Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

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Confidence and perhaps a higher quality of chances? Do you think it’s just luck and coincidence?

It is.

Cuylle-Zibanejad-Smith drove the f*** out of quality chances.

Cuylle in particular has basically been a driver of offense. People’s opinions on him change based on whether pucks are going in for him and his line or not. He’s virtually been the same guy all year.
 
I disagree with a lot of this. Miller goes to the dirty areas far more regularly than anyone else in the top six, unless we are settled on Cuylle being top six. To me he’s on the cusp. One of the few guys that shows pushback when the most of rest of the team seems content being abused. Does he play “the right way” 100% of the time? No. But very few players in this league do.
He’s a legit 1C that puts up points (basically a ppg for this team) and plays with an edge. No he’s NOT prime Messier. Who is? But he’s a player this team needed, and needs more of IMO. And at the price point the trade was more than a good one for us. Plus he’s paid less than Zibs and the cap is only going up. Of all the problems with this team, Miller is WAY down the list.

Couldnt have said it much better. Not to mention a player like him has been a glaring team need for the last 3 seasons. I wouldve liked our chances against Tampa Bay and Florida and New jersey a lot better these last few runs if we had JT going up against Point, barkov, Hughes instead of Meeka.
 
JT Miller isn't even paid to be a 1C. He makes $8m per season. Look around at the top end 1C's around the league and compare his contract to theirs.


Mackinnon - $12.6m
Seguin - $9.5m
Benn - $9.5m
Hintz - $8.45m
Suzuki - $7.875m
Matthews - $13.25m
Tavares - $11m
McDavid - $12.5m
Draisatl - $8.5m this season --> $14m next season
Hughes - $8m
Hischier - $7.25m
Barkov - $10m
Aho - $9.75m
Jarvis - $7.42m
Kopitar - $7m
Point - $9.5m
Eichel - $10m
Hertl - $8.1375m
Scheifele - $8.5m
Larkin - $8.7m
Petersson - $11.6m
Crosby - $8.7m
Malkin - $6.1m
Stamkos - $8m (mainly a winger I believe)
Forsberg - $8.5m (mainly a winger I believe)


JT Miller is pretty much on par with the lower half of this group which SHOULD MAKE HIM A 2C. That should be his role. With Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad just loafing around, it's thrusting him higher in the lineup than should be necessary.

this same exact argument should be made about Trochek who is paid, really, like a 3C. Especially with the cap increasing.
 
It is.

Cuylle-Zibanejad-Smith drove the f*** out of quality chances.

Cuylle in particular has basically been a driver of offense. People’s opinions on him change based on whether pucks are going in for him and his line or not. He’s virtually been the same guy all year.
So you're saying we could have just waited for his shooting percentage to normalize instead of moving Zibanejad to wing with absolutely no plan to replace him?

I'd feel better about the Miller trade if it actually made us deep at center.
 
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I'm just going to post some factual information and people can do what they want with it:

Before the Miller trade, Zibanejad was shooting 8.1% and the Rangers were shooting 9.4% with him on the ice.

After the Miller trade, Zibanejad is shooting 12.5% and the Rangers are shooting 12.8% with him on the ice.
Thanks for "the facts".
 
JT Miller isn't even paid to be a 1C. He makes $8m per season. Look around at the top end 1C's around the league and compare his contract to theirs.


Mackinnon - $12.6m
Seguin - $9.5m
Benn - $9.5m
Hintz - $8.45m
Suzuki - $7.875m
Matthews - $13.25m
Tavares - $11m
McDavid - $12.5m
Draisatl - $8.5m this season --> $14m next season
Hughes - $8m
Hischier - $7.25m
Barkov - $10m
Aho - $9.75m
Jarvis - $7.42m
Kopitar - $7m
Point - $9.5m
Eichel - $10m
Hertl - $8.1375m
Scheifele - $8.5m
Larkin - $8.7m
Petersson - $11.6m
Crosby - $8.7m
Malkin - $6.1m
Stamkos - $8m (mainly a winger I believe)
Forsberg - $8.5m (mainly a winger I believe)


JT Miller is pretty much on par with the lower half of this group which SHOULD MAKE HIM A 2C. That should be his role. With Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad just loafing around, it's thrusting him higher in the lineup than should be necessary.

this same exact argument should be made about Trochek who is paid, really, like a 3C. Especially with the cap increasing.
This is a good point. If JTM can maintain his level of play for the remainder of his contract, he's an excellent value as the cap continues to rise.

He just turned 32, though. Lots of players drop off around that age. Mika is a month younger and has already turned into a pumpkin.
 
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This is a good point. If JTM can maintain his level of play for the remainder of his contract, he's an excellent value as the cap continues to rise.

He just turned 32, though. Lots of players drop off around that age. Mika is a month younger and has already turned into a pumpkin.

Really depends on the player yep. Richards went from 1A to 1B to 3C in about 4 calendar years. Concussions didn't help though.

If you're still at your top game at 35, you're doing really well in this league. Panarin isn't QUITE as shifty as he was even 2 years ago. Miller really was a move 'for the next 3 years' which is one of the reasons I'm so irate at the idea that Soucy-Fox, Miller-Borgen, Vaak-Schneider is a cup winning back 6 for this group. You mean to tell me that's what you're going to war with? Might as well just fast foward the next two years and skip to the next rebuild.

And yeah, that's the big 1B left defenseman piece off the table now with Chych
 

This UFA class is going to suck, but it probably won’t matter since the Rangers won’t have enough cap space to do anything that involves significant restructuring.

This would have been the perfect time to take a step back and recoup as many draft picks and prospects as possible. Instead the Rangers will move forward with an incomplete team and most likely throw picks down the drain for no reason whatsoever.
 
This UFA class is going to suck, but it probably won’t matter since the Rangers won’t have enough cap space to do anything that involves significant restructuring,
We'll need to move at least one of Panarin, Kreider or Zib. Zib is a long shot, though. Honestly, I'd be happy to move all 3, use the return/cap space to fill holes, and let the younger guys lead the way.
 
I still am baffled that people are so confident the team will be better next season.

Could it happen? It could. They should have great goaltending (for at least a large chunk of the year) which helps. It also easily could not happen. Within the organization I see far more downside than upside. This season sure felt like a “wheels falling off” type of season.
 
We'll need to move at least one of Panarin, Kreider or Zib. Zib is a long shot, though. Honestly, I'd be happy to move all 3, use the return/cap space to fill holes, and let the younger guys lead the way.
Sure but that means taking a step back or at the very least not a serious contender which I doubt the GM is willing to do. You aren’t replacing Panarin with who’s available. The defense is a trainwreck, and no it’s not the man-on-man, it’s the fact that you have 2 defenseman who are capable of playing on the first or second pair, and then a bunch of bottom pairing or 7th defenseman.

I believe Drury will try to squeeze every ounce of juice he has out of Panarin and he really has no other choice since he’s going to try to compete next season.
 
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I still am baffled that people are so confident the team will be better next season.

Could it happen? It could. They should have great goaltending (for at least a large chunk of the year) which helps. It also easily could not happen. Within the organization I see far more downside than upside. This season sure felt like a “wheels falling off” type of season.
Nah dude, teams whose top forwards are all 32+ get better as those players age, it’s really simple lol.
 
I disagree with a lot of this. Miller goes to the dirty areas far more regularly than anyone else in the top six, unless we are settled on Cuylle being top six. To me he’s on the cusp. One of the few guys that shows pushback when the most of rest of the team seems content being abused. Does he play “the right way” 100% of the time? No. But very few players in this league do.
He’s a legit 1C that puts up points (basically a ppg for this team) and plays with an edge. No he’s NOT prime Messier. Who is? But he’s a player this team needed, and needs more of IMO. And at the price point the trade was more than a good one for us. Plus he’s paid less than Zibs and the cap is only going up. Of all the problems with this team, Miller is WAY down the list.
Anyone who was expecting JTM to be prime 87-88 Messier or even 95-96 Messier is out to lunch. Talk about short sighted, but this deal wasn't just about trying to make the playoffs this season. This was a move with next season & beyond on the radar. I don't love his age or adding another 30+ center to the mix, but the trade was a win simply by looking at what happened to Fil. There's was a 99.99% chance he was going to absorb another shot to the head & it took less than 6 weeks. With the dearth of talent on this roster, we shouldn't be complaining about PPG players when they're gifted to us.

The bigger issues this team has are the lack of talent, the lack of defensive structure & a dinosaur coach who has already exceeded his short shelf life. Lest we forget the rotten core who decided they were only going to pick & choose when they were going to give any effort this season. How many times did they quit on the season so far, 3? 4?
 
So you're saying we could have just waited for his shooting percentage to normalize instead of moving Zibanejad to wing with absolutely no plan to replace him?

I'd feel better about the Miller trade if it actually made us deep at center.

It’s perhaps Laviolette’s most baffling galaxy brain this season.

He’s running with it now but there’s no reason why Zibanejad should have been moved to wing at any point.
 
This is why I keep harping on hopefully that pick (that we shouldn't have traded at all!) bouncing this year.

The team will be older next year and it's a dire free agent class. The pieces just aren't out there to help us this summer.

Next year should just be a rebuild year. Trade whatever you can to recoup assets. Then maybe going into 26-27, you see what you have with the guys you developed, a stronger UFA class, and a lot more cap space.

IIRC we have an option on that pick either way, and if Drury had any foresight at all, he would bounce it this year.

Shipping out some of the checked out vets and just getting by on good vibes and the heart of the cards isn't enough. There isn't any skill in the next generation of Rangers and the best case scenario right now is that they turn into the 2011 team, with the right foundation in place in terms of how they want to play, but being forced to plug in mercenary talent in the top spots. News flash: that didn't win the Cup either! Plus, Laviolette ain't Torts.

I'm not saying be Buffalo for ten years but they need a real plan to make a real transformation. Trading for 32 year old JT Miller signals to me that they're just gonna slap duct tape onto this thing.
 
This is a good point. If JTM can maintain his level of play for the remainder of his contract, he's an excellent value as the cap continues to rise.

He just turned 32, though. Lots of players drop off around that age. Mika is a month younger and has already turned into a pumpkin.
I wouldnt call Mika a pumpkin anymore. He has proven that he can right the ship and was already playing good hockey before JT arrived.
 
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I'm just going to post some factual information and people can do what they want with it:

Before the Miller trade, Zibanejad was shooting 8.1% and the Rangers were shooting 9.4% with him on the ice.

After the Miller trade, Zibanejad is shooting 12.5% and the Rangers are shooting 12.8% with him on the ice.
The bad news is we’re only getting like 12 SOG a game. LOL
 
Personally, I don't know how you can trade for a 32 year old center and say "this is a move for the future." For next year, maybe, but we're going to be running back largely the same team next year, most likely with Kreider out and some $5-6mil player in. Two seasons from now the team will probably have a chance to remake the roster pretty significantly with Panarin's money coming off the books and the increased cap, and at that point JT is already going to be turning 34. Kreider turned 34 this year and everyone can't wait to get rid of him.
 
It’s perhaps Laviolette’s most baffling galaxy brain this season.

He’s running with it now but there’s no reason why Zibanejad should have been moved to wing at any point.
What is even more baffling is that he is seemingly alternating between them for the C-role. Its some weird hybrid shit going on.

Easiest solution would have been JT-Mika-Vinny down the middle. That is actually a prety good center depth but Lavi had to reinvent the wheel.
 
It is.

Cuylle-Zibanejad-Smith drove the f*** out of quality chances.

Cuylle in particular has basically been a driver of offense. People’s opinions on him change based on whether pucks are going in for him and his line or not. He’s virtually been the same guy all year.
I completely forgot about reilly smith. That seems like multiple seasons ago.
 

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