Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[McRanger92]

No idea. Maybe this, and the timing, was worked out before the season even started. No clue. But yeah, the fact that he’s regressed and there’s even the appearance that he’s distracted is bad optics.

The issue I have isnt with Lafreniere alone, it's the pattern. I dont have a problem with players having interests outside of hockey, but when a knock on the team has been their inconsistent effort and postseason flameouts, I have a right as a fan to question why Jacob Trouba is spending all summer painting after the Devils bounced us in the first round. This team is a lot of yapping about cliches and not a lot of actions that actually show they are committed. Fox started a podcast sponsored by a bagel store last season. Mika has a multiple other business interests outside of hockey. Winning is the only thing that matters to you and I, but not to these players. It's frustrating, because winning cures all.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Honestly, this seems like something he had to spend all of 30 mins on. If that. His agent worked it out and Laf had to approve it. It’s not like he’s creating dishes, doing a bunch of commercials or making appearances for them, right? They basically gave him money to put his name on a menu item. No different than any other kind of endorsement or sponsorship IMO.

Was going to say the same thing. His people put it in front of him and he said yeah sure and that was the end of it. Like who cares?

There’s plenty of things to complain about regarding Laf, but this is just complaining to complain

 

[McRanger92]

Was going to say the same thing. His people put it in front of him and he said yeah sure and that was the end of it. Like who cares?

There’s plenty of things to complain about regarding Laf, but this is just complaining to complain

Not when it's been a pattern for these players for years. Country Club. People want it to change but recoil when you tell them where to start. many such cases.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Not when it's been a pattern for these players for years. Country Club. People want it to change but recoil when you tell them where to start. many such cases.

A pattern of players making money with endorsements? This has been a thing for decades in sports

What are you even saying lol

 

[NickyFotiu]

Honestly, this seems like something he had to spend all of 30 mins on. If that. His agent worked it out and Laf had to approve it. It’s not like he’s creating dishes, doing a bunch of commercials or making appearances for them, right? They basically gave him money to put his name on a menu item. No different than any other kind of endorsement or sponsorship IMO.

You mean Laf is not in the back making my salad??? What a rip-off!

 

[Mugless]

You mean Laf is not in the back making my salad??? What a rip-off!

I don't think you want Laf tossing your salad.

 

[McRanger92]

A pattern of players making money with endorsements? This has been a thing for decades in sports

What are you even saying lol

This team barely even practices on off days. They were at freaking Disneyland yesterday. How can you not see that this team has zero commitment to changing anything. And I'm sorry but the Captain committing himself to the art world after a disappointing first round exit to our archrival (a series in which he was horrible) is why he was the worst captain in franchise history captain. When your leaders are more bothered by being held accountable than the actual losses themselves, that trickles down. When they go out of their way to make money on the side when they arent doing well at their day job, I have an issue with that. Any employer would. The fact that this team doesnt is why we are perennially not good enough.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't think you want Laf tossing your salad.

LOL oh jeez I walked right in to that didn't I

 

[zlev]

Not when it's been a pattern for these players for years. Country Club. People want it to change but recoil when you tell them where to start. many such cases.

you will look for every excuse of why this team is bad other than "they're just not that good".

 

[Mac n Gs]

I think we all have our own individual narratives when it comes to what we want from the team, but I do think that pretty much everyone on here agrees that significant changes are needed in some shape or another. The way this season unfolded is why I was so adamantly against Drury hiring Laviolette in the first place, and it was so predictable after his latest stint in Washington. He had an aging core with veterans that tuned him out and didn't want to play his style of play. Why did Drury suddenly think that would be different here when we had the same exact issues with Gallant. MacLellan and Patrick then bring in a younger coach in Carberry, and he has that team turned around in a year; a big offseason of smart moves made by Patrick has them taking another step and they're on their way to a President's Trophy. Is there a bit of a 2023 Seattle vibe to them where every single thing is going right? Yeah, absolutely, but I think they've put enough good pieces in place that when they regress back to the mean a bit it won't be too far of a drop off.

For the Rangers, I don't really see how Drury turns this around, assuming he's still the one that gets the chance to do so. I still think there's organizational failures from top-to-bottom when it comes to analyzing how to play hockey in the modern era, and that really shouldn't be the case for one of the wealthiest organizations in the league. I said this almost two years ago now, but Drury really didn't do enough to replace the people from the Gorton era and reshape the front office. I honestly don't know where else he goes from here.

There's a few situations around the league where I wonder if we could get lucky, i.e., Ryan Smith wanting to move on from Bill Armstrong and co and bring in his own guys. If they let Armstrong/Tourigny go, I'd hire both in a heartbeat. The other intriguing idea was mentioned by Seravalli yesterday when discussing an NHL team David Carle. I'd be all for a situation where Drury hires Carle and works with him to build a team in his vision for how they want to play hockey. Denver has been unreal under him, and I love that he's under the Jim Montgomery coaching tree; Drury should've fired Laviolette and hired Montgomery the second Boston let him go.

I like the Woodcroft idea, but I also like the idea of hiring Carle and letting him stick for 5 years to actually build something here. They'll get good pieces moving away from some of the guys with term that are still here. Defer the 2025 pick unless it magically becomes top-4 and take the few steps back to regroup from 2026-28. They do have some good young pieces in the pipeline, but they're missing the dynamic skill up front and from the backend. Nothing is gonna change here unless they change the process. Drury already missed the boat once not doing this two years ago. He can't do it again. If he wont, he shouldn't get the chance to make the same mistakes.

 

[bernmeister]

Some back thing, he already had a tell all with Uncle Larry earlier this year. Not sure why they're running him out there still, he's half a hockey player at best.

w'o access to confidential med records, we can't say exactly for sure

but more than reasonable to speculate it is back related, and is being reaggravated by repeated returns to game duty.
There is likely also a cumulative effect contributing to this now b'c he was the only one stud enuf to get ALL the PP duty in front of the net, and all that wear and tear eventually adds up
piper gets paid

 

[MrAlmost]

Players should have no lives but hockey. No opinions, endorsements, hobbies, friends, family, loved ones, pets, parents, sisters, brothers, phones, tablets, tvs, transistor radios, and thoughts. Anything other than winning with teammates (BUT THOSE TEAMMATES BETTER NOT BE FRIENDS!), is a bad look. Country club. Soft. Beta. Low T. Receding hairline. Belly fat. Don't need it. Don't want it. Yell at someone. Hit someone.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Ok I'll bite.

What is he physically going through?

A very bad back injury.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Not when it's been a pattern for these players for years. Country Club. People want it to change but recoil when you tell them where to start. many such cases.

What does this have to do with “country club”
Player got an endorsement deal, did a quick 30 second commercial.
Took 1-2 off days.

Was probably done during the 4 nations break.


Show me how this impacts his actual play, otherwise you sound like an old man yelling at clouds. “In my day players had to take a second job and only played because they love the game”

 

[mrhockey193195]

I also figure Lav doesn’t want to be known as the guy that prevented Kreider from reaching some career milestones before Drury attempts to jettison Kreider off the team this summer, and let’s face it, there aren’t a lot of obvious alternatives knocking down the door.

You might be right, but I’d just chalk it up to Neanderthal thinking by an “old boys club” coach. If my player is capable of playing, he will play. Period.

The fact that Cuylle isn’t getting the PP or 6-on-5 chances instead of Kreids is ludicrous. He’s earned some of those looks, and Kreids - as much as I love him - is flat out ineffective in his current state.

 

[mrhockey193195]

The optics are bad. It couldn't wait until May?

Optics are bad only to those who don’t apply critical thinking to it. Just like all the backlash to Mika DJing or Trouba doing his art show. It’s a complete non issue, IMO.

 

[McRanger92]

What does this have to do with “country club”
Player got an endorsement deal, did a quick 30 second commercial.
Took 1-2 off days.

Was probably done during the 4 nations break.


Show me how this impacts his actual play, otherwise you sound like an old man yelling at clouds. “In my day players had to take a second job and only played because they love the game”

I'm 32. Sue me for being annoyed that multi-millionaires cant focus on their day job for a full season when a normal person cant afford to live.

 

[GAGLine]

A very bad back injury.

How do you know he has a very bad back injury? And if it's true, why the hell has he been playing most of the year?

 

[TheTakedown]

Both of these things are true. The fancy stats tell a story. The fact that this pairing has been avoided like the plague also tells a story. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But again if Miller is not on the first pair I do not see any reason to pay him, therefore I don’t see any reason to keep him

The stats look good, but the reason it has been avoided is the very same reason that people have been shitting on Miller for the entirety of the year -- the guys head is so far up his own ass, it's absolutely bonkers how bad he is under pressure, how poor his vision is, and how boneheaded his plays are at times

 

[TheTakedown]

I don’t know if you are staying up to watch the team tonight or tomorrow night, but when they come back home, I would ask you to monitor Key for one whole game. I did that 3 times over the last few weeks and I was amazed at some of the mind numbing plays he makes. This last game he only made 3 such plays, and he made 1 great play that only a handful in the league make. 90% are mental mistakes. I also believe that most of them are Lav related, and I agree he isn’t alone, but there is no doubt that he just does not process the game mentally from a defensive mind set.

Some of us think that his trade value around the league is greater than his actual production. If we could get another top 4 Dman, who does not have quite the upside that Key has, but is good, young, and consistent, perhaps we should pull the trigger. If not, then by all means keep him. Under another system his play should improve significantly, though in my opinion, you can’t win a SC with him because he is always going to be prone to those mental boo boos when the pressure is greatest.

Also if someone could tap into his offensive potential, that would be great. As we are all lamenting how next year we won’t be any better because of a lack of good FAs, getting someone to work with Key to improve his offensive game could be a great path to improve the team. Again, is he capable of doing it from a mental standpoint?

This. He's absolutely so raw and flawed... People that claim he's a first pair player are mistaken. He *has the tools* to be a first pair player, but his hockey IQ is so piss poor that it eliminates almost any chance of him being more than an averag 2nd pair dman. I watch Key very consistently during games and he's an absolute idiot with the puck.

 

[TheTakedown]

Start with the head coach. Jay Woodcroft. He has a very good resume. Woodcroft felt the Oilers couldn't win playing man to man after losing to Vegas which plays the zone under Bruce Cassidy in the 2023 playoffs. Woodcroft switched the system and the Oilers struggled to adapt which cost him his job. I believe Kris Knoblauch kept the zone defense system. Woodcroft will be better in his second head coaching job. I prefer the zone defense instead of the man to man defense.

Love this idea. No more retread coaches

 

[TheTakedown]

Rangers core are coach killers.

No coach is going to get these globetrotters to put their noses to the stone.

From what I can gather, based on how this season has gone and who makes the most noise, the guys that seem to be the issue with coaches wearing out too quickly in this organization happen to be most of the guys wearing a letters...

Zib, Kreider, Trouba, and Goodrow all come to mind... Through this merry-go-round of coaches into this season, there are three constants in that list:

Zib, Kreider, Trouba...

One of them is gone...

I suspect the other two will be gone. Someone brought up a good point about free agency being a weak class this year, especially since rantaanen is not an option anymore (and sucks)... Zib with 5 years WILL be attractive to some contending teams solely for the fact that you don't have to commit 8 years of cap space. Rangers can also choose to retain a small amount of salary ($1M or so) to help reduce the burden of the contract...

Zib at $7M for 5 years in an appropriate environment is a very valuable asset assuming the NMC doesn't get in the way.

 

[TheTakedown]

the problem with this is the same as the lindgren issue.. if kreider is on this team, he's going to be relied upon to play a bigger role than he can handle. He's gonna be on pp1. he's gonna be on the ice 6-5. He's gonna get double shifted late down 1. whether it's because of his rep and seniority, his cap hit, or because he's just a guy that coaches respect, if he's here he's gonna get deployed to the detriment of the team.

Panarin presents a different issue. The adopted narrative here is that his very presence on the team permits an ineffective style of play from other top9 pieces, specifically Lafreniere. That to me is not gospel, nor is it in theory an issue that couldn't be fixed with better leadership and coaching. It might be both. The damage might be done already. I don't know.

But other parts of your post make sense. the idea that Edstrom Carrick Rempe is the foundation of a 4th line is correct.

I think you need to give Zib another shot at C, behind Miller, after a summer of dedicated work. He can't be this done this quickly. Also, needing to find a top 6 C is a lot bigger of an ask than needing a top 9 W.

Panarin Miller Cuylle
Lafreniere Zibanejad Perreault
Othmann Trocheck Berard
Edstrom Carrick Rempe

I disagree with the Zib piece -- for 3 summers straight, it has taken longer and longer each year for Zib to "get going"... Either he truly is declining (in which case, don't expect anything different), or he really is done with this team (in which case, it's time to move him)...

 

[SA16]

From what I can gather, based on how this season has gone and who makes the most noise, the guys that seem to be the issue with coaches wearing out too quickly in this organization happen to be most of the guys wearing a letters...

Zib, Kreider, Trouba, and Goodrow all come to mind... Through this merry-go-round of coaches into this season, there are three constants in that list:

Zib, Kreider, Trouba...

One of them is gone...

I suspect the other two will be gone. Someone brought up a good point about free agency being a weak class this year, especially since rantaanen is not an option anymore (and sucks)... Zib with 5 years WILL be attractive to some contending teams solely for the fact that you don't have to commit 8 years of cap space. Rangers can also choose to retain a small amount of salary ($1M or so) to help reduce the burden of the contract...

Zib at $7M for 5 years in an appropriate environment is a very valuable asset assuming the NMC doesn't get in the way.

If those players were such an issue with the coaching staff then why has the coaching staff chosen to give them letters?

 

[TheTakedown]

He was pretty instrumental in building the defensive structure of the 2013-2014 team. It just all fell apart so quickly once AV started digging his claws in and the team made pretty much every wrong personnel decision.

This to a t... Torts built a good roster, AV took it to the next level for 2 season, but each season he started adding "his guys" which was an 8-year-old antiquated team building process that worked in f***ing 2008... by the time 2016 rolled around, AVs "guys" were actually just garbage. This was piled on top of the typical NYR "bargain bin free agency signings", of which none of them worked except for Benoit Pouliot for exactly one season.