Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[80shockeywasbuns]

Trade Trocheck for Rossi, get younger and more skilled. Would be a forward thinking move and I bet bill guerin would do it.

Does he have a NMC? I’m too lazy to look

 

[Machinehead]

You guys wanna see a weird timeline?



Jacob Trouba, Artemi Panarin, Adam Fox, and Kaapo Kakko are in this game.

Henrik Lundqvist, Marc Staal, and Brady Skjei are also in this game.

 

[EdJovanovski]

You guys wanna see a weird timeline?



Jacob Trouba, Artemi Panarin, Adam Fox, and Kaapo Kakko are in this game.

Henrik Lundqvist, Marc Staal, and Brady Skjei are also in this game.

That was a fun season.

 

[Siddi]

The only reason to trade Trocheck is if you think he’s on the cusp of a permanent decline. Otherwise you’re just creating an unnecessary extra massive TOI and multirole hole in the lineup for no good reason

So why do we want to trade Mika? He does everything Vinny does but better while also being the superior talent.

Only thing Vinny does better is maybe face offs.

And dont come at with the cap argument. A 70-80 point center with proven playoff performance who also is elite at PK and can play wing is a bargain for 8.5 with the cap rising.

 

[Alluckks]

Chris Kreider is chopped huzz

 

[mrhockey193195]

Surely Kreider has some agency in this, and can pull himself from the lineup? I imagine the PA would have a field day if he reported he was being pushed to play through serious injury

Answering that question takes this conversation beyond Kreider and the Rangers, and into hockey culture at large. All of these players think that playing hurt is the right thing to do, even if objectively they are hurting themselves and hurting the team by doing so. That's a hockey culture problem. And I agree that it's asinine.

 

[RangerBoy]

I can't imagine Tampa would go for that.

Panarin has the no movement clause and a $11,642,857 cap hit. He would probably play in Florida but both teams have major commitments. There is also the question of playing style. TB is less stringent than Florida. So many of the top teams in the league don't have the money or the need or their location is not ideal. There is also the playing style. It's hard to envision Panarin playing for the KIngs who have all of their forwards back checking and they all have their sticks in passing and shooting lanes. Maybe if LA loses again the first round, they rethink their strategy.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The three days he spent with Laraque didn't help. Maybe this offseason he works with John Scott.

He just needs more muscle

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Surely Kreider has some agency in this, and can pull himself from the lineup? I imagine the PA would have a field day if he reported he was being pushed to play through serious injury

Shouldn't matter, staff knows he's not contributing, idiotic not to sit him earlier in the year, even dumber now.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So why do we want to trade Mika? He does everything Vinny does but better while also being the superior talent.

Only thing Vinny does better is maybe face offs.

And dont come at with the cap argument. A 70-80 point center with proven playoff performance who also is elite at PK and can play wing is a bargain for 8.5 with the cap rising.

Inconsistency would be my reasoning, his one timer is almost non existent now and it looks like the decline has already started. I'm doubtful they are able to move him with his ntc so for me it's a moot point anyway. I hope he can have a good offseason and come back fresher next year.

 

[leetch99]

the problem with this is the same as the lindgren issue.. if kreider is on this team, he's going to be relied upon to play a bigger role than he can handle. He's gonna be on pp1. he's gonna be on the ice 6-5. He's gonna get double shifted late down 1. whether it's because of his rep and seniority, his cap hit, or because he's just a guy that coaches respect, if he's here he's gonna get deployed to the detriment of the team.

Panarin presents a different issue. The adopted narrative here is that his very presence on the team permits an ineffective style of play from other top9 pieces, specifically Lafreniere. That to me is not gospel, nor is it in theory an issue that couldn't be fixed with better leadership and coaching. It might be both. The damage might be done already. I don't know.

But other parts of your post make sense. the idea that Edstrom Carrick Rempe is the foundation of a 4th line is correct.

I think you need to give Zib another shot at C, behind Miller, after a summer of dedicated work. He can't be this done this quickly. Also, needing to find a top 6 C is a lot bigger of an ask than needing a top 9 W.

Panarin Miller Cuylle
Lafreniere Zibanejad Perreault
Othmann Trocheck Berard
Edstrom Carrick Rempe

That is not all that bad if they all can find some jump again under a new coach . It still lacks a bit of speed IMO in the top 6 . I would also entertain throughout the season any deals for Laf=Panarin-Zibs and Tro . If they change the D style of defending and they iron out the special teams and Igor is better ALL season....we will be a top 3 in the division club most likely . Again ...we need things to go right .

 

[leetch99]

What about Miller for Rossi

Make a run at a new goalie.... LOL...every hockey fan likely has already seen this one !

 

[jerseyjinx94]

I really don’t think people are being rational. Every single player has had a down year. Are we operating under the assumption that they all will continue to decline/play like this? A new coach, a new season, and I guarantee you some of these guys rebound.

I’m willing to move Panarin, I don’t think his play style is conducive to playoff success but that’s a lot of points as someone pointed out earlier. The offense will significantly decline. It’s probably better to hold him till the deadline and see what he wants in an extension and where the team is in the standings before making a decision.

Zibanejad has versatility and the effort has been better. I’m willing to give him more time. One more year and he’ll have four left. Let’s see how he does next year. 8.5 in a rising cap isn’t so bad.

Kreider is another one. His injury really killed his season but his attitude and effort level outside of the injury really disappointed me. A hard conversation needs to be had with him. Is he okay being a 3LW and special teams guy going forward? Is he going to commit to that role and provide max effort and be a leader or is he too upset that the team waived Goodrow and shopped him around? Gotta figure that out. He might need to be moved anyway just to make some adjustments for cap reasons, esp if they hold Panarin and Zibanejad

 

[leetch99]

Never ended up watching the game. How was the fight?

I think he was hurt when he was pulled up off the ice by Jeannot.....the pressure of being raised that fast....upper body injury . Moral of the story...Matt please quit the fighting until you add on some real muscle to do it .

 

[RangerBoy]

I really don’t think people are being rational. Every single player has had a down year. Are we operating under the assumption that they all will continue to decline/play like this? A new coach, a new season, and I guarantee you some of these guys rebound.

I’m willing to move Panarin, I don’t think his play style is conducive to playoff success but that’s a lot of points as someone pointed out earlier. The offense will significantly decline. It’s probably better to hold him till the deadline and see what he wants in an extension and where the team is in the standings before making a decision.

Zibanejad has versatility and the effort has been better. I’m willing to give him more time. One more year and he’ll have four left. Let’s see how he does next year. 8.5 in a rising cap isn’t so bad.

Kreider is another one. His injury really killed his season but his attitude and effort level outside of the injury really disappointed me. A hard conversation needs to be had with him. Is he okay being a 3LW and special teams guy going forward? Is he going to commit to that role and provide max effort and be a leader or is he too upset that the team waived Goodrow and shopped him around? Gotta figure that out. He might need to be moved anyway just to make some adjustments for cap reasons, esp if they hold Panarin and Zibanejad

Points in the regular season aren't transferred to the playoffs.

The status quo won't work here.

 

[MrAlmost]

So why do we want to trade Mika? He does everything Vinny does but better while also being the superior talent.

Only thing Vinny does better is maybe face offs.

And dont come at with the cap argument. A 70-80 point center with proven playoff performance who also is elite at PK and can play wing is a bargain for 8.5 with the cap rising.

Ok.

Trocheck this season at 5v5:
CF%= 51.3
CF%rel= +3.9
FF%= 50.3
FF%rel= +3
C/60= +3.2
OiGF= 2.9
OiGA= 2.8
Points= 32
Facepff%= 59.5
+/- (not 5v5 specific)= +2

Zibanejad this season at 5v5:
CF%= 47.7
CF%rel= -1.3
FF%= 48.1
FF%rel= -0.7
C/60= -5.6
OiGF= 2.2
OiGA= 3
Points= 22
Faceoff%= 52.8
+/- (not 5v5 specific)= -20

No one gives a f*** what points he scored 2 years ago. He isn't a 70 to 80 point player RIGHT NOW. There is no sure thing he ever will be again and especially not in New York where the well is clearly poisoned. I wouldn't be surprised if Z, Kreider and Panarin aren't in the opening night lineup for 25-26.

So the question that really needs to be asked, why do you constantly try to deflect criticism from Z to Trocheck? I mean, not that trocheck has been as good as last year, but he is objectively outperforming Z for less money at the most critical aspect of the game, 5v5.

And to be clear, the entire premise is faulty. Both need to be held accountable for the poor play and poor energy this season. But you are basically saying, my guy shot someone, but that guy stabbed someone multiple times. Isn't that worse? They are both bad.

 

[Siddi]

Ok.

Trocheck this season at 5v5:
CF%= 51.3
CF%rel= +3.9
FF%= 50.3
FF%rel= +3
C/60= +3.2
OiGF= 2.9
OiGA= 2.8
Points= 32
Facepff%= 59.5
+/- (not 5v5 specific)= +2

Zibanejad this season at 5v5:
CF%= 47.7
CF%rel= -1.3
FF%= 48.1
FF%rel= -0.7
C/60= -5.6
OiGF= 2.2
OiGA= 3
Points= 22
Faceoff%= 52.8
+/- (not 5v5 specific)= -20

No one gives a f*** what points he scored 2 years ago. He isn't a 70 to 80 point player RIGHT NOW. There is no sure thing he ever will be again and especially not in New York where the well is clearly poisoned. I wouldn't be surprised if Z, Kreider and Panarin aren't in the opening night lineup for 25-26.

So the question that really needs to be asked, why do you constantly try to deflect criticism from Z to Trocheck? I mean, not that trocheck has been as good as last year, but he is objectively outperforming Z for less money at the most critical aspect of the game, 5v5.

And to be clear, the entire premise is faulty. Both need to be held accountable for the poor play and poor energy this season. But you are basically saying, my guy shot someone, but that guy stabbed someone multiple times. Isn't that worse? They are both bad.

Why does holding Trocheck responsible for his play equate to deflecting from Zibanejad?

And yes, I rather keep the much better hockeyplayer on my team over some 3rd C scrub who lucked out playing with Panarin in his historic season last year.

 

[UnSandvich]

So why do we want to trade Mika? He does everything Vinny does but better while also being the superior talent.

Only thing Vinny does better is maybe face offs.

And dont come at with the cap argument. A 70-80 point center with proven playoff performance who also is elite at PK and can play wing is a bargain for 8.5 with the cap rising.

He's not but nice try tho

 

[duhmetreE]

this team needs another miracle.

Great young player forcing his way here ( Fox ) and winning another Lotto.

Winning Schaefer and Ogre Tkachuk wanting to play in New York ( for some reason, I have no clue why )

 

[McRanger92]

Does he have a NMC? I’m too lazy to look

10 team NTC. Goes to a 6 team through the end of the contract starting next year.

I like Trocheck but remember articles being written about how he was coveted around the league arlier this season. If you can get Rossi for him (or include him in a trade for a Peterka type) do it.

 

[MrAlmost]

Why does holding Trocheck responsible for his play equate to deflecting from Zibanejad?

And yes, I rather keep the much better hockeyplayer on my team over some 3rd C scrub who lucked out playing with Panarin in his historic season last year.

You are saying much better, but it's just not the case. I think Z is a good player, but I think it's over in NY for him and a few others.

You arent holding Trocheck responsible. You are flat out saying why do we hate Z when Trocheck is worse? Trocheck is OBJECTIVELY not worse. He is not a "3C scrub". He has been a great player in this league for years. Just like Z and it seems like Trocheck might still be able to get it done at 5v5 better then Z going forward. He plays with more pace, more physicality, goes to the net more and is just as good in his own end. He is also 1 of the 4 main PK players on what is the only good aspect of our team, the PK.

Trocheck has had a down year along with a down team. Z has been monumentaly bad and if it wasnt for a 10-15 game burst, he would have 35 points right now.

 

[GAGLine]

Panarin has the no movement clause and a $11,642,857 cap hit. He would probably play in Florida but both teams have major commitments. There is also the question of playing style. TB is less stringent than Florida. So many of the top teams in the league don't have the money or the need or their location is not ideal. There is also the playing style. It's hard to envision Panarin playing for the KIngs who have all of their forwards back checking and they all have their sticks in passing and shooting lanes. Maybe if LA loses again the first round, they rethink their strategy.

We may need to retain to make a deal work. Maybe there's even a deal where we a get a 3rd team to retain as well. I'm open to it if it means we can get a good return.

I assume Panarin won't want to go to any of the Canadian teams. I also assume he will want to go to a team with legitimate cup aspirations. Vegas could be a landing spot. They have 10 mil in cap space and no players of significance to re-sign other than Hague, and he won't get much of a bump.

Vegas already has 7 dmen under contract for next season and Hague is 6th on the team in TOI for dmen. Maybe we send them Soucy at half price along with Panarin and they send us Hague. We could also take back Roy to be our 3rd line center.

Panarin: 5,821,429
Soucy: 1,625,000

Roy: 3,000,000
Hague: RFA
Some combination of Holtz/Connelly/Picks

Another option might be Minnesota. They have 21 mil in cap space and Panarin might like the idea of playing with Kaprizov. Rossi could be part of the return, and they have some interesting prospects. Maybe we can get Buium.

All of this is probably moot, though. I don't really think Drury will trade him.

 

[McRanger92]

You are saying much better, but it's just not the case. I think Z is a good player, but I think it's over in NY for him and a few others.

You arent holding Trocheck responsible. You are flat out saying why do we hate Z when Trocheck is worse? Trocheck is OBJECTIVELY not worse. He is not a "3C scrub". He has been a great player in this league for years. Just like Z and it seems like Trocheck might still be able to get it done at 5v5 better then Z going forward. He plays with more pace, more physicality, goes to the net more and is just as good in his own end. He is also 1 of the 4 main PK players on what is the only good aspect of our team, the PK.

Trocheck has had a down year along with a down team. Z has been monumentaly bad and if it wasnt for a 10-15 game burst, he would have 35 points right now.

Trocheck has been excellent as a Ranger. 3 straight 20 goal 50 point season playing all situations. Mika largely has been one too. People let their personal biases get in the way of the fact that both guys are on the back nine of their career. If there is a trade out there that works for the Rangers and makes us young and more cap flexibile (ideally both), id trade both guys and not think twice. Same with Panarin and Kreider.

 

[RangerBoy]

We may need to retain to make a deal work. Maybe there's even a deal where we a get a 3rd team to retain as well. I'm open to it if it means we can get a good return.

I assume Panarin won't want to go to any of the Canadian teams. I also assume he will want to go to a team with legitimate cup aspirations. Vegas could be a landing spot. They have 10 mil in cap space and no players of significance to re-sign other than Hague, and he won't get much of a bump.

Vegas already has 7 dmen under contract for next season and Hague is 6th on the team in TOI for dmen. Maybe we send them Soucy at half price along with Panarin and they send us Hague. We could also take back Roy to be our 3rd line center.

Panarin: 5,821,429
Soucy: 1,625,000

Roy: 3,000,000
Hague: RFA
Some combination of Holtz/Connelly/Picks

Another option might be Minnesota. They have 21 mil in cap space and Panarin might like the idea of playing with Kaprizov. Rossi could be part of the return, and they have some interesting prospects. Maybe we can get Buium.

All of this is probably moot, though. I don't really think Drury will trade him.

Good luck to the next Rangers head coach trying to get Artemi to play the proper way. Laviolette never punishes these guys for refusing the play north and south. He keeps rolling out the same players late in the game. First unit PP. Kreider was a scratch but he is the only one to sit. Some of that could be health related.

 

[RangerBoy]

The issue with Trocheck is JT Miller. They are very close. Their wives are very close. Trocheck is here to stay with JT on the team. Trocheck is easier to move than Zibanejad. Limited NTC this summer.