Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[HatTrick Swayze]

I have a hard time getting behind the “players quit” narrative when half these guys appear to be following an entirely predictable aging curve and the other half, I’m not sure how good they were to begin with.

Is Kreider “quitting” or is he just going through the inevitable decline a 33 year old NHL player usually goes through and we are all inventing a narrative to make ourselves feel better, that the org isn’t on the downswing.

 

[bhamill]

Laf is dogshit

How can I argue with such a well thought out response?

 

[McRanger92]

I have a hard time getting behind the “players quit” narrative when half these guys appear to be following an entirely predictable aging curve and the other half, I’m not sure how good they were to begin with.

Is Kreider “quitting” or is he just going through the inevitable decline a 33 year old NHL player usually goes through and we are all inventing a narrative to make ourselves feel better, that the org isn’t on the downswing.

If the veteran players are all declining at the same time, it just proves management was well within their rights to start moving out overpaid guys.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

If the veteran players are all declining at the same time, it just proves management was well within their rights to start moving out overpaid guys.

Sure. It also proves they shouldn’t have been hemorrhaging draft picks and other assets to make this team a “contender”

 

[Machinehead]

Cant tell if this is sarcasm or not

He only has 59 points.

We talked about it with Lafreniere -- if guys are the type of player Bedard was expected to be, we usually see it by now. I would be concerned if I was a Hawks fan.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Look I'm not gonna cry if they fire Chris Drury. But if he is the fall guy, Laviolette and these veterans need to go too. The GM cant make the players act like grown men. Only looking in the mirror can do that. But, as I said, Ive seen far more from drury in terms of trying to fix the issues than I have from the players or coach. That matters from where Im standing. And Im not necessarily upset that Drury has been tough on the players. As with all things, the people who want him gone need to do their homework and come up with a replacement too, otherwise it just looks like throwing a temper tantrum.

Did you think we should run it back with the same roster after losing to Florida?

I would not have signed Lindgren, and I would have attempted to obtain 2 top 4 LD if possible. I would have tweaked the roster like good teams do every year. I would have kept Goodrow and given Trouba one more year, partially for his wife’s sake. I’ll admit I was not a fan of Kakko, but I didn’t like the return. I guess I liked the JT trade because Phil was always gonna be hurt. All I am saying is give the core one more year, then if it didn’t work out we could make bigger changes in a kinder, gentler manner.

 

[Rongomania]

Dee-leete

 

[Rongomania]

Sure. It also proves they shouldn’t have been hemorrhaging draft picks and other assets to make this team a “contender”

You know, I don’t too much mind the past three years going for it. Am I pissed about the products we got? Yes, but going for it the past three years was the move. Retool just came one year early, this year. It’s a f*ckin’ bummer but I think if Captain Pizza doesn’t f*ck up the crucial trades necessary to make this a better team next year, we can be right back in it again next season.

 

[Machinehead]

Dee-leete

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I would not have signed Lindgren, and I would have attempted to obtain 2 top 4 LD if possible. I would have tweaked the roster like good teams do every year. I would have kept Goodrow and given Trouba one more year, partially for his wife’s sake. I’ll admit I was not a fan of Kakko, but I didn’t like the return. I guess I liked the JT trade because Phil was always gonna be hurt. All I am saying is give the core one more year, then if it didn’t work out we could make bigger changes in a kinder, gentler manner.

1000% this.

 

[McRanger92]

I would not have signed Lindgren, and I would have attempted to obtain 2 top 4 LD if possible. I would have tweaked the roster like good teams do every year. I would have kept Goodrow and given Trouba one more year, partially for his wife’s sake. I’ll admit I was not a fan of Kakko, but I didn’t like the return. I guess I liked the JT trade because Phil was always gonna be hurt. All I am saying is give the core one more year, then if it didn’t work out we could make bigger changes in a kinder, gentler manner.

I hear you but the bolded is very naive. Were the Lightning kind and gentle when they put a Blue jackets branded gun to McDonagh's head to force a trade to Nashville? Its the way the league goes. It's a business. And I dont really feel bad for Trouba or Goodrow or Kreider because this was always their year their trade protection got weaker and the Rangers would look to move them if we didnt win. the check is still clearing at the end of the month for them, no matter where their new rental property is.

The commitment to Lindgren for as long as they have been has really set us back. No arguments from me there.

 

[bernmeister]

I totally agree that we lack vision.

We just collect players that are available and when they end up inevitably not on the same page, we put them into a caste system. Somebody mentioned that yesterday.

At the same time, I fear that the vision is rapidly becoming "have a bunch of grinders."

Yes, but also when a visionary comes up with the least amount of outside the box, they got pilloried.
Me, I don't friggin care, I give as good as I get and then some.
I would prefer if it were not nec., but unfortunately too many here -- not you, MH, btw -- are close minded. Someone [fortunately I do not immediately find his post] took digs at my track record -- which is fine if it is fair/accurate, and then did not admit his comeuppance when accurately refuted.

I make mistakes. But I also get a lot more correct.
Go back 5+ yrs, I said trade Buch while his value is greatest maximizing his return. No, win now crowd said. We self rented. In the end we got bupkis b'c all that was left of his term was sliver of rfa rights.

I was against ALL the stupid rentals except Vatrano.
My call there also checks out.

I'm not gonna do several additional illustrations before or since, just skip ahead to most recently.

I said play Rempe HERE in NHL, NOW. He needs to get acclimated HERE.
No, no no can't do that said the closeminded.
We now see there has been signif progress and we would be even further/better off if despite growing pains costing us a bit here and there now, he would be even further along and an even greater contributor.

Similarly Brodz. Have been saying for some time give him mo mins higher in the lineup.
Too many closeminded till that. Only NOW, MAYBE, that is starting to change.

Remember, learn w/da bern
and remember the lyric from Billy Joel's The Stranger
"He is not always evil, and he is not always wrong"



if we do not think creatively, we will not see with fresh eyes/perspective
learn w/da bern
end of today's rant, I got real world shit to do

 

[Rongomania]

We’re all going to be ok. I’ll love hockey again, I know I will.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Where was the cap space to make these changes? Trouba was making 8 million dollars to torpedo every playoff series weve been in. Goodrow was a cap casualty. If you want to criticize Drury for not being ruthless enough with the albatrosses in the summer, that I hear. I think offloading Goodrow and trouba to bring in Guentzel should have been the play.

But i just cant blame management for what happens when the players step on the ice. They quit on us. They didnt need to. Their record was "good" when they got called out, but the underlying play was horrible. There had been too much evidence over the last 4 seasons to stand pat and trust the players to figure it out. We went through a stretch just like this in January of last year until Igor got hot and made us forget.

If you don’t pay Lindgren and Reilly Smith, you have enough for a couple decent LD. With Trouba’s salary gone, who did Drury get? Urho and Soucey? You’ve gotta be kidding me. They didn’t need the money until next year. Give the team one more year.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

He only has 59 points.

We talked about it with Lafreniere -- if guys are the type of player Bedard was expected to be, we usually see it by now. I would be concerned if I was a Hawks fan.

I’d rather have Celebrini at this point

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I hear you but the bolded is very naive. Were the Lightning kind and gentle when they put a Blue jackets branded gun to McDonagh's head to force a trade to Nashville? Its the way the league goes. It's a business. And I dont really feel bad for Trouba or Goodrow or Kreider because this was always their year their trade protection got weaker and the Rangers would look to move them if we didnt win. the check is still clearing at the end of the month for them, no matter where their new rental property is.

The commitment to Lindgren for as long as they have been has really set us back. No arguments from me there.

Goodrow was willing to work with the team to find a destination, instead Drury waived him so his buddy in San Jose would claim him. Dick move. The team brought Trouba's family into things. Another massive dick move. Kreider, I don't know, he's probably hurt. Maybe he's old. Maybe he hates Drury. I don't blame him.

Whether you want to agree with it or not, factoring in locker room mood, how you handle players, what the fallout will be, maintaining a healthy, productive culture is very much part of a GMs responsibility in this day and age. Sure, you could do it like Drury does with the fake tough guy attitude and this is what you get. A completely lost season and a team in turmoil with not very much to show for it asset wise. He got his chance and he blew it. And will leave the team in much worse shape than what he inherited. Thanks for those Igor and Miller contracts, Chris.

 

[Leonardo87]

He only has 59 points.

We talked about it with Lafreniere -- if guys are the type of player Bedard was expected to be, we usually see it by now. I would be concerned if I was a Hawks fan.

A lot of those points are on the PP. He is not good at ES. Skill is there but he is not a very good all around player.

 

[Machinehead]

I’d rather have Celebrini at this point

Oh yeah Celebrini is gonna be a star.

Bedard doesn't look like he made much of a jump so far.

Everyone in the NHL ranges from great to an alien in junior hockey and college. Every single one. It's a big jump and I don't care how good of a prospect you are.

 

[bernmeister]

I have a hard time getting behind the “players quit” narrative when half these guys appear to be following an entirely predictable aging curve and the other half, I’m not sure how good they were to begin with.

Is Kreider “quitting” or is he just going through the inevitable decline a 33 year old NHL player usually goes through and we are all inventing a narrative to make ourselves feel better, that the org isn’t on the downswing.

the constant need to assess the legit stats of the team is fine IF IF IF criticism is honest and fair and to fullest extent objective.

Kreider HAS underperformed this year, beginning like 2ish mos in.
But WHY?
Obv because this guy, who has a track record of working hard to stay in top shape, is too beat up due to cumulative wear and tear, which is in a very difficult area, the back.

I get it is fair to say why then is he playing at all, should be LTIR.
To answer accurately, requires having facts currently not known disclosed.

But what level of blame there is/is not for that needs to be viewed in context.
Also, appropriate for context Kreider last 5+ yrs has been our PP specialist getting beat up in front of the net
NOT ONE OTHER PLAYER WAS STUD ENUF TO STEP UP AND SHARE THIS BURDEN

and now he and we are paying for it.
Ok, dem is da breaks, but stop peeps -- and you know who you are -- with the hypocrisy of ignoring this fact just b'c you feel like kicking CK now while he is down.

fairness in context

for everyone
which is why I got nada for meeka who took the eff off w/o permission for 2 months
no valid reason
disgusting

bottom line:
some criticism in the proper measure -- accurate, correct, is fair/warranted
That is ob not equally on all payers the same.

Kudos to you, @HatTrick Swayze for wanting to speak the truth and get it right

 

[bernmeister]

A lot of those points are on the PP. He is not good at ES. Skill is there but he is not a very good all around player.

Correct.
And yet, he HAS produced ES w/some incarnation of the kid line.
What does that mean?
He needs to grow more but chemistry is important in his case

Reinbacher is a gamble, prudent, but still a gamble if, as I thought I heard, he's had work on both of his knees.

Something around LaF for Rein
let's hear some ideas.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Look I'm not gonna cry if they fire Chris Drury. But if he is the fall guy, Laviolette and these veterans need to go too. The GM cant make the players act like grown men. Only looking in the mirror can do that. But, as I said, Ive seen far more from drury in terms of trying to fix the issues than I have from the players or coach. That matters from where Im standing. And Im not necessarily upset that Drury has been tough on the players. As with all things, the people who want him gone need to do there homework and come up with a replacement too, otherwise it just looks like throwing a temper tantrum.

I agree they ALL need to go but he is responsible at this point for the product on the ice and the fact that this room is rotten and no coach seems to work. They all need to go - including him.

 

[McRanger92]

Goodrow was willing to work with the team to find a destination, instead Drury waived him so his buddy in San Jose would claim him. Dick move. The team brought Trouba's family into things. Another massive dick move. Kreider, I don't know, he's probably hurt. Maybe he's old. Maybe he hates Drury. I don't blame him.

Whether you want to agree with it or not, factoring in locker room mood, how you handle players, what the fallout will be, maintaining a healthy, productive culture is very much part of a GMs responsibility in this day and age. Sure, you could do it like Drury does with the fake tough guy attitude and this is what you get. A completely lost season and a team in turmoil with not very much to show for it asset wise. He got his chance and he blew it. And will leave the team in much worse shape than what he inherited. Thanks for those Igor and Miller contracts, Chris.

Did Drury bring Trouba's family into it? Or did Trouba do that himself? Drury never said a peep about Trouba's wife as far as I know. Larry Brooks reported Trouba was threatening to not report, or that he wouldnt be happy outside NY. It's a little bit disingenuous for you to tell me I'm making assumptions about the locker room when you are making similar assumptions about what went down around these trades. At the end of the day, nothing illegal was done. Feelings were hurt. Fine. It's a business.

 

[McRanger92]

I agree they ALL need to go but he is responsible at this point for the product on the ice and the fact that this room is rotten and no coach seems to work. They all need to go - including him.

Nothing should be off the table after this season. I just dont think the devil we dont know will be better. I dont think it's possible to be a well liked GM in NY. I think David Stearns is doing a pretty great job with the Mets at the moment though.

 

[MrAlmost]

I'll take Bedard and his 59 points.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He only has 59 points.

We talked about it with Lafreniere -- if guys are the type of player Bedard was expected to be, we usually see it by now. I would be concerned if I was a Hawks fan.

MacKinnon wasn’t MacKinnon until
He was 23 or 24.


Part of the issue is he’s walked into a pretty barren situation where as the other top guys have had way more support. You can’t do what the Rangers did but you can’t just throw him out there with what he’s had to work with. That’s a team that could really use current edition Panarin or someone like that.

He’ll be fine and if Chicago is worried I’d gladly take him off their hands.