leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
He was a dud until his momma died ....and then he decided to play in her memory .
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)
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Paulie Walnutz
Make HF Great Again
- Oct 1, 2008
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mandiblesofdoom
Registered User
- May 24, 2012
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I told him the same thing but my post was removed for some "unknown" reason. I mean, he him self divulged that information to us.
I had that in mind when I wrote my post. The issue in this thought exercise is that Fox's NMC kicks in on July 1st; which is only an issue if the Rangers actually do consider moving him (they don't). The point about his susceptibility to wear and tear still stands though.
leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
If Lavi gets the axe then I hope a new coach is not really a retread but I would not mind seeing Peca and a new face to the NHL in Gardiner MacDougall who likely will lead the Moncton Wildcats to a Memorial Cup this year in his first regular season .
If you don't know him....Google his name and hockey . He is the real deal with championships everywhere along the way . Many were shocked when he finally left the Canadian university scene . We have lots of money....we should have him in our system .
He easily enough could be a head coach in the NHL before this but money has never been his goal . He should be the guy we zero in on . He wins it all everywhere he has coached in Canada !!!
Hopefully it will be better then the Messier and Avery books....terrible stuff .
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jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
The thing is, this team should not be a bad team. Everyone wants to shit on intangibles all the time but if you've played the game, you understand the importance of them. The Rangers best players all lack the necessary intangibles to be champions. That's just the reality.
That doesn't mean you keep overpaid guys because they have intangibles, you shouldn't. But it's a certain quality of individual that looks at the moves Drury made and says, "I need to be better" instead of "I can't believe he did that to X."
This team won the President's Trophy last year and waltzed into the season with essentially the same lineup, with Jones in for Gustafsson and Smith for Goodrow. There's 0 reason why this team should be 3-10 in their last 13, but here we are.
"Blowing it up" or "going full rebuild" isn't necessary in a situation like this where there is plenty of young talent and an elite goaltender already in tow. The team needs a culture change, a little bit of a retool, and it needs an injection of intensity. Look at the Devils last year. They took a huge step back but this offseason shored up a few blind spots with Pesce, Noesen, Markstrom, Cotter. Those were savvy moves. There's no reason the Rangers can't do something similar in-season and in the offseason and salvage the year, they just need a reason to band together. They're playing like a bunch of individuals and have no identity. That leads me to the conclusion that firing Drury may be the right course, but I doubt Dolan does it.
That doesn't mean you keep overpaid guys because they have intangibles, you shouldn't. But it's a certain quality of individual that looks at the moves Drury made and says, "I need to be better" instead of "I can't believe he did that to X."
This team won the President's Trophy last year and waltzed into the season with essentially the same lineup, with Jones in for Gustafsson and Smith for Goodrow. There's 0 reason why this team should be 3-10 in their last 13, but here we are.
"Blowing it up" or "going full rebuild" isn't necessary in a situation like this where there is plenty of young talent and an elite goaltender already in tow. The team needs a culture change, a little bit of a retool, and it needs an injection of intensity. Look at the Devils last year. They took a huge step back but this offseason shored up a few blind spots with Pesce, Noesen, Markstrom, Cotter. Those were savvy moves. There's no reason the Rangers can't do something similar in-season and in the offseason and salvage the year, they just need a reason to band together. They're playing like a bunch of individuals and have no identity. That leads me to the conclusion that firing Drury may be the right course, but I doubt Dolan does it.
They also replaced Lindy Ruff with a coach interested in playing modern hockey
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
Right. Maybe Laviolette needs to go, too, I don't know.
Something is definitely amiss and a part of me wants to tear the whole thing down because it's frustrating to watch your team appear to quit right before your eyes over some disagreements with management, or whatever it is. It's disheartening to watch these professional athletes act like children.
The other part of me understands it from a human perspective and they really need to all get on the same page. I just don't think that can happen any longer with Drury at the helm. And you can't just fire the whole team, so I don't know what the solution is other than that.
smoneil
Registered User
On the bold--you offer NO indication as to why it is "reasonable" to speculate that Zib waives his NMC. None. Drury doesn't have the same threats for Zib as he did for Goodrow and Trouba.
You also completely ignore the fact that such a move would require the Rangers to retain almost 5 million dollars a year for FIVE years. That will never happen.
You ALSO ignore that such a move leaves an already organizationally-thin position (center) even thinner with no means (financial or otherwise) to bring in someone new.
Zibanejad is here for at least another two seasons, whether you or I like it or not.
Re: Kreider, you still don't explain why the Rangers would WANT to keep Kreider. He can be moved. He can bring in a haul. And he is unique in the fact that he is already being supplanted by younger, cheaper players, with even more on the way. Other than Panarin, no other piece on this roster would bring in as much value.
The ONLY reason to oppose moving him are based in sentimentality (in your case, for a player who has clearly been your favorite player for a decade), but you can't make hockey decisions based on fan emotions. Look, if you don't want the team to trade Kreider because he's your favorite and you don't want to see him go, that's fine. Just don't pretend that there's any logic behind that position, because there is absolutely NO logical argument to be made for Kreider being on this roster past the trade deadline.
SA16
Sixstring
People say that but I don’t think it’s true. Look at how people have reacted this last month. They’re going to sign up for 9 years of play like that?
Would you sign up for this result?
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
Round 2 Loss
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
Round 1 Loss
Round 3 Loss
Round 2 Loss
Stanley Cup Loss
Congratulations, you just got the Edmonton Oilers rebuild. They had the 10th overall pick in 2009, missed the playoffs the next seven years straight, made the playoffs once, missed it two more times. Got four #1 overall picks in that time frame.
How about this one?
Round 2 Loss
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
Round 1 Loss
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
No Playoffs
Round 1 Loss
Round 2 Loss
Round 2 Loss
Round 2 Loss
WIN STANLEY CUP
Round 1 Loss
Round 2 Loss
Now you got the Avalanche. A whole lot of failure with one stanley cup in there - the only final appearance they have. That's since they first bottomed out and got Duchene. Are you considering this rebuild a success? Assuming they started the year before the Duchene pick they missed the playoffs in 6 of 8 years, and did not get out of the 2nd round for 13 years until they won the cup - the only time they've gotten out of the 2nd round in the last 15 years. Oh, and their current status is they are in a wild card spot with more games played than the teams behind them.
Should we even look at Buffalo? Two years of losses in the quarter finals, rebuild time, 14 years straight without making the playoffs with a lot of top picks (Risto/Reinhart/Eichel/A. Nylander/Mitteldstadt/Dahlin/Cozens/Quinn/Power/Savoie) all in the top 10. That's what happens when it goes wrong.
So the successful ones, if you're going to call EDM/COL successful have so far yielded 1 cup in 31 combined seasons (and two cup final appearances). The least successful one hasn't made the playoffs in 15 years. There are more. I'm not going through every team. Just trying to give an idea of what you're signing up for here.
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Insanely hypothetical, but would a guaranteed Cup even be fun to watch? You know in advance how the season is going to end, so why even bother tuning in? You'd just wait until the tail end of the Cup Finals so you can watch the celebrations. There'd be no investment in the season and so no reward...
Look, all of these debates are academic at best. I know we ain’t moving Fox or Shesterkin. We could have a real talk about Panarin, because if he was willing to be flexible with destinations, given he’s able to choose his home again in 1.5 years, he could probably actually bring back a sweet return that helps out long term… but realistically, it’s all just philosophical rambling about a team that’s in a tail spin.
The reality, however, is (as @jerseyjinx94 pointed out) this team won the President’s Trophy and went to the ECF last year. They came back with Smith swapped for Goodrow and Jones for Gustafson. There is literally no excuse in the world that justifies the stretch of hockey we have been watching since mid-November.
We have dropped 10 out of 13.
Our 3 wins have come against Buffalo, Montreal and Pittsburgh. Buffalo and Montreal are in the bottom 4 in the league. Pittsburgh is also in the bottom 10. The first two were 1 goal wins we barely squeaked out. Against bottom 4 teams. Pittsburgh was a 2 goal win.
During this stretch, where we decided to make our goalie the highest paid in hockey history, we have been outscored 50-30. Yes, our defense corps and team defense are shambles, but that is also… not good. Shesterkin’s play hasn’t exactly screamed “I deserve it”. That’s 3.85 goals against per game on average during this stretch. 2.3 goals for.
Something has to give. Something is bigger than a few physical declines here. The fact that a franchise as wealthy and renowned (I know, no one knows why, but we are) as the Rangers should not ever have this level of rot at its core, and when it does it needs to be exterminated swiftly, because it is utterly disgraceful and unacceptable. I don’t care if it hurts. We have to cut whatever the source(s) of this cancer out entirely, as quickly as possible.
The reality, however, is (as @jerseyjinx94 pointed out) this team won the President’s Trophy and went to the ECF last year. They came back with Smith swapped for Goodrow and Jones for Gustafson. There is literally no excuse in the world that justifies the stretch of hockey we have been watching since mid-November.
We have dropped 10 out of 13.
Our 3 wins have come against Buffalo, Montreal and Pittsburgh. Buffalo and Montreal are in the bottom 4 in the league. Pittsburgh is also in the bottom 10. The first two were 1 goal wins we barely squeaked out. Against bottom 4 teams. Pittsburgh was a 2 goal win.
During this stretch, where we decided to make our goalie the highest paid in hockey history, we have been outscored 50-30. Yes, our defense corps and team defense are shambles, but that is also… not good. Shesterkin’s play hasn’t exactly screamed “I deserve it”. That’s 3.85 goals against per game on average during this stretch. 2.3 goals for.
Something has to give. Something is bigger than a few physical declines here. The fact that a franchise as wealthy and renowned (I know, no one knows why, but we are) as the Rangers should not ever have this level of rot at its core, and when it does it needs to be exterminated swiftly, because it is utterly disgraceful and unacceptable. I don’t care if it hurts. We have to cut whatever the source(s) of this cancer out entirely, as quickly as possible.
smoneil
Registered User
Re: the discussion about Fox--I think the team needs to start being more active about managing his minutes and use. Fox reminds me a lot of Derek Stepan. Both very smart players who would otherwise lack the physical traits to survive as an NHL player. Step burned out fairly young, and I think Torts hockey had a lot to do with it. Fox shouldn't be playing 23-25 minutes a night. They can get other guys to play the PK. Reduce some of that punishment on the kid's body. The other side of that is that they need to get him onto a Nate Mackinnon-style fitness regimen. Fox is signed long term. The player and the team need to do as much as they can to protect that long-term investment. Skating him into the ground after a seemingly pedestrian effort as offseason training ain't that.
noncents
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2022
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zlev
Registered User
- Dec 21, 2015
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re-signing Lindgren and letting Gus go was suuuuuch a mistake. Stralman/Staal all over again.
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
That's why there is no such thing as a "guaranteed championship". Look at the 16-0 Patriots, how'd that work out for them?
Goal is to ice the most well rounded roster out there with players, who don't have to be the best, but are completely bought into the system/style if play and bust their behinds night in and out.
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
Those are a bit different. Lindgren was not signed to a disastrous long term contract like Staal was. Gus also has not been good with Detriot. Stralman >>> Gus when comparing the two players and their time with the Rangers.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Gus isn’t good. Re signing Lindgren and not getting Roy/Walker/Chychrun and letting them all go to division rivals was the mistake
I don't know, American football is a mystery to me
But to your larger post, that's exactly my point. There is never a 'guarantee' and even if there was it would actually be boring and defeat most of the reasons most people watch sport
Whoot Whoot
Biased Rangers Fan
zlev
Registered User
- Dec 21, 2015
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i hate this narrative that Gus wasn't good. he was awesome. this team misses him greatly. coulda had him AND Walker.
Theres way more to it than this but it's worth nothing that everything went out the window once Lindgren was re-inserted back into the top 4. It really threw off the balance of a top 4 that was actually working (one that had Trouba in it!)
I don't think that they would have sustained what they were doing (both in analytics and in actual output where they were scoring 293239 goals a game with the expected numbers to match) but Lindgren really threw off the balance of the D and there was some obvious trickle down which has turned into people basically vacillating between doing their own idea of what hockey is (Panarin) to basically panic plays because they don't want the puck to be their problem (Kreider, Zibanejad... Really most of the team.)
Which leads into point #2...
If there were any hurt feelings over Goodrow, the team had gotten over them because they started on fire and were what, 12-4-1 at one point? The leaked memo was either leaked by some other team or by the Rangers themselves as a ploy to get the guys going (it didn't and the severity in which it didn't may have unintentionally worked as well as we now know what kind of group we have here.)
The lack of accountability is also a joke. Kakko, Jones, Berard, Smith, Mancini - Those are EASY guys to scratch.
Where are the scratches for Zibanejad? Kreider? Lindgren? Did RL even miss a shift after that laughable play he made yesterday where he's basically trying to improv a jazz concierto like a master pianist when he's a guy who just sucks at the recorder? You aren't Adam Fox, you aren't making that play. Just hot cross buns that puck off the glass and let the other players on the ice try to keep you afloat until your shift is over.
Dropping Kreider and Zibanejad in the lineup has zero effect when you have them out there as your go to players in a game where they've heavily been outplayed by other guys. I get it, they're part of a grouping that has been successful in the past and has gotten the job done in that situation, but they aren't a successful group anymore and those 2 in particular are a big reason why. Cuylle and Berard? Probably not ever going to be those guys long term but they have been consistent in their play and actually earned a look there. Why not at least reward them for that?
@ThePeoplesPeople give us something please lmao.
I don't think that they would have sustained what they were doing (both in analytics and in actual output where they were scoring 293239 goals a game with the expected numbers to match) but Lindgren really threw off the balance of the D and there was some obvious trickle down which has turned into people basically vacillating between doing their own idea of what hockey is (Panarin) to basically panic plays because they don't want the puck to be their problem (Kreider, Zibanejad... Really most of the team.)
Which leads into point #2...
If there were any hurt feelings over Goodrow, the team had gotten over them because they started on fire and were what, 12-4-1 at one point? The leaked memo was either leaked by some other team or by the Rangers themselves as a ploy to get the guys going (it didn't and the severity in which it didn't may have unintentionally worked as well as we now know what kind of group we have here.)
The lack of accountability is also a joke. Kakko, Jones, Berard, Smith, Mancini - Those are EASY guys to scratch.
Where are the scratches for Zibanejad? Kreider? Lindgren? Did RL even miss a shift after that laughable play he made yesterday where he's basically trying to improv a jazz concierto like a master pianist when he's a guy who just sucks at the recorder? You aren't Adam Fox, you aren't making that play. Just hot cross buns that puck off the glass and let the other players on the ice try to keep you afloat until your shift is over.
Dropping Kreider and Zibanejad in the lineup has zero effect when you have them out there as your go to players in a game where they've heavily been outplayed by other guys. I get it, they're part of a grouping that has been successful in the past and has gotten the job done in that situation, but they aren't a successful group anymore and those 2 in particular are a big reason why. Cuylle and Berard? Probably not ever going to be those guys long term but they have been consistent in their play and actually earned a look there. Why not at least reward them for that?
@ThePeoplesPeople give us something please lmao.
