Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If Mika would waive, is Zibs and Kakko or Lindgren enough for JTM?

No

 

[McRanger92]

If the Rangers want to make deals now, they are going to have to take on money. Luckily they have a ton of capspace and not a lot of guys who need to be signed this summer now that Igor and Laf are locked in. Tick Tock Dreary.

 

[LokiDog]

The New York Rangers are a perfectly built team this year

I simply do not see any weaknesses in the Rangers roster this season, they are solid in every department. In my mind they are the best team in the East and only the Avs match them. Vezina winning goalie in Shestyorkin Norris winning defender in Fox Elite 1C in Zibanejad Elite 1W in Panarin...

forums.hfboards.com

If this isn’t ALL of us, I don’t know what is.

 

[MrAlmost]

Even when we are the most talked about team in hockey with the most shit going on we are still f***ing boring.

That's what needs to change. Boring trades. Boring signings. Boring play. Boring prospects.

Boiled chicken of the hockey world.

 

[Machinehead]

I always loved Kreider.

I always loved Fox.

I've hated Kakko for at least two years.

My opinion changed on Lindgren, but again, we're talking a couple of years.

I was mad about Trouba the day we traded for him.

My opinion changed dramatically on Lafreniere but look at his 2023-24 compared to the other years. The stimulus changed.

I pretty much was a centrist on Zibanejad his entire tenure (didn't think he was great but hated the abuse) until this year where, again, the stimulus changed.

Loved Jimbo his whole second stint with the Rangers.

Always pretty much defended Panarin, but not to a fault.

Always shat on Miller except for the one good year he had.

I changed on Schneider but again, he got better, and I haven't said a bad thing about him since.

I hate every goalie, so...

Never said anything bad about Vinnie.

I said Cuylle sucks at passing, and he already has 4 more assists than he did last year, so if anything, I was correct. Shoutout to Will for listening to me.

@JohnC F- SHOW YOUR WORK!

 

[mrmovies779]

You were ready to nail Laf to a cross...you really gonna go there?you killed that kid with a passion

I don't agree with that at all. Sometimes I get swept up in the ebb and flow with the team as a whole. I think I've been pretty consistent on players.

 

[TGWL]

Has he earned it or have others earned a demotion?

A mix of both.

I was one of his biggest critics but he raised his game. Unfortunately, he's gone back to floating a bit. Less engaged like a main piece to the line and more like the 3rd wheel as of late. It's hard to judge though since most of the team has played like poo.

But I'd say it's a mix of both with Laf taking the next step and making better plays, while some other players have really struggled.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I always loved Kreider.

I always loved Fox.

I've hated Kakko for at least two years.

My opinion changed on Lindgren, but again, we're talking a couple of years.

I was mad about Trouba the day we traded for him.

My opinion changed dramatically on Lafreniere but look at his 2023-24 compared to the other years. The stimulus changed.

I pretty much was a centrist on Zibanejad his entire tenure (didn't think he was great but hated the abuse) until this year where, again, the stimulus changed.

Loved Jimbo his whole second stint with the Rangers.

Always pretty much defended Panarin, but not to a fault.

Always shat on Miller except for the one good year he had.

I changed on Schneider but again, he got better, and I haven't said a bad thing about him since.

I hate every goalie, so...

Never said anything about about Vinnie.

I said Cuylle sucks at passing, and he already has 4 more assists than he did last year, so if anything, I was correct. Shoutout to Will for listening to me.

@JohnC F- SHOW YOUR WORK!

I’m glad we’ve cleared that all up.

 

[McRanger92]

Even when we are the most talked about team in hockey with the most shit going on we are still f***ing boring.

That's what needs to change. Boring trades. Boring signings. Boring play. Boring prospects.

Boiled chicken of the hockey world.

It's just a boring league. Analytics made it this way sadly. Front offices can't make hockey deals anymore because cap hits got tied to predictive stats in the minds of fans and the blowback makes them less open to risk. The GMs who buck that line of thinking, for example, Bill Zito trading 2 all stars for 1 guaranteed year of Tkachuk (Ranger fans were hesitant to even trade Kakko) or McCrimmon trading for an injured Eichel (Ranger fans were hesitant to trade Chytil or kakko), usually come out of it looking good. There's an intangible factor to the game of hockey that's not well understood anymore.

 

[bigdog16]

Still nothing?

View attachment 947616

Pretty safe to say nothing will happen until they get back from Dallas

 

[Machinehead]

It's just a boring league. Analytics made it this way sadly. Front offices can't make hockey deals anymore because cap hits got tied to predictive stats in the minds of fans and the blowback makes them less open to risk. The GMs who buck that line of thinking, for example, Bill Zito trading 2 all stars for 1 guaranteed year of Tkachuk (Ranger fans were hesitant to even trade Kakko) or McCrimmon trading for an injured Eichel (Ranger fans were hesitant to trade Chytil or kakko), usually come out of it looking good. There's an intangible factor to the game of hockey that's not well understood anymore.

I wouldn't agree that they're that entrenched in analytics. A team traded their entire farm system for Tanner Jeannot not that long ago.

They're definitely afraid of blowback, especially with the limited job security in this field. It's a very risk-averse sport, on the ice and off.

 

[Bob Richards]

Even when we are the most talked about team in hockey with the most shit going on we are still f***ing boring.

That's what needs to change. Boring trades. Boring signings. Boring play. Boring prospects.

Boiled chicken of the hockey world.

Boring is just in the sports DNA. It’s culturally and psychologically tattooed in there.

The owners are boring. The management is boring. Every GM and almost all coaches are boring. 99.9% of the players have the personalities of room temperature oatmeal. All the media figures are boring.

Every time they try to bring some levity into interviews the players act like they’re in one of those fingernail pulling interrogations at a CIA black site in Serbia.

So despite the incredible disaster-class the Rangers are right now, the lameness of this sport prevents it from feeling cathartic even in a morbid way lmao.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Kreider + Kakko (50% retained) + Lindgren (50% retained) for Eriksson-Ek + Brodin.
What do you think?

Minnesota says no. Brodin is a nonstarter.

 

[I Eat Crow]

If Mika would waive, is Zibs and Kakko or Lindgren enough for JTM?

I would imagine the trade would be 1 for 1 if a deal happens. No need to add Kakko or Lindgren.

A "your headache for my headache" kind of deal.

 

[Machinehead]

Boring is just in the sports DNA. It’s culturally and psychologically tattooed in there.

The owners are boring. The management is boring. Every GM and almost all coaches are boring. 99.9% of the players have the personalities of room temperature oatmeal. All the media figures are boring.

Every time they try to bring some levity into interviews the players act like they’re in one of those fingernail pulling interrogations at a CIA black site in Serbia.

So despite the incredible disaster-class the Rangers are right now, the lameness of this sport prevents it from feeling cathartic even in a morbid way lmao.

I love when teams win championships in other sports, and they bring out a 193 year old literal lizard to accept the trophy, while Holly from ESPN says "congratulations Mr. Rockerfeller, this must be the happiest day of your life since your company produced the steel for bombs that killed 4 million children."

That's one thing hockey does right at least.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

 

[Machinehead]

When can I get a McCheese jersey?

 

[LORDE]

No changes? I’ll check back in a hour

You make it sound like the team just had a shutout loss to one of the worst teams in the NHL

 

[McRanger92]

I wouldn't agree that they're that entrenched in analytics. A team traded their entire farm system for Tanner Jeannot not that long ago.

They're definitely afraid of blowback, especially with the limited job security in this field. It's a very risk-averse sport, on the ice and off.

The team that traded for Jeannott is probably one of the smartest teams in the league for what its worth. That Guentzel contract that wouldnt have helped us at all seems to have made an impact, but i digress).

As far as the "analytics" stuff (I hate that word because its not specific and I dont want to paint all predictive stats with a wide brush) the problem is when a trade or signing goes down Dom L (who is an absolute clown btw) and jfresh and others like that throw a chart in everyone's face and say how stupid a move it was and what an idiot the Gm is before the guy plays a game in his new spot. Just because a player had bad underlying numbers on 1 team, doesnt mean he's going to be bad on another team. There are mountains of examples of this. You can't tie a teams poor underlyings to 1 player, just like you cant tie a good teams underlying numbers to 1 player. Jack Johnson was a boat anchor on the Rangers. He won a Cup as a regular the next year with Colorado. The situation matters more than the players heat map, and the analytics zealots like to appeal to the authority of guys who have largely thrown shit at a wall. 32 NHL teams are not beholden to these orthodoxies that have popped up over the last 10-15 years. Not sure why fans should be.

 

[I Eat Crow]

f*** you.

I saw the blue check mark and Mika Zibanejad traded and got excited.

 

[Machinehead]

The team that traded for Jeannott is probably one of the smartest teams in the league for what its worth. That Guentzel contract that wouldnt have helped us at all seems to have made an impact, but i digress).

As far as the "analytics" stuff (I hate that word because its not specific and I dont want to paint all predictive stats with a wide brush) the problem is when a trade or signing goes down Dom L (who is an absolute clown btw) and jfresh and others like that throw a chart in everyone's face and say how stupid a move it was and what an idiot the Gm is before the guy plays a game in his new spot. Just because a player had bad underlying numbers on 1 team, doesnt mean he's going to be bad on another team. There are mountains of examples of this. You can't tie a teams poor underlyings to 1 player, just like you cant tie a good teams underlying numbers to 1 player. Jack Johnson was a boat anchor on the Rangers. He won a Cup as a regular the next year with Colorado. The situation matters more than the players heat map, and the analytics zealots like to appeal to the authority of guys who have largely thrown shit at a wall. 32 NHL teams are not beholden to these orthodoxies that have popped up over the last 10-15 years. Not sure why fans should be.

The issue I have with those types of models is that players of UFA age are expected to decline. No shit. That's just a work hazard that you have to accept.

 

[Machinehead]

f*** you.

I saw the blue check mark and Mika Zibanejad traded and got excited.

The good one is gold now.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Glad he finally looks happy

 

[Machinehead]

There's always a bit of nuance to it with the analytics.

They can identify really good players and really bad players. Most players just respond to what's around them.

Of course some guys are just shit. Like Scott Laughton.

 

[McRanger92]

The issue I have with those types of models is that players of UFA age are expected to decline. No shit. That's just a work hazard that you have to accept.

Yeah I mean back in the day I didnt need analytics to tell me the Leafs signing Jeff Finger to a 4 year deal or the Rangers signing Wade Redden to a 6 year deal was a bad idea. It was obvious.

Now people wait to see what their GSVA(whatever the f*** that means) is to tell them if they should like a trade, signing or player. Nobody wants to have their own opinion. It's why I dont mind suggesting specific players. I watch a lot of hockey, not just the Rangers. And the charts dont tell you the whole story. Not even half the story a lot of the time. Counting stats dont tell you too much either.