Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[Ruggs225]

Until Kreider doesn't show up in the playoffs, he's the least of my worries. I willing to play off his "decline" as a veteran who is pacing himself for the end of the season. He has a lot of leash to work with in my mind.

For others who haven't performed for us in crunch time, I'm more inclined to think that actual decline is happening.

He didnt show up for the florida series. That is for sure.

 

[cheech70]

We are deep at LW...Kreider wants someone else to retrieve puck...his bro doesn't want to get puck either...Berard, Kaako,Cuylee will retrieve the puck....simple as that...sell before his value tanks

 

[Machinehead]

How much of that is on the zombie playing center?

It attempts to adjust for linemates, although I don't think that would ever be perfect.

Point taken, and I’m not an expert on the ins and outs of what these sort of figures incorporate into the model, but I haven’t considered Kreider to be an influential “play driver” since Vigneault was coach. With the exception of shorthand situations, he’s a pure finisher. We don’t expect Matt Moulson, Anders Lee, Jonathan Cheechoo, Petr Prucha to be responsible for generating chances. They’re there to be the “target forward” in the soccer/futbol sense.

If Robin Van Persie isn’t getting chances it’s because he isn’t getting service

I think if you played Kreider with Chytil and Kakko on the third line, two good even strength players, in time you might have something

He was still a decent play-driver up until this year. He's not the machine on the boards he used to be, because he's not that fast anymore. I was the first to say it and got dragged for it. He stopped being burner after like, around Covid. The net-front version of Kreider is slow Kreider.

But also, the non-driving version of Kreider is still a pretty good driver. The Rangers scored 58% of the goals he was on the ice for last year at 5v5.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Kreider hasn't changed one bit in 3.5 years so I'm unclear why he's a focal point. We've known what he does for ages now. He hasn't visibly declined this year, to me at least.

Imo it's more about leadership, seeing the same outcome on repeat, if you wanna change the culture in the room the voices need to change and they can't with Kreider and Trouba as large personalities in the room. I've always wanted to see Kreider retire a lifelong ranger but maybe he's the guy that sets the tone for this team, and if so it's not enough

 

[Ruggs225]

It attempts to adjust for linemates, although I don't think that would ever be perfect.

He was still a decent play-driver up until this year. He's not the machine on the boards he used to be, because he's not that fast anymore. I was the first to say it and got dragged for it. He stopped being burner after like, around Covid. The net-front version of Kreider is slow Kreider.

But also, the non-driving version of Kreider is still a pretty good driver. The Rangers scored 58% of the goals he was on the ice for last year at 5v5.

Him being on the ice doesnt mean that he is a driver. In fact he isnt the driver he is the finisher. Someone else makes the play, pass, shot that Kreider deflects in.

And yes he might be the best player ever at that, but he in no way drives the play. Everyone around him has to make the play.

On the PP, panarin and Fox drive the play. Kreider is the recipient.

The only place kreider drives the play is the Pk, which is has been amazing at the past fre years.

 

[Machinehead]

Imo it's more about leadership, seeing the same outcome on repeat, if you wanna change the culture in the room the voices need to change and they can't with Kreider and Trouba as large personalities in the room. I've always wanted to see Kreider retire a lifelong ranger but maybe he's the guy that sets the tone for this team, and if so it's not enough

Leadership isn't the primary issue with this team. The roster has more holes than a golf course.

 

[Fitzy]

It attempts to adjust for linemates, although I don't think that would ever be perfect.

He was still a decent play-driver up until this year. He's not the machine on the boards he used to be, because he's not that fast anymore. I was the first to say it and got dragged for it. He stopped being burner after like, around Covid. The net-front version of Kreider is slow Kreider.

But also, the non-driving version of Kreider is still a pretty good driver. The Rangers scored 58% of the goals he was on the ice for last year at 5v5.

This has been noticeable. A little surprising give nhis fitness, but speed hits different players at different ages. Chimera was still a demon at 38.

But Mika has been the worst version of himself this season. Take his slump after his covid shooting % season (And he was actually doing very well finishing that year so I tink he deserves some credit for that high figure) and everything he has touches has turned to stone his year. Like that "Honey I shrunk the kids" episode in the 90's.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

How much of that is on the zombie playing center?

Some, but not all. Kreider has not shown up this season so far

 

[Machinehead]

Him being on the ice doesnt mean that he is a driver. In fact he isnt the driver he is the finisher. Someone else makes the play, pass, shot that Kreider deflects in.

And yes he might be the best player ever at that, but he in no way drives the play. Everyone around him has to make the play.

On the PP, panarin and Fox drive the play. Kreider is the recipient.

The only place kreider drives the play is the Pk, which is has been amazing at the past fre years.

At 5v5? Who?

Mika Zibanejad? Blake Wheeler???

 

[Fitzy]

Imo it's more about leadership, seeing the same outcome on repeat, if you wanna change the culture in the room the voices need to change and they can't with Kreider and Trouba as large personalities in the room. I've always wanted to see Kreider retire a lifelong ranger but maybe he's the guy that sets the tone for this team, and if so it's not enough

But Trouba was appointed a leadership role. If Kreider was expected to be that, it would have happened by now. Everyone knows he's a role player, not a core piece, and I think a 6.5 million tag is fine for that in this day and age. He's our Patrick Sharp.

 

[SA16]

We are deep at LW...Kreider wants someone else to retrieve puck...his bro doesn't want to get puck either...Berard, Kaako,Cuylee will retrieve the puck....simple as that...sell before his value tanks

I would not say we are deep at LW if you remove him. After Panarin the next best LW is a guy having a breakout season who scored 21 points last year. Will he keep up this level of production (not likely given he's shooting 26% at 5v5 with an insane on ice shooting percentage of 14.7%), go back to last year (not likely either) or settle somewhere in between? Is that in between 3rd line production? Then you just have Vesey or prospects who have barely played like Berard or Othmann who is hurt. Sure, you can move Laf back to LW but then you just move the weakness over to RW.

 

[grachevsceiling]

Kakko plays center for the rest of the year and puts up 25-25-50 while playing great D, everything smooths over with the vets, Kreider & Zib both go on extended PP goal scoring streaks, Igor plays unreal and we make it deep in the playoffs again but with the sneaking suspicion that our 5 on 5 play is not sustainable. In the off season Drury decides to give Shesty his insane contract and Kakko prices himself out because he’s asking for 5 mil and Drury holds the line at 4.8 (because after all, he’s RUTHLESS).

Just a little ‘mare I had.

 

[CLW]

Imo it's more about leadership, seeing the same outcome on repeat, if you wanna change the culture in the room the voices need to change and they can't with Kreider and Trouba as large personalities in the room. I've always wanted to see Kreider retire a lifelong ranger but maybe he's the guy that sets the tone for this team, and if so it's not enough

To me Kreider is the real leader in that room. He didn't want to be the Captain so the captaincy went to Trouba and things went pear-shaped.

 

[MrAlmost]

I could see LA liking Z. He would probably waive for that too. They seem to need another center since I think Byfield is playing wing now.

 

[Ruggs225]

At 5v5? Who?

Mika Zibanejad? Blake Wheeler???

Nobody is driving the play 5on5 on that line. Thats the problem. Its still not him. He might try, but he isnt good at it. He is a very good complimentary player.

Actually i take that back, the other team drives the play when the kreider-zib line is on the ice.

Also, i still think that Kreider has the speed. He just doesnt use it nearly as frequently. It could be age, and the amount of abuse he has teken over the years. BUt we still get glimpses of bis speed once in while. Especially on the Pk.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Leadership isn't the primary issue with this team. The roster has more holes than a golf course.

Sometimes players only go as hard as the lead dog, if the lead dog doesn't wanna hit, forecheck, backcheck, get into dirty areas, the rest of the team follows. We do so many fly by poke checks and crap like that, I cant imagine Marchand or Chara allowing that type of play. The holes shouldn't be as big as they are of everyone puts the effort in, right now we got Laf, Kakko, Cuylle, Jones, and Fox putting the extra effort in, the rest are coasting behind their leaders

 

[will1066]

At 5v5? Who?

Mika Zibanejad? Blake Wheeler???

Kreider scored that 5v5 goal in the left slot a couple of games ago from a sweet passing play by Smith and Zibanejad. When Zib and Kreider were split up, Zib played slightly better (looking less dead) for a stretch of 3 or so games. And as bad as Zib was last game, he did give Cuylle a sweet pass for his goal after the Berard wrap-around try. I don't remember many good Kreider things recently.

 

[Ruggs225]

But Trouba was appointed a leadership role. If Kreider was expected to be that, it would have happened by now. Everyone knows he's a role player, not a core piece, and I think a 6.5 million tag is fine for that in this day and age. He's our Patrick Sharp.

Always loved Patrick Sharp

 

[leetch99]

We are deep at LW...Kreider wants someone else to retrieve puck...his bro doesn't want to get puck either...Berard, Kaako,Cuylee will retrieve the puck....simple as that...sell before his value tanks

He could play without shoulder pads these days . Plus ...is he standing even further away from the crease on the PP now than he was ? He will soon need one of Rempe sticks to tip one in . Somebody must have a chart on inches from the crease versus last season out there......

 

[Shesterkybomb]

But Trouba was appointed a leadership role. If Kreider was expected to be that, it would have happened by now. Everyone knows he's a role player, not a core piece, and I think a 6.5 million tag is fine for that in this day and age. He's our Patrick Sharp.

No matter if Kreider wears a letter or not he's a co leader on this team

 

[zlev]

all of the forwards will suffer when they're on the ice with sub-NHL defensmen

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider scored that 5v5 goal in the left slot a couple of games ago from a sweet passing play by Smith and Zibanejad. When Zib and Kreider were split up, Zib played slightly better (looking less dead) for a stretch of 3 or so games. And as bad as Zib was last game, he did give Cuylle a sweet pass for his goal after the Berard wrap-around try. I don't remember many good Kreider things recently.

He's been bad this year. We're talking about last year, because people are trying to claim this is what Kreider has been for years. That's wildly inaccurate.

He carried Zibanejad and Wheeler to nearly a 6:4 5v5 goal advantage last year.

 

[Machinehead]

Sometimes players only go as hard as the lead dog, if the lead dog doesn't wanna hit, forecheck, backcheck, get into dirty areas, the rest of the team follows. We do so many fly by poke checks and crap like that, I cant imagine Marchand or Chara allowing that type of play. The holes shouldn't be as big as they are of everyone puts the effort in, right now we got Laf, Kakko, Cuylle, Jones, and Fox putting the extra effort in, the rest are coasting behind their leaders

Marchand's team is spiraling right now because they suck.

Leadership doesn't fix the roster being bad.

 

[Alluckks]

I don't think this is entirely just a bluff. Maybe it is with Kreider, but this would be the second time they actively shopped Trouba.

I think the conversion was probably "look, business is business, but you guys are on the Rangers right now, let's be professionals and focus on hockey."

Much more like this to me

Don't piss in the kettle just because you won't be drinking it next week, be a professional; aka don't be a bitch and poison the locker room just because you want to mope and be a pain in the ass rather than play hockey (looking at you Mika)

Drury knows how that goes, for f***'s sake he got bought out by this very team

 

[Ruggs225]

He could play without shoulder pads these days . Plus ...is he standing even further away from the crease on the PP now than he was ? He will soon need one of Rempe sticks to tip one in . Somebody must have a chart on inches from the crease versus last season out there......

I wonder how much the injury affected his tip ins and crease play. He was still pretty good, but not nearly as good as the past couple years.