always hated the Miller trade but at least on the day of I thought "ok, we're selling off some pieces, maybe we'll change directions."

I said it when it happened - the Soucy trade ruined the whole deadline. And people said it was an overreaction but it's not because the move itself was so consequential. It's because it showed they learned nothing.

They decided that Will Borgen is their archetype defenseman. Not a cute little role player that plays #6 minutes -- the type of player the corps should be built around, and they went and got a few of him.

Let's talk about "ideal" for a second -- which is something this franchise hasn't had since Bill Cook and probably won't have until I'm dead. Ideal would have been an A/B situation with another great defenseman who excels at what Fox is weak at. Instead it's gonna be Fox and Borgen⁵ for a generation of Rangers hockey. That's the defense they envision winning the Cup with.

32 year old, always had flaws, been traded by three teams, JT Miller is the 1C they envision winning the Cup with.

Alexander Ovechkin just scored the most goals in NHL history. The guy has one Stanley Cup. And we're trying to win with guys who if they served Ovechkin a hot dog, he would complain to his agent.

 

[IDvsEGO]

You need someone in the President’s role who Dolan respects, and who cares about the organization. That’s why I want Messier. Let a real GM handle the day to day and a hardass coach.

It’s weird how Rangers fans hate their own history. Messier gets treated like an enemy of the state despite correctly identifying the issues with the team every time he speaks about them. He’s a leader, he’s respected league wide. He’s qualified whether you like it or not. Was Drury qualified? I’d say yes, and he’s been a dud.

Messier gets treated like an enemy of the state because the dude doesn't want to actually work his way up the chain the way any other quality GM/Coach has done.
He wants to be handed shit because of 94. F that.

Great he successfully identified the problem. Clearly so did Drury.
Messier had a very successful playing career, that does not include talent evaluation or coaching or cap management.

The second he got offended that the rangers wanted him to go to Hartford and be AGM was the second I washed my hands of him.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

They decided that Will Borgen is their archetype defenseman. Not a cute little role player that plays #6 minutes -- the type of player the corps should be built around, and they went and got a few of him.

What’s even more wild about this is, they decided this after like 5 weeks!

He was here and played decent for 2 weeks and they were like ya know what, let’s give this guy 5 years.

And go trade for his buddy that Vancouver was happy to be rid of!

 

[NickyFotiu]

The allure of coaching or being the GM of a NY team still exists imo. Original Six team. I'm not saying they can hire anyone they want, but I don't think they'll struggle to attract interest from prospective candidates if one or both spots open up.

Almost any NHL job is in demand since there are so few but finding a GM that can build a cup team available will not be so easy. Id be fine with Q as coach. He may have made mistakes but he wasn't the criminal.

 

[Machinehead]

Messier gets treated like an enemy of the state because the dude doesn't want to actually work his way up the chain the way any other quality GM/Coach has done.
He wants to be handed shit because of 94. F that.

Great he successfully identified the problem. Clearly so did Drury.
Messier had a very successful playing career, that does not include talent evaluation or coaching or cap management.

The second he got offended that the rangers wanted him to go to Hartford and be AGM was the second I washed my hands of him.

Yeah, like, that's my whole thing.

If we want to get rid of a culture that people have described as entitled and a country club, why would we hire a guy that wants to be handed the job and hasn't worked in 21 years?

I'll acknowledge what Messier did as a player, but his resume as an executive consists entirely of "I'm part of the club."

He's not gonna get young, hungry guys. He's gonna trade them for guys that won elsewhere, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE DID IN '94 WHEN HE HAD PULL!!!!

Again, he won the Cup, and you can't take that away from him, but he's absolutely part of NYR mercenary culture. He was a mercenary as a player and he wants to be a mercenary as an executive.

We already have an organization that leans on bringing in gritty vets. Messier wouldn't be anything new.

 

[JohnC]

Messier gets treated like an enemy of the state because the dude doesn't want to actually work his way up the chain the way any other quality GM/Coach has done.
He wants to be handed shit because of 94. F that.

Great he successfully identified the problem. Clearly so did Drury.
Messier had a very successful playing career, that does not include talent evaluation or coaching or cap management.

The second he got offended that the rangers wanted him to go to Hartford and be AGM was the second I washed my hands of him.

The same people that cried all season long about the players quitting on the team conveniently forget that Messier literally quit the organization because they hired AV to replace Torts instead of him

 

[effen]

If they’re not offering enough you keep the players. I mean, that seems like the obvious play. No?

I'm not a GM. There's probably other things at play than seeing if the trade slider is green.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers had practice today. Did anyone besides Brodzinski and Gabe speak to the media?

 

[Mac n Gs]

The same people that cried all season long about the players quitting on the team conveniently forget that Messier literally quit the organization because they hired AV to replace Torts instead of him

Rangers fans love to fall over themselves when it comes to things that appeal to their base emotions, whether it’s acting like a cymbals-clapping monkey thinking terrible players like Rempe provide anything of value to this team, or listening to a fossil like Messier calling them soft and complaining about how thing were back in his day.

You wanna know why the Rangers aren’t good or won’t win anything anytime soon? It’s because they keep falling upwards into generational safety blankets in net and never try to actually build teams that don’t over-rely on goaltending. That’s their organizational philosophy. Have a goalie cover as many mistakes as possible and pray for the best. Every other good team has realized that you win by controlling play through the NZ with speed, and the Rangers haven’t bothered defending it since 2015. They build down the middle attack/defend in layers as 5-man units. We chase around the zone and then try connecting on 85-foot stretch passes. Their only offensive strategy this year is cycling and taking low-percentage point shots with minimal traffic in front.

It’s a joke. Who cares about their “history?” Their history is one Cup in 84 years. Spare me with that as if they’re some storied franchise outside of being one of the Original Six.

 

[JohnC]

Rangers fans love to fall over themselves when it comes to things that appeal to their base emotions, whether it’s acting like a cymbals-clapping monkey thinking terrible players like Rempe provide anything of value to this team, or listening to a fossil like Messier calling them soft and complaining about how thing were back in his day.

You wanna know why the Rangers aren’t good or won’t win anything anytime soon? It’s because they keep falling upwards into generational safety blankets in net and never try to actually build teams that don’t over-rely on goaltending. That’s their organizational philosophy. Have a goalie cover as many mistakes as possible and pray for the best. Every other good team has realized that you win by controlling play through the NZ with speed, and the Rangers haven’t bothered defending it since 2015. They build down the middle attack/defend in layers as 5-man units. We chase around the zone and then try connecting on 85-foot stretch passes. Their only offensive strategy this year is cycling and taking low-percentage point shots with minimal traffic in front.

It’s a joke. Who cares about their “history?” Their history is one Cup in 84 years. Spare me with that as if they’re some storied franchise outside of being one of the Original Six.

The team building approach has been to take the worst parts of the AV-era Rangers and combine them with the worst parts of the 2012-2014 Kings. It’s like they don’t pay attention to how other championship teams have been built since we’ve exited the decade of Kings-Hawks-Pens dominance.

 

[Roo Returns]

Messier in any leadership position would be a great way to set the team back 15-20 years. For all the complaining about Drury's quick rise, he was at least doing something in the org leadership. Messier demands everything be handed to him on a silver platter while doing 0 work to earn it. He has 0 connections in the industry, has 0 qualifications besides being a former player, and his analysis in studio is so surface level I genuinely don't know if he understands modern hockey anymore.

Bu-bu-but he will tell tales of 94 and how in the 80s he threatened to throw some guy off a plane.

#Toffness

I love Mess as much as the next guy and I'm forever grateful for 94. That, the 86 Mets (they're doing another documentary apparently) and a few things in wrestling like the Montreal Screwjob and Hell in The Cell are things that really don't need to be discussed any further.

 

[bleedblue94]

He looks like the exact same player only he gets to play on a power play that works and collect some points while getting run over all night.

Just curious, how many of the senators games have you actually watched since the trade?

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Let's take a generous view of Soucy and say he's a solid complimentary defender.

That's still stupid. That's a dime a dozen role player that we're going to play a bigger role than he needs because that's what we do.

I thought we were having a pretty decent deadline. Always hated the Miller trade but at least on the day of I thought "ok, we're selling off some pieces, maybe we'll change directions."

I said it when it happened - the Soucy trade ruined the whole deadline. And people said it was an overreaction but it's not because the move itself was so consequential. It's because it showed they learned nothing.

They decided that Will Borgen is their archetype defenseman. Not a cute little role player that plays #6 minutes -- the type of player the corps should be built around, and they went and got a few of him.

Let's talk about "ideal" for a second -- which is something this franchise hasn't had since Bill Cook and probably won't have until I'm dead. Ideal would have been an A/B situation with another great defenseman who excels at what Fox is weak at. Instead it's gonna be Fox and Borgen⁵ for a generation of Rangers hockey. That's the defense they envision winning the Cup with.

32 year old, always had flaws, been traded by three teams, JT Miller is the 1C they envision winning the Cup with.

Alexander Ovechkin just scored the most goals in NHL history. The guy has one Stanley Cup. And we're trying to win with guys who if they served Ovechkin a hot dog, he would complain to his agent.

This the shit I come to this site for

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Let's talk about "ideal" for a second -- which is something this franchise hasn't had since Bill Cook and probably won't have until I'm dead. Ideal would have been an A/B situation with another great defenseman who excels at what Fox is weak at. Instead it's gonna be Fox and Borgen⁵ for a generation of Rangers hockey. That's the defense they envision winning the Cup with.

Yes because 30 years ago it worked with Leetch and Beukeboom we need to re-create it. Drives me up the wall. Colorado got Makar and was like you know what lets go out and get Towes and have an unreal top pair. We get Fox and pair him with Warrior and everyone got boners from their youth. Admittedly, I did like it at first but we all knew what the outcome and ceiling of that was.

I haven't been watching much but I think I saw Soucy is playing with Fox? Like really? There's about 6-7 guys in the organization that I would rather have play with Fox. 2 of them would probably be forwards too.