Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

bleedblue94

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Jun 8, 2004
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Every time he has a game where he has to be what he's supposed to be a star goalie and gives up a soft game winning goal like he did against Calgary we get posts "how many saves do you want him to make?" As if him making many saves means he can give up a backbreaking softy for the winner. And these people act like we're the ones that are unreasonable.
It's unreasonable bc it expects him to be perfect. No one is perfect and that includes Igor, but by almost any metric he is the best in the league and has been consistently there for a number of years. This isn't a small sample size. He is elite. People point to a bad goal or game here or there and use that to act like anti niemi would be a suitable replacement or act like we would use the money in a better way. We won't. The org committed to its structure of the roster and slotted players where it wanted. That won't magically change with some more cap and a worse goalie, and they literally have no other option long term in net, and no assets to trade for a goalie (quick is an elite backup, but he is a backup at his age).

The issue with Igor is the same that happened with henke and even Richter during the dark years. Having a top goalie on a badish or even average team forces the team to push forward bc the goalie drags the team up. If Igor wasn't a thing and Georgiev was here this team would have been drafting in the lottery for years, and the same people complaining about paying Igor now would be complaining that nyr needs a top goalie to not suck.

Igor has been a luxury, and one that almost this entire board complained about when he signed his last contract bc you all felt he was overpaid. The org has had elite goaltending for years at half the cost of what it should be and the org still hasn't been able to build a good team that can compete 5v5, and now some of you want to dump Igor, replace him with a worse goalie that would make the same money Igor is making now, and somehow think the org is going to build a proper roster based on decades of evidence showing you all that the priority is marketability over championship roster construction (no, they are not the same). This org needs a culling, it needs the entitlement removed. Igor is not one of the entitled on this roster, if he was he would be throwing his teammates under the bus everyday for their awful play, especially when he is in the midst of his career payday contract negotiation.

People are targeting kreider and trouba but the biggest long term grenade is Mika (you know the guy that this board didn't want to risk losing to get eichel). They can't touch Mika bc of his contract (again handing out clauses to players who would sign here anyway bc NYC fits their off ice life), so they are attacking his BFF and threatening to trade him. If kreider is moved it is almost certainly only to piss Mika off and rattle him into considering accepting a trade as well after they take away his friend. For NYR to move kreider makes no sense based on their decades long history of marketability and the recent eyesore of watching an nyr staple in another jersey at the end of his career with henke. Kreider is most likely going to have his jersey retired (save the scoffs) with what he has done in historical nyr numbers, his longevity with the org, and the tremendous success the org has had at times while he has been here (no cup, but how many deep playoff runs, although mostly thanks to elite goaltending).

Drury tried to go at this core quietly this summer and rock it. They core used the media and shut their own GM down. Drury usually doesn't lose these one on one battles and he is scorned. He has been anti media since day one as shown by firing long time beloved staff that leaked anything. Yet suddenly he is actively going at his roster through the media with numerous reports of trade emails, players on the block, and potential letters being removed. This is an all out calamity right now of a gm that f***ed up by giving out nmc and ntc to players, locking in a roster with term contracts and no cap flexibility, and then thinking he would still be able to do what he wanted to them as contracts aged. The players stood up to their boss and he recognizes the entitlement of the core, yet through the org's own mistakes with the clauses he can't do anything about it without engaging the media machine and starting a public process against them that he will most likely lose.

That interview kreider did about his back was the exact same thing trouba did by suggesting he wouldn't report if traded. It was a strategic move to disengage trade interest from other teams through the media. Who the hell wants to trade for a mid 30 years old 5v5 black hole with a documented bad back? Kreider was scaring the league away from him bc he wants to stay w nyr. He only needs to scare half the league away from himself. Drury can try and negotiate deals all he wants but he's screwed bc of these clauses.

This year has the potential to turn into a circus and in some ways I think Drury is also making these attempts for change public so Dolan knows that Drury tried to trade two guys that were signed by gorton and that he couldn't trade them bc of the contract clauses. This summer I think it's reasonable to expect a quarter of this roster to be turned over with names like kreider, trouba, lindgren, Smith, kakko, vesey, and even Miller all gone (I actually think Miller needs housley gone before a determination is made on him, bc of nyr moves him and he connects with an actual good defense coach he should establish as an elite shutdown top 4 d man, but he has no idea what to do right now defensively like the rest of the roster but he's become the trendy whipping boy).

This season may become one that they write a book about. Instead of "Nightmare on 34th Street" this can be "The Country Club Strikes Back"
 

QJL

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Guys, we're totally f'd. Nobody is taking that Mika contract unless we're sending a top prospect of first round pick out. Stop imagining the roster without him. That's not coming for a long time. Time to slowly shift the older pieces out and plan for 2027 and beyond.

The only regular players that should be on this roster in 3 years are:

Lafreniere
Kakko
Cuylle
Schneider
Fox
Chytil* if healthy
 
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Savant

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Per the CBA, players can only have an NMC/NTC during their UFA years. Both Fox and Lafreniere have some form of trade protection in the later years of their contracts.


Good we can trade them this deadline then

Guys, we're totally f'd. Nobody is taking that Mika contract unless we're sending a top prospect of first round pick out. Stop imagining the roster without him. That's coming for a long time. Time to slowly shift the older pieces out and plan for 2027 and beyond.
So here’s the thing. I was at the game yesterday. I knew it would be bad, but it looked even worse live. It was honestly shocking.
 

EdJovanovski

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Apr 26, 2016
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Igor to Colorado or Carolina. That theoretically solidifies them as the top cup contenders

Get one of their top LHD prospects

I’ve been on the Gulyayev train

I love Igor…. Bottom line, 12M for a goalie on a franchise that turns nearly all goalies into top performers… it just doesn’t make sense.
He's the undisputed best goalie in the NHL, he is worth way more than Gulyayev (who though I'm a big fan of, he hasn't been producing any more this year than last year). I could see Nikishin, though he's having a down year as well; I would want Svechnikov coming back instead.
 

LOFIN

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Sep 16, 2011
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Guys, we're totally f'd. Nobody is taking that Mika contract unless we're sending a top prospect of first round pick out. Stop imagining the roster without him. That's coming for a long time. Time to slowly shift the older pieces out and plan for 2027 and beyond.
I actually don't think it would be that hard to move the Mika contract. There would be teams interested, even at full salary. There are always teams desperate for talent, who are not looking to contend immediately.

The issue would be getting him to waive his NMC.

He's the undisputed best goalie in the NHL, he is worth way more than Gulyayev (who though I'm a big fan of, he hasn't been producing any more this year than last year). I could see Nikishin, though he's having a down year as well; I would want Svechnikov coming back instead.
I think Igor is the best goalie, but I don't think it's undisputed. Hellebuyck can definitely make a good case.
 
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QJL

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I actually don't think it would be that hard to move the Mika contract. There would be teams interested, even at full salary. There are always teams desperate for talent, who are not looking to contend immediately.

The issue would be getting him to waive his NMC.

I don't think any team in the league wants the worst center in the league for 4.25M x 6 years
 
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SnowblindNYR

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He's the undisputed best goalie in the NHL, he is worth way more than Gulyayev (who though I'm a big fan of, he hasn't been producing any more this year than last year). I could see Nikishin, though he's having a down year as well; I would want Svechnikov coming back instead.

Undisputed by whom? Best talent, bottom 10 composure.
 

mandiblesofdoom

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May 24, 2012
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Coaches have tried to get Zib right by just letting him play through it. That clearly doesn't work. The issue with Zib is likely one of two things-- either he doesn't give a shit or he's just buried in his own head with confidence issues.
Or he's injured.
 

Savant

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He's the undisputed best goalie in the NHL, he is worth way more than Gulyayev (who though I'm a big fan of, he hasn't been producing any more this year than last year). I could see Nikishin, though he's having a down year as well; I would want Svechnikov coming back instead.
Canes aren’t doing either of those. Colorado might because they are desperate but the Canes are rightfully slow playing their re-tool. They’ll replace Burns and Orlov with Morrow and Nikishin and be relatively fine

Or he's injured.
I don’t think he’s injured. I think he’s playing like he is afraid to get injured though
 

LOFIN

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I don't think any team in the league wants the worst center in the league for 4.25M x 6 years
Well I can bet you that you would be wrong. We know Mika has sucked for the better part of two years now. People from the outside (at least some of them) are still looking at him as a PPG defensively responsible center. 8.5 will be the new 6M in like two years when the cap goes up. In a world where the best centers are making 14-16M, 8M for Zibanejad is a decent bargain for a team like the Sharks who probably could use someone behind Cellebrini. Or Chicago, behind Bedard. Tons of examples.

But, it's all very pointless as an exercise because there is no way in hell Mika is waiving his NMC to move away from New York life with him and his wife just having a kid, on year 3 of an 8 year contract.
 

TominNC

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I actually don't think it would be that hard to move the Mika contract. There would be teams interested, even at full salary. There are always teams desperate for talent, who are not looking to contend immediately.

The issue would be getting him to waive his NMC.


I think Igor is the best goalie, but I don't think it's undisputed. Hellebuyck can definitely make a good case.
Yes the issue. He’s immovable if he wants to be immovable. We see Kreider making himself more immovable, what makes anyone think Mika wants out
 

bleedblue94

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Jun 8, 2004
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Florida won the cup after adding OEL, Kulikov and Mikkola to their defense. They suffocated us. Guys like that are on the market every year and deadline. It’s a matter of acting rather than talking. The Rangers love to talk. They don’t love to take action. A mentality change is needed. Play the kids who have been carrying us and slash the icetime of the vets who suck. Nothing is stopping them from doing this. Defense is the most easily correctable issue right now. If they stink it up the next 3 games, something needs to be done. Trust me I’m pissed off and annoyed by their play, but im not punting on this season, or any season.
Umm it's a lot more to do with team culture and coaching than "acting." Maurice came in an drove a culture and has complete buy in from his core on day one. When you have horses that go 100 percent then the rest can't skip or they get left behind. Nyr constantly is looking for the bottom up approach to intensity and drive. This is part of why it hasn't worked here since messier left for Vancouver EXCEPT for that period that Torts was given the keys to cull out the deadwood and make like miserable for anyone that wasn't willing to commit to the team. His brand of hockey sucked bc the roster had no skill, but damn did that group of skill-less warriors make it easy to cheer for them in battles bc you never had to question their heart, passion, or determination. This organization needs a jackass back into it that will make the players lives miserable if they won't commit to team hockey and to each other. Those guys exist. One just got hired in Toronto. They have a short shelf life sometimes bc players get sick of working so hard as they get holder but coaches like Torts and Berube won't allow for the horseshit we are here.

Lavy came in talking to talk but he has proven to be gutless in maintaining accountability, and once players get a sniff of that then it's over and it's anarchy.

I wrote this awhile ago but it bears repeating. When lavy was fired in phili I think people forget that Bobby Clarke said a big part of the firing was that the training camp that years was the worst he had ever seen by a coach in his career. He wasn't talking about the players, he was talking about organization, structure, and accountability.

I ask this board, what are we all seeing lacking in this team right now...
 

bleedblue94

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Jun 8, 2004
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I don't know who the f top shelf hockey is but I can tell you that what ever Kreider says has little impact one way or the other.

Teams are going to review his medicals and not just take his word for it. Plus that entire methodology would go out the window the second he returns to playing.
That is so arrogant. Teams can review medicals all they want, if they trade for him and he says his back hurts and can't play then the team can't force him to play. What team would actually trade assets to get into a fight with a player to make him play when he doesn't want to be traded in the first place. And you last comment is dense. His back was hurting in camp, he returned to play, but he isn't playing now. Returning to play doesn't mean he is without an issue. Plenty of players fall off with back issues. They don't just go away when they develop in your vertebrae.

I think Igor is the best goalie, but I don't think it's undisputed. Hellebuyck can definitely make a good case.
There isn't a single team in this league that would take hellebuyck over Igor in the playoffs, not one. If you have watched hellebuyck closely in the playoffs he is not recognizable to the goalie he is in the regular season. Igor has a history of elite playoffs at this point and dragged this team to a conference final last year when it had no business of being there at all. Hellebuyck was on par with Georgiev last year.
 
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bleedblue94

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Well I can bet you that you would be wrong. We know Mika has sucked for the better part of two years now. People from the outside (at least some of them) are still looking at him as a PPG defensively responsible center. 8.5 will be the new 6M in like two years when the cap goes up. In a world where the best centers are making 14-16M, 8M for Zibanejad is a decent bargain for a team like the Sharks who probably could use someone behind Cellebrini. Or Chicago, behind Bedard. Tons of examples.

But, it's all very pointless as an exercise because there is no way in hell Mika is waiving his NMC to move away from New York life with him and his wife just having a kid, on year 3 of an 8 year contract.
The decision that should be made is long term so you want Trocheck or Mika as your 2c. To your point, actual 1c's are going to be paid 12m annually very soon. Not just the elite one, but even the ones to daylight as a 1c. I mean Chandler Stephenson just signed for 2m less per compared to Mika and Stephenson is basically a 2/3 tweener on any decent team. So who do you hitch to long term knowing your org has basically no center depth at all, Trocheck or Mika.

The only way Mika accepts is if it is to an absolute oasis of a location with tax benefits and those teams don't need or want him. The only one that might, MIGHT is Tampa if nyr retained bc Tampa is missing that shit from the left dot pp and I wonder if mika could go there and just fit in with all the pressure off of him. He could even go back to playing wing like stammer did. Would Tampa do it if nyr retained 2.5m or so? Who knows if either would have the guts to do it

You can’t LTIR someone who says they aren’t hurt. A buyout of Mika’s contract is ugly
The way you get Mika to accept a trade is bury him on the 4th line and take away his pp time. If he is going to suck in nyr then take away his cookies and make it miserable until he says get me out of here. Nyr won't do it though, they are all talk and no bite.
 

LOFIN

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Sep 16, 2011
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The way you get Mika to accept a trade is bury him on the 4th line and take away his pp time. If he is going to suck in nyr then take away his cookies and make it miserable until he says get me out of here. Nyr won't do it though, they are all talk and no bite.
No team pulls shit that extreme on a player. Players around the league do talk, and they stick out for each other. While I do think NYR are in a better position than most, it would still cause a lot of resentment around the league, not to mention the locker room.

You can demote Mika alright, based on his performance. To try and bully a player to waive his trade protection? That's not happening, and I can bet you the NHLPA would get involved pretty f***ing fast if that was going on.
 

UAGoalieGuy

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Buying out Zib doesn't make sense, the Rangers would only save $667k through the 2029-30 season then have a $333k cap credit for the next 4 years after that.

His contract was structured to be essentially buyout proof.
 
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GoAwayPanarin

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That is so arrogant. Teams can review medicals all they want, if they trade for him and he says his back hurts and can't play then the team can't force him to play. What team would actually trade assets to get into a fight with a player to make him play when he doesn't want to be traded in the first place. And you last comment is dense. His back was hurting in camp, he returned to play, but he isn't playing now. Returning to play doesn't mean he is without an issue. Plenty of players fall off with back issues. They don't just go away when they develop in your vertebrae.


There isn't a single team in this league that would take hellebuyck over Igor in the playoffs, not one. If you have watched hellebuyck closely in the playoffs he is not recognizable to the goalie he is in the regular season. Igor has a history of elite playoffs at this point and dragged this team to a conference final last year when it had no business of being there at all. Hellebuyck was on par with Georgiev last year.

Not doing this with you today but you clearly have never hurt your back (and I hope you never do!)

Happy thanksgiving!
 
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DanielBrassard

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Buying out Zib doesn't make sense, the Rangers would only save $667k through the 2029-30 season then have a $333k cap credit for the next 4 years after that.

His contract was structured to be essentially buyout proof.
Yeah if he’s not willing to waive the Rangers are stuck with him for the foreseeable future. Just gotta build a team around having an 8.5M anchor strapped around their necks. If he is willing to waive I think there are teams out there that would take a chance on him rebounding in a new environment. Nashville for example is said to be looking for centers.
 

bleedblue94

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Jun 8, 2004
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No team pulls shit that extreme on a player. Players around the league do talk, and they stick out for each other. While I do think NYR are in a better position than most, it would still cause a lot of resentment around the league, not to mention the locker room.

You can demote Mika alright, based on his performance. To try and bully a player to waive his trade protection? That's not happening, and I can bet you the NHLPA would get involved pretty f***ing fast if that was going on.
If they were worried about resentment then they trouba thing would not have played the way it did with the org trying to force him into accepting a deal. The nhlpa would have no oversite at all on a player being demoted to the 4th line and denied pp time. Is it normal, no, but you remember that nyr first sent redden to the minors to make his life miserable and the nhlpa had no oversight. They certainly don't have any on decreasing a players role and taking away his opportunity for cookies

Not doing this with you today but you clearly have never hurt your back (and I hope you never do!)

Happy thanksgiving!
What are you talking about? If you have had a back injury to the extent that discs and vertebrate are coming up then you know that the next terms that come are fusions or disc replacement. It doesn't mean they are coming next week, but they are in the future. These injuries don't magically get better and a player making the issue public is a great way to scare other teams away from being willing to trade anything of value for the player. It's a GREAT strategic move by kreider and assuredly comes with advisement from his agent if he wants to stay in nyr
 

SA16

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Aug 25, 2006
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If they were worried about resentment then they trouba thing would not have played the way it did with the org trying to force him into accepting a deal. The nhlpa would have no oversite at all on a player being demoted to the 4th line and denied pp time. Is it normal, no, but you remember that nyr first sent redden to the minors to make his life miserable and the nhlpa had no oversight. They certainly don't have any on decreasing a players role and taking away his opportunity for cookies


What are you talking about? If you have had a back injury to the extent that discs and vertebrate are coming up then you know that the next terms that come are fusions or disc replacement. It doesn't mean they are coming next week, but they are in the future. These injuries don't magically get better and a player making the issue public is a great way to scare other teams away from being willing to trade anything of value for the player. It's a GREAT strategic move by kreider and assuredly comes with advisement from his agent if he wants to stay in nyr

The Rangers did not send Redden to the minors to “make his life miserable”
 

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