Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[Unpredictable1]

I personally can't bare to wish for them to miss playoffs but it absolutely needs to happen for changes to happen

Unfortunately, I strongly feel the same.

 

[egelband]

It's not Lavy or Housely's fault. It's the organizations fault for having Mark Ciaccio develop bad habits and skills in the players for years. He may be gone but they still dealt with his teachings.

I initially disregarded this post as the ranting of one of our resident HF wizards.
Thank you @effen for highlighting this. Champagne comedy @SA16. Excellent work.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Times are tough but I’m going to reiterate that teams and players ebb and flow from year to year. Development isn’t linear. Writing guys off based on this season is reactionary and emotional and probably not a good way to run a team.

Guys like Zibanejad, Kreider, Panarin and Trocheck have each disappointed at times (or all) this season. Do we think all of them declined simultaneously? Is this a physical issue, a skill issue, a mental issue? There’s a natural transition for these guys to take on lesser roles as their careers continue. Maybe move one of them, and bring in a different look, but to think that they’re all going to have a bad year next year bc they had a bad year last year is just as unlikely as thinking they would all repeat what they did last season.

You have the formation of a pretty solid group.

Cuylle - Miller - Laf should be the first line.

Then you have Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, Trocheck taking 4 of the middle 6 spots. If you move one of them, you have 3 openings for young players, trades, or UFA. Edstrom Carrick Rempe is a great 4th line.

On D, you can probably add two LD. RD is pretty set. I don’t see any move needed there. Schneider is still developing and learning and improving. He has a good work ethic. Why are we trading him?

You have K’Andre. You need to figure out what type of D you need to add to him. Trading K’Andre is going to be another short sighted mistake. He’s still developing as well.

I don’t really see this as big of a challenge as most.

The biggest area of concern for me is the coach who needs to be fired and replaced with a younger mind who’s going to get these guys playing like they want to win. Who’s the next Spencer carberry or Kris Knoblauch? Go find him.

 

[RangerBoy]

Times are tough but I’m going to reiterate that teams and players ebb and flow from year to year. Development isn’t linear. Writing guys off based on this season is reactionary and emotional and probably not a good way to run a team.

Guys like Zibanejad, Kreider, Panarin and Trocheck have each disappointed at times (or all) this season. Do we think all of them declined simultaneously? Is this a physical issue, a skill issue, a mental issue? There’s a natural transition for these guys to take on lesser roles as their careers continue. Maybe move one of them, and bring in a different look, but to think that they’re all going to have a bad year next year bc they had a bad year last year is just as unlikely as thinking they would all repeat what they did last season.

You have the formation of a pretty solid group.

Cuylle - Miller - Laf should be the first line.

Then you have Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, Trocheck taking 4 of the middle 6 spots. If you move one of them, you have 3 openings for young players, trades, or UFA. Edstrom Carrick Rempe is a great 4th line.

On D, you can probably add two LD. RD is pretty set. I don’t see any move needed there. Schneider is still developing and learning and improving. He has a good work ethic. Why are we trading him?

You have K’Andre. You need to figure out what type of D you need to add to him. Trading K’Andre is going to be another short sighted mistake. He’s still developing as well.

I don’t really see this as big of a challenge as most.

The biggest area of concern for me is the coach who needs to be fired and replaced with a younger mind who’s going to get these guys playing like they want to win. Who’s the next Spencer carberry or Kris Knoblauch? Go find him.

Start with the head coach. Jay Woodcroft. He has a very good resume. Woodcroft felt the Oilers couldn't win playing man to man after losing to Vegas which plays the zone under Bruce Cassidy in the 2023 playoffs. Woodcroft switched the system and the Oilers struggled to adapt which cost him his job. I believe Kris Knoblauch kept the zone defense system. Woodcroft will be better in his second head coaching job. I prefer the zone defense instead of the man to man defense.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Zone defense, practice the breakout, 2 men in on the forecheck, give kids bigger roles, get to the net....its that easy.

 

[Savant]

It's stupid they don't atleast try this again

It is. But there has to be a reason…..right….?

 

[UnparalledPark]

Miller-Fox was one of the best D pairs in the league this year, we've been over this repeatedly here.

I don’t know if you are staying up to watch the team tonight or tomorrow night, but when they come back home, I would ask you to monitor Key for one whole game. I did that 3 times over the last few weeks and I was amazed at some of the mind numbing plays he makes. This last game he only made 3 such plays, and he made 1 great play that only a handful in the league make. 90% are mental mistakes. I also believe that most of them are Lav related, and I agree he isn’t alone, but there is no doubt that he just does not process the game mentally from a defensive mind set.

Some of us think that his trade value around the league is greater than his actual production. If we could get another top 4 Dman, who does not have quite the upside that Key has, but is good, young, and consistent, perhaps we should pull the trigger. If not, then by all means keep him. Under another system his play should improve significantly, though in my opinion, you can’t win a SC with him because he is always going to be prone to those mental boo boos when the pressure is greatest.

Also if someone could tap into his offensive potential, that would be great. As we are all lamenting how next year we won’t be any better because of a lack of good FAs, getting someone to work with Key to improve his offensive game could be a great path to improve the team. Again, is he capable of doing it from a mental standpoint?

 

[McRanger92]

thank you for what? a 32-41-9 record?

I know the doom and gloom and stuff is cool nowadays but they will definitely have a better record than that and be a playoff team.

 

[GAGLine]

I know the doom and gloom and stuff is cool nowadays but they will definitely have a better record than that and be a playoff team.

This team, as currently constituted, isn't very good. What moves are you expecting them to make that will "definitely" make them a playoff team?

 

[HonestGabe]

Unrealistic that it happens, but I'd be looking to offload all 3 of Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad this summer. Resigning Panarin would be a mistake. I am becoming less convinced that the team will be in a better position than it is now this time next season. It's more than likely a transition year for us. A year of Panarin with 2.5-3m retained would bring back a sizeable return. A 1st + young(ish) middle 6 F / middle pair D would be a good target.

For Zib/Kreider, I really don't know what the value is there but I know it's not much. Get whatever you can. I'd also try like hell to make Buffalo complete a Schneider + for Peterka deal. That seemed to be close at the deadline, let's circle back.

Skeleton roster;

Lafreniere - JT Miller - Peterka
Cuylle - XXXXX - Perreault
Othmann - Trocheck - XXXXX
Edstrom - Carrick - Rempe
Brodzinski

XXXX - Fox
Miller - Borgen
Vaak/Soucy - XXXX
Soucy/Vaak

You would have a ton of space and assets to fill those blanks over the next year or two.

 

[McRanger92]

This team, as currently constituted, isn't very good. What moves are you expecting them to make that will "definitely" make them a playoff team?

They really dont have to do all that much imo. The big things are finding a new coach another top 4 defenseman and getting rid of the veterans. Even if they arent good next year, is that the end of the world? Im all for taking a step back over the next 1-2 seasons if it means multiple steps forward beyond that. The key for me is putting out young players in a position to actually thrive. People like to define things like "rebuilds" and "retools", what do any of those words mean? We've got a leg up on 75% of the league because we have a #1 defenseman and a quality goalie. The rangers could be a playoff team still this season if they get hot lol. The Metro sucks so bad I dont even think people realize how bad it is.

 

[McRanger92]

Unrealistic that it happens, but I'd be looking to offload all 3 of Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad this summer. Resigning Panarin would be a mistake. I am becoming less convinced that the team will be in a better position than it is now this time next season. It's more than likely a transition year for us. A year of Panarin with 2.5-3m retained would bring back a sizeable return. A 1st + young(ish) middle 6 F / middle pair D would be a good target.

For Zib/Kreider, I really don't know what the value is there but I know it's not much. Get whatever you can. I'd also try like hell to make Buffalo complete a Schneider + for Peterka deal. That seemed to be close at the deadline, let's circle back.

Skeleton roster;

Lafreniere - JT Miller - Peterka
Cuylle - XXXXX - Perreault
Othmann - Trocheck - XXXXX
Edstrom - Carrick - Rempe
Brodzinski

XXXX - Fox
Miller - Borgen
Vaak/Soucy - XXXX
Soucy/Vaak

You would have a ton of space and assets to fill those blanks over the next year or two.

Ive said it before but if we somehow retain our pick in 2026, we should be looking to offersheet someone. Look how its worked out for St. Louis. Id rather give up future draft picks than young NHL players. Peterka is at the top of that list because he is a perfect fit for our top 6. Ryan McLeod and Mason McTavish are other guys Id be very interested in.

 

[HonestGabe]

Ive said it before but if we somehow retain our pick in 2026, we should be looking to offersheet someone. Look how its worked out for St. Louis. Id rather give up future draft picks than young NHL players. Peterka is at the top of that list because he is a perfect fit for our top 6. Ryan McLeod and Mason McTavish are other guys Id be very interested in.

The problem is those guys all are in situations where their organizations can easily match an offersheet, even at an inflated value.

Buffalo seems to want guys who "want to be there" and I think the only reason Peterka is available is because he isn't thrilled being there (shocking, I know). Not sure if the same applies for McLeod.

 

[bernmeister]

Start with the head coach. Jay Woodcroft. He has a very good resume. Woodcroft felt the Oilers couldn't win playing man to man after losing to Vegas which plays the zone under Bruce Cassidy in the 2023 playoffs. Woodcroft switched the system and the Oilers struggled to adapt which cost him his job. I believe Kris Knoblauch kept the zone defense system. Woodcroft will be better in his second head coaching job. I prefer the zone defense instead of the man to man defense.

I'll bite unless someone else suggests a better candidate

I am on record as saying we should have hired Kris based on familiarity w/our youth + good results, and would regret it if we didn't

Oilers got him and turned around a season in his rookie year as HC from worst-ish to strong cup contender.

Just one mo example, this front office does not listen to bern, and hindsight proves I wuz right and they were wrong

 

[GAGLine]

They really dont have to do all that much imo. The big things are finding a new coach another top 4 defenseman and getting rid of the veterans. Even if they arent good next year, is that the end of the world? Im all for taking a step back over the next 1-2 seasons if it means multiple steps forward beyond that. The key for me is putting out young players in a position to actually thrive. People like to define things like "rebuilds" and "retools", what do any of those words mean? We've got a leg up on 75% of the league because we have a #1 defenseman and a quality goalie. The rangers could be a playoff team still this season if they get hot lol. The Metro sucks so bad I dont even think people realize how bad it is.

No, not if we are doing the things that you suggest and allowing the young players to take over. I'm happy to take a step back if it improves our chances long-term.

I was just challenging your assertion that we will be a playoff team next season. I'm sure that's Drury's goal, but I don't trust him to do it. He'll probably move Kreider, bring in someone else on a long-term contract, and call it a summer.

 

[SA16]

No, not if we are doing the things that you suggest and allowing the young players to take over. I'm happy to take a step back if it improves our chances long-term.

I was just challenging your assertion that we will be a playoff team next season. I'm sure that's Drury's goal, but I don't trust him to do it. He'll probably move Kreider, bring in someone else on a long-term contract, and call it a summer.

If you're happy to take a step back for the long-term then why are you so concerned about extending Key because "who are we replacing him with?" Wouldn't that decision not need to be made right away if there is nobody good available right now? Maybe they're not replacing him with anyone good/expensive in 25-26 but someone better will be available in 26-27.

 

[eco's bones]

It's been a down year for Panarin but he's still our leading point producer by quite a bit. He will be going into his contract year. Our offense is not going to be better if and when he's gone. It will be worse. I think some people here should understand that. I'd be reluctant to move him without some idea of what it would take to bring him back on a shorter term for less money. I wouldn't figure on moving him over the off season. If we're moving him it's sometime next season.

It is time to move on from Zibanejad and Kreider though. That said the 5 years left on Mika's contract probably will make that difficult. One can hope that the lack of talent available in this year's free agency and the significant cap rise will have someone offering us something of a return for him though. If you're looking for a vet to plug a top 6 C/RW spot he could be attractive to someone.

I also don't see us moving K'Andre. Talent wise he's a better player than any other defender we have not named Fox. Get rid of the f***ing man on man shit. I think that should clean up a lot of defense miscues and make life a lot easier for Igor.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Drury shouldn't be allowed to make any more trades, signings, drafting... anything

I agree, but it’s too late to turn back now….

 

[McRanger92]

No, not if we are doing the things that you suggest and allowing the young players to take over. I'm happy to take a step back if it improves our chances long-term.

I was just challenging your assertion that we will be a playoff team next season. I'm sure that's Drury's goal, but I don't trust him to do it. He'll probably move Kreider, bring in someone else on a long-term contract, and call it a summer.

Kreider out. Sam Bennett in. I dont want that to be how it plays out, but that is the most Rangers way to operate.

I just dont think our young core sucks as much as they are made out to. Lot's of people talking emotionally about how screwed we are but you have to take this season with a grain of salt. There are obviously major internal/locker room issues with this roster. Being led by a core group that the fans and front office obviously dont believe in is a tough situation for any player to thrive. People downplay leadership, but without a leader, you have nothing in any field. Guys can say all they want after games, but no one on the Rangers plays like a leader on the ice. People will come at me for thinking that is important as they usually do, but every other good team has strong centralized leadership and we do it by committee with a bunch of shrinking violets.

 

[NYR Viper]

Ive said it before but if we somehow retain our pick in 2026, we should be looking to offersheet someone. Look how its worked out for St. Louis. Id rather give up future draft picks than young NHL players. Peterka is at the top of that list because he is a perfect fit for our top 6. Ryan McLeod and Mason McTavish are other guys Id be very interested in.

I think that with the cap increasing, I don't see as many teams that are going to be squeezed

 

[McRanger92]

It's been a down year for Panarin but he's still our leading point producer by quite a bit. He will be going into his contract year. Our offense is not going to be better if and when he's gone. It will be worse. I think some people here should understand that. I'd be reluctant to move him without some idea of what it would take to bring him back on a shorter term for less money. I wouldn't figure on moving him over the off season. If we're moving him it's sometime next season.

It is time to move on from Zibanejad and Kreider though. That said the 5 years left on Mika's contract probably will make that difficult. One can hope that the lack of talent available in this year's free agency and the significant cap rise will have someone offering us something of a return for him though. If you're looking for a vet to plug a top 6 C/RW spot he could be attractive to someone.

we should learn to be a better defensive team before we accommodate Panarin due to his offensive production. I dont dislike the guy personally and he was a good Ranger, but its over. We have to do something different even if it makes us worse, or more accurately imo, different.

 

[McRanger92]

I think that with the cap increasing, I don't see as many teams that are going to be squeezed

Make them match it then.

 

[SA16]

Make them match it then.

What is the point? All the Rangers are doing then is wasting their time to do someone else's work. Pretty much exactly what the Canadiens did with Aho.

Offer sheets for top players don't even work because they're always going to be matched without an enormous overpayment in dollars. Unless it's someone you're ready to give up four 1st round picks for you can't even give them a 6 or 7 year deal because the compensation AAV is based on 5 years so you'll be giving up 4 picks anyway. At that point you'd be better off just trying to trade for that players RFA rights

 

[majordomo]

I don’t know if you are staying up to watch the team tonight or tomorrow night, but when they come back home, I would ask you to monitor Key for one whole game. I did that 3 times over the last few weeks and I was amazed at some of the mind numbing plays he makes. This last game he only made 3 such plays, and he made 1 great play that only a handful in the league make. 90% are mental mistakes. I also believe that most of them are Lav related, and I agree he isn’t alone, but there is no doubt that he just does not process the game mentally from a defensive mind set.

Some of us think that his trade value around the league is greater than his actual production. If we could get another top 4 Dman, who does not have quite the upside that Key has, but is good, young, and consistent, perhaps we should pull the trigger. If not, then by all means keep him. Under another system his play should improve significantly, though in my opinion, you can’t win a SC with him because he is always going to be prone to those mental boo boos when the pressure is greatest.

Also if someone could tap into his offensive potential, that would be great. As we are all lamenting how next year we won’t be any better because of a lack of good FAs, getting someone to work with Key to improve his offensive game could be a great path to improve the team. Again, is he capable of doing it from a mental standpoint?

And this has not been a recent event...he's been having these "brain farts" for at least 2-3 seasons. Unfortunately, his mental mistakes almost always end up in the net.

 

[McRanger92]

#BringHimHome