Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[NYR Viper]

I think I'd rather have KAM in the $5-6 range long-term than Chychrun at $9, and I'm not a big KAM guy.

I still think KAM @ $5-5.5m long term is going to be a good contract. He has bumps but his high end is very good.

 

[McRanger92]

Personally, I don't know how you can trade for a 32 year old center and say "this is a move for the future." For next year, maybe, but we're going to be running back largely the same team next year, most likely with Kreider out and some $5-6mil player in. Two seasons from now the team will probably have a chance to remake the roster pretty significantly with Panarin's money coming off the books and the increased cap, and at that point JT is already going to be turning 34. Kreider turned 34 this year and everyone can't wait to get rid of him.

Couldnt care less about age, I care about style of play. If Kreider played with a fraction of the physicality or emotion JT has played with in his career, we never wouldve had to make the trade in the first place, and Kreider wouldnt be on his way out.

The team is going to be much younger next year, especially in the top 6, provided they are able to move one or two of the vets. It was a move for the future because Drury obviously wanted a PPG, lead from the front type to help the young core grow. I appreciate the Kreider, Panarin, Mika group for their overall contributions to the franchise, but they are all passive, perimeter players at this point. To simplify it further, our leaders coming into the season play like cowards and p***yes and JT and Trocheck dont. Im really not letting results from the team playing out the string in a lost season distract from the fact that it was necessary move to show the locker room that change is coming.

 

[GAGLine]

Sure but that means taking a step back or at the very least not a serious contender which I doubt the GM is willing to do. You aren’t replacing Panarin with who’s available. The defense is a trainwreck, and no it’s not the man-on-man, it’s the fact that you have 2 defenseman who are capable of playing on the first or second pair, and then a bunch of bottom pairing or 7th defenseman.

I believe Drury will try to squeeze every ounce of juice he has out of Panarin and he really has no other choice since he’s going to try to compete next season.

If we are trading Panarin, that may change the calculus as far as who is available.

I wouldnt call Mika a pumpkin anymore. He has proven that he can right the ship and was already playing good hockey before JT arrived.

I know you wouldn't call him that, but after his bump in production after the JTM trade, he has fallen off again. He has 49 points in 71 games, refuses to go to the dirty areas, and avoids contact. That's not nearly good enough for 8.5 mil.

If he goes back to being a point per game player next year, I'll be the first to cheer him on. Right now, he's not that.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

This romanticizing of JT Miller is something else. I don't care about the trade because you knew at some point Chytil was going to get injured again and the team was/is dreadfully thin at center. It's a whatever move and will eventually end with him getting bought after the team gets tired of his bullshit.

 

[kovazub94]

Did you read anything I wrote?

Nobody is discounting leadership, but the leadership should demonstrate a tangible difference in how the team plays. That's literally what I posted.

JT Miller is a repeat of the same bad habits we already have. If he is seen as a leader, he's leading us in the wrong direction.

People talk about Zibanejad playing better and improving his habits. Ok, but JT Miller hasn't!! Miller is playing the same soft hockey we ripped Zibanejad for. So like, while I'm not saying that leadership doesn't exist, I find it hard to believe that JT told Zibanejad "hey you better play harder while I continue to aimlessly dump the puck in and play with my dick."

A ton of people are remarking about JT Miller's leadership, so I don't know what you're talking about there, and I have no idea what he says or does because I'm not in the room. All I know is he plays the same grabass, perimeter, stat-padding style our top forwards already played.

If he played a different brand of hockey, and everyone else was still a moron, then sure, it's early yet. He's not doing that. He's feeding right into it. That's the player he always was when he was here. Then he went to a team where he 1) finally started putting up points and 2) couldn't get along with anyone, and we just decided that's leadership somehow.

Have you ever played a competitive sport before? Surely you understand leading by example.

In what way you think JTM is playing soft hockey?
Let's start with that he is a skilled top line play but I do see him going to the net, working boards etc. Have my eyes been lying to me?

P.S. Separate angle and not really directed at you but what folks were thinking about Drury being able to "convert" Chytil trade into? A damaged asset, B- level prospect and a 1st is definitely taking advantage of Vancouver situation.

 

[kovazub94]

JT Miller isn't even paid to be a 1C. He makes $8m per season. Look around at the top end 1C's around the league and compare his contract to theirs.


Mackinnon - $12.6m
Seguin - $9.5m
Benn - $9.5m
Hintz - $8.45m
Suzuki - $7.875m
Matthews - $13.25m
Tavares - $11m
McDavid - $12.5m
Draisatl - $8.5m this season --> $14m next season
Hughes - $8m
Hischier - $7.25m
Barkov - $10m
Aho - $9.75m
Jarvis - $7.42m
Kopitar - $7m
Point - $9.5m
Eichel - $10m
Hertl - $8.1375m
Scheifele - $8.5m
Larkin - $8.7m
Petersson - $11.6m
Crosby - $8.7m
Malkin - $6.1m
Stamkos - $8m (mainly a winger I believe)
Forsberg - $8.5m (mainly a winger I believe)


JT Miller is pretty much on par with the lower half of this group which SHOULD MAKE HIM A 2C. That should be his role. With Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad just loafing around, it's thrusting him higher in the lineup than should be necessary.

this same exact argument should be made about Trochek who is paid, really, like a 3C. Especially with the cap increasing.

Having JTM, Zibanejad and Trocheck share 50+ minutes at C is a benefit

 

[Takeahnase]

I still am baffled that people are so confident the team will be better next season.

Could it happen? It could. They should have great goaltending (for at least a large chunk of the year) which helps. It also easily could not happen. Within the organization I see far more downside than upside. This season sure felt like a “wheels falling off” type of season.

I am not necessarily confident but I think people underestimate how quickly things can turn for a franchise even in a salary cap league. The Caps last year looked like we would be giving them swirlies in the bathroom toilet for the next 5 years yet we’re the ones being stuffed in lockers this year.

They made some shrewd moves and had some young players like Protas take some big steps.

And if you told me that your crystal ball said that next year PLD will sulk and they go back to being goobers I wouldn’t be shocked either.

 

[Machinehead]

In what way you think JTM is playing soft hockey?
Let's start with that he is a skilled top line play but I do see him going to the net, working boards etc. Have my eyes been lying to me?

P.S. Separate angle and not really directed at you but what folks were thinking about Drury being able to "convert" Chytil trade into? A damaged asset, B- level prospect and a 1st is definitely taking advantage of Vancouver situation.

He's not afraid of contact, I'll certainly give him that. The thing is, I don't think this team's lack of "grit" or just stiff hockey has anything to do with contact. We have Cuylle, Trocheck, Rempe, Carrick, Lafreniere. Hell, Kreider plays through contact. Plenty of guys on the roster take bumps and are willing to give them out.

The problem with this team is that they're dickless offensively. They won't try anything. If they don't have time and space, they dump it in and run away. Even if they do have time and space, they stop dead in their tracks to look for a cross-ice pass. Nobody works hard to create space, nobody takes risks to force the defense to react, nobody does anything with pace, and God forbid you keep your feet moving.

You can do this with North-South play, obviously, but hell, you can do it with East-West play. I would love it if Panarin or Zibanejad made aggressive cuts and tried to beat defenders to the middle by moving their f***ing feet, but they're more interested in stopping dead to stare at their teammates, especially Panarin. It's soft offense.

JT is certainly willing to hit and plays with a bit of attitude, but like I said, I don't think we lack that. On offense, he's Dump-Ins the Musical. He also plays right into stopping dead, letting the defense get set, and then just playing catch because the defense is set and you didn't do anything to move them. He especially does this one on the powerplay.

This team fostered an identity around when the 2022 run started of being pretty deadly with time and space, but never bothered to create it if teams just played tight in front of us. Now that the team is older and slowing down a bit, they have time and space a lot less and it's just a team with piss poor offensive habits.

JT Miller always had these bad offensive habits and we saw it when he was here. We have a clear problem and we're targeting players with the same problem.

As far as the trade goes, the value was good, but I don't think JT, at his age, fit a team that frankly is headed for a rebuild imo.

 

[kovazub94]

.... If you're still at your top game at 35, you're doing really well in this league. Panarin isn't QUITE as shifty as he was even 2 years ago. Miller really was a move 'for the next 3 years' which is one of the reasons I'm so irate at the idea that Soucy-Fox, Miller-Borgen, Vaak-Schneider is a cup winning back 6 for this group. You mean to tell me that's what you're going to war with? Might as well just fast foward the next two years and skip to the next rebuild.

And yeah, that's the big 1B left defenseman piece off the table now with Chych

I'm with you re. bolded. I've seen a few posts already that said that it's fine to keep the existing D core group going forward and I strongly disagree (even if it's just for another year).

I think the broader point re. Chychrun is that he never was really an option as the Rangers wouldn't be willing to pay $9m or more for his services.

 

[TGWL]

Some fans had Chychrun penciled in for 7-7.5 here. (Part of our easy off-season fix)
That was never happening.

 

[RangerBoy]

Some fans had Chychrun penciled in for 7-7.5 here. (Part of our easy off-season fix)
That was never happening.

$9M AAV. That's insane.

 

[RangerBoy]

This UFA class is going to suck, but it probably won’t matter since the Rangers won’t have enough cap space to do anything that involves significant restructuring.

This would have been the perfect time to take a step back and recoup as many draft picks and prospects as possible. Instead the Rangers will move forward with an incomplete team and most likely throw picks down the drain for no reason whatsoever.

More excuse making for Adam Fox.

 

[RangerBoy]

I'll judge JT's play next year and the years going forward. I think he's been solid for a team that has largely quit in a lost season. The team needs defensive help and a long offseason.

The Rangers should put the C on Miller's sweater.

 

[kovazub94]

It’s perhaps Laviolette’s most baffling galaxy brain this season.

He’s running with it now but there’s no reason why Zibanejad should have been moved to wing at any point.

It was a reasonable move early on to "reform" Zibanejad shooting woes into actual points but once this started to happen over first 6-10 games - Laviolette should've reverted to 3C approach instead of continuing to expose the bottom 2 lines at center position.

 

[TGWL]

$9M AAV. That's insane.

A bit more than I would have spent for sure. But he's 26 years old, and we're soon entering a point where you can get away with 2 9M defenders and still have money for a roster, especially when you're not paying 11.5 for a goalie.

 

[UnSandvich]

Ngl I also think stories of Zibanejad’s return are being *greatly* exaggerated. Especially by certain folks who refused to acknowledge how godawful he was earlier this season. Every year he has a shooting bender around this time.

There’s 69 total C’s with 890 mins played 5v5 this season. Zibanejad is T-61st in 5v5 points, 58th in G/60 and 49th in A/60, and that’s all with his recent sh% bump. This is a player who needs to be off the team ASAP if they have any intention of being good in the near future

 

[MrAlmost]

Well chychrun is signed and I suspect Gavrikov and Ekblad will follow. Use panarin, kreider, Schneider and Jones or soucy to get a number 2 left or right d along with a good partner for that person.

Miller-Fox
TBD-TBD
Jones/Soucy-Borgen
Vaak

Lot of question marks. If those 2 dont resign, try and get the one that is the opposite hand of the guy you bring in.

Or trade all those guys out for futures and sign Gavrikov and Ekblad. Bam. Second pair killing it. Haha

 

[majordomo]

$9M AAV. That's insane.

Welcome to the new NHL. I can't wait to see contracts once the cap jumps. (Gotta stock up on popcorn.)

 

[McRanger92]

He's not afraid of contact, I'll certainly give him that. The thing is, I don't think this team's lack of "grit" or just stiff hockey has anything to do with contact. We have Cuylle, Trocheck, Rempe, Carrick, Lafreniere. Hell, Kreider plays through contact. Plenty of guys on the roster take bumps and are willing to give them out.

The problem with this team is that they're dickless offensively. They won't try anything. If they don't have time and space, they dump it in and run away. Even if they do have time and space, they stop dead in their tracks to look for a cross-ice pass. Nobody works hard to create space, nobody takes risks to force the defense to react, nobody does anything with pace, and God forbid you keep your feet moving.

You can do this with North-South play, obviously, but hell, you can do it with East-West play. I would love it if Panarin or Zibanejad made aggressive cuts and tried to beat defenders to the middle by moving their f***ing feet, but they're more interested in stopping dead to stare at their teammates, especially Panarin. It's soft offense.

JT is certainly willing to hit and plays with a bit of attitude, but like I said, I don't think we lack that. On offense, he's Dump-Ins the Musical. He also plays right into stopping dead, letting the defense get set, and then just playing catch because the defense is set and you didn't do anything to move them. He especially does this one on the powerplay.

This team fostered an identity around when the 2022 run started of being pretty deadly with time and space, but never bothered to create it if teams just played tight in front of us. Now that the team is older and slowing down a bit, they have time and space a lot less and it's just a team with piss poor offensive habits.

JT Miller always had these bad offensive habits and we saw it when he was here. We have a clear problem and we're targeting players with the same problem.

As far as the trade goes, the value was good, but I don't think JT, at his age, fit a team that frankly is headed for a rebuild imo.

They are not rebuilding and dont need a rebuild. Rebuilds don't work. It's just a crutch to give up and not try. The Rangers literally just paid Igor + lafreniere and traded for 5 years of JT Miller's contract. Fox is signed long-term. They are about to do the same with Cuylle and K'Andre. They have plenty of youth, it doesnt bother me that HFBoards thinks they "lack talent" in the prospect pool considering 5 years ago the prevailing wisdom was the opposite and we know how that turned out.

The MO should be how do we put our young talent in positions to maximize their ability. Im so sick of hearing "the rebuild" didnt work because we lacked patience, but also lets trade lafreniere and schneider who were drafted in the thick of it and havent even turned 24 yet. THAT is short-sighted. Our team sucks offensively because our 3 highest paid forwards are essentially zeros 5v5 all season. But sure lets talk about the guy who has been back for 20 minutes is part of the problem and the young guys who are given no added responsibility by the coaching staff need to be the ones traded. It's just tiresome. I promise if the Rangers just play their young players and reward straight line play with more minutes, we will be a much better team and it will be obvious quickly. Stop overcomplicating the plan.

 

[TGWL]

Welcome to the new NHL. I can't wait to see contracts once the cap jumps. (Gotta stock up on popcorn.)

It's no different than it is now. Players in the 7m range jump to 9. Players in the 3.5 range jump to 4.5-5. Players in the 1.2m range jump to 2. Players will demand more money and GM's will hand it out. GM's won't just get more cap space.

 

[McRanger92]

The Rangers should put the C on Miller's sweater.

They probably will. Usually that's the kiss of death though.

 

[haohmaru]

I still think KAM @ $5-5.5m long term is going to be a good contract. He has bumps but his high end is very good.

KAM's cap hit is starting with a 6+ not a 5 - particularly if there's any term to it.

 

[haohmaru]

$9M AAV. That's insane.

Would you rather have Nurse @ 9.25M or Chycrun at 9M?

Thought so.

 

[haohmaru]

If we are trading Panarin, that may change the calculus as far as who is available.


I know you wouldn't call him that, but after his bump in production after the JTM trade, he has fallen off again. He has 49 points in 71 games, refuses to go to the dirty areas, and avoids contact. That's not nearly good enough for 8.5 mil.

If he goes back to being a point per game player next year, I'll be the first to cheer him on. Right now, he's not that.

I'm not going to go into forensic research on it but I'd bet that Mika's hits have jumped since Miller joined the team.

 

[McRanger92]

Would you rather have Nurse @ 9.25M or Chycrun at 9M?

Thought so.

No and No. Chychrun is K'Andre with a better shot. K'Andre is probably better defensively in some areas.