Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[B17 Apricots]

Coming into the season there was near zero reason to contemplate trading Kreider. A 70 point guy making 6.5M per, fantastic. One of the best net front guys in the league. You get the same exact play in the playoffs, you know what youre getting. But people are holding onto the emotions of it. We're about a quarter of the season in so far, he's on pace for 40 points. I doubt he finishes that low, but it hasn't looked great so far. You have to constantly reevaluate. Is he that guy right now? Not so far this year. I dont think it's helped that he's been stapled to Mika. But they are both blowing at 5v5. We can call him the best net front guy all we want until we're blue in the face, the guy has 9 points on the year. He has 2 5v5 points, 3 PP goals. Forget the past. This year, at this moment, he hasn't been much of a factor for this team. So we'll see how the rest of the season plays out. If Cuylle can maintain some level of consistency here and Kreider continues trending this way - it's not unrealistic that he could be on the table

 

[McRanger92]

What if we do it with an extension in place? He's still pretty young, 27. And I'm sure he'd like to play with Panarin & Igor. Would be a massive upgrade on Lindgren

He's only 27??? Wow I would have guessed he was in his 30s. He's been around forever. With this new information I am 100% in on him. Trouba back to Columbus to reunite with JD. Its a quick flight Jacob!

 

[bobbop]

Are we allowed to put to bed the narrative that the Rangers can't develop players?

Read somewhere that the Rangers have the second most goals from players under the age of 25.

 

[McRanger92]

Coming into the season there was near zero reason to contemplate trading Kreider. A 70 point guy making 6.5M per, fantastic. One of the best net front guys in the league. You get the same exact play in the playoffs, you know what youre getting. But people are holding onto the emotions of it. We're about a quarter of the season in so far, he's on pace for 40 points. I doubt he finishes that low, but it hasn't looked great so far. You have to constantly reevaluate. Is he that guy right now? Not so far this year. I dont think it's helped that he's been stapled to Mika. But they are both blowing at 5v5. We can call him the best net front guy all we want until we're blue in the face, the guy has 9 points on the year. He has 2 5v5 points, 3 PP goals. Forget the past. This year, at this moment, he hasn't been much of a factor for this team. So we'll see how the rest of the season plays out. If Cuylle can maintain some level of consistency here and Kreider continues trending this way - it's not unrealistic that he could be on the table

Kreider is an all time Ranger, but the years have caught up to him. 34 by seasons end. He's a shell of himself 5v5 and I would rather chalk it up to the punishment he has taken, than accuse him really of checking out. He should have his number retired regardless.

Drury/Laviolette need to have the chat with Kreider and other select veterans (Mika, Trouba obviously) that their roles will be significantly reduced, like others have pointed out Dallas did with Benn/Seguin when their young core started to pop. If they want to save their full effort for the playoffs they can do it by sitting on the bench and letting our 23 year old studs lead the team. The ice time against Calgary was terrible. Lavi is too busy blaming the refs and Drury we havent heard from in ages. Stop being beholden to this core because if they do its a waste of a season. All options would be on the table for me in the summer regarding the vets if they don't at least get to the Finals.

 

[EdJovanovski]

He's only 27??? Wow I would have guessed he was in his 30s. He's been around forever. With this new information I am 100% in on him. Trouba back to Columbus to reunite with JD. Its a quick flight Jacob!

Yea hahah I did a double take when I saw his age too, but he's been an NHL regular since he was only 19 so that's why. He's in his prime now and he's spent his career on shitty teams so there may even be something more there as well. He's also great in transition and a great skater, some of our biggest weaknesses on the back end

 

[McRanger92]

Read somewhere that the Rangers have the second most goals from players under the age of 25.

Patience was never a virtue here. I was guilty of it too.

Yea hahah I did a double take when I saw his age too, but he's been an NHL regular since he was only 19 so that's why. He's in his prime now and he's spent his career on shitty teams so there may even be something more there as well. He's also great in transition and a great skater, some of our biggest weaknesses on the back end

This team is missing a player like him. Any guy who came from the Flyers is sturdy and hes been in the Metro his whole career. Id think trade and extend if Columbus sells. Rangers do well with Russians.

 

[Vitto79]

Is trading Lindgren for a 2nd and 3rd then a 1st for Provorov even an upgrade ?

 

[bobbop]

Is trading Lindgren for a 2nd and 3rd then a 1st for Provorov even an upgrade ?

It could be. Provorov has been in regression the last couple of years but a change of scenery could really help. Three years ago, he was one of the best age group defensemen in the league. The returns would need to change. But you may be in the ballpark.

 

[TheDirtyH]

The Rangers have countless, potentially better internal options for their problems than trying to fix their underperforming players and it's what's so consistently annoying about this franchise that they refuse to do it.

Kreider is 34. He's played a lot of games and playoff games. It should not be even a little surprising to see his 5v5 game slip significantly, but it also should be really obvious, if not already PLAN A going into the year to play this guy in a bottom 6 role, as a special teams ace. The fact that Cuylle and Kakko have proven themselves ready for top 6 assignment and production should've made this an automatic switch.

But this is a team who had the youngest norris winner since bobby orr and who has somehow never, not once across his whole career led the team's defense in 5v5 icetime.

The Rangers are just a very confusing organization at this point. It's not clear to me, a fan who's watched every game since god knows when, what it is they value, what they reward, what they look for in a player, what their vision is for a team, or a style... not since torts at least, but even then, they seemed to create a team that, for example, absolutely depended on paper-skin, glass-bones Marian Gaborik who the coach went out of his way not to play. (God that reminds me of Keith Yandle too....)

 

[LokiDog]

Cuylle has made kreider 100% expendable. Cuylle is kreider if kreider was capable of producing testosterone.

I think we see some big moves this offseason with trouba, kreider and lindgren gone and perhaps even kandre gone. Will be interesting

You’re not allowed to use the word testosterone on these boards in reference to absolutely ridicule worthy effort, apparently. Policy of one or two new posters who ride extremely tall steeds.

 

[LokiDog]

It could be. Provorov has been in regression the last couple of years but a change of scenery could really help. Three years ago, he was one of the best age group defensemen in the league. The returns would need to change. But you may be in the ballpark.

Provorov is fairly solid defensively. His offense hasn’t been what was once hoped it would be, but unlike Lindy he still has strong mobility and reasonably solid puck moving ability, so realistically if we could swap the two it probably makes us better.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Kreider is an all time Ranger, but the years have caught up to him. 34 by seasons end. He's a shell of himself 5v5 and I would rather chalk it up to the punishment he has taken, than accuse him really of checking out. He should have his number retired regardless.

Drury/Laviolette need to have the chat with Kreider and other select veterans (Mika, Trouba obviously) that their roles will be significantly reduced, like others have pointed out Dallas did with Benn/Seguin when their young core started to pop. If they want to save their full effort for the playoffs they can do it by sitting on the bench and letting our 23 year old studs lead the team. The ice time against Calgary was terrible. Lavi is too busy blaming the refs and Drury we havent heard from in ages. Stop being beholden to this core because if they do its a waste of a season. All options would be on the table for me in the summer regarding the vets if they don't at least get to the Finals.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Drury will find a way. Smart money says that Lindgren and Trouba are not Rangers after this season. You might get a couple of day two picks for Lindgren's rights and likely the Rangers will have to pay to deal Trouba unless they retain.

I'd trade Miller too if there was a hockey trade out there for a comparable LHD, but the options I can think of that would fit well are too going to be too expensive or not available. Fox, Schneider, Jones, and Mancini are your core to build around moving forward. I'd identify a midrange #4 LHD to play with Schneider and play money puck to fill the 3rd LHD slot if Miller is parlayed into a center.

Remaking the left side of the defense and finding a long term solution at 3C are the priorities this summer. I see guys like Othmann, Sykora, Edstrom, and Berard being used in a trade to find those players. Perreault is going to make the team next year if the Rangers want him to leave school. At some point, things get too crowded. You have all of those guys plus Rempe fighting for two spots next year.

Isnt Jones the 3rd LHD?

 

[LOFIN]

I mean it's a double edged sword. On the one hand you want Kreider to become the all-time Rangers, which he's on pace to become. On the other hand, you would like the Rangers to give him the Stamkos treatment, showing the organization gives f*** all about players and is all about winning the next game.

But I don't think it's an easy choice. For me, I would keep him because he is literally the best PP guy at his position. On a decent contract too.

But it's also the easiers contract to move if it doesn't work out this season.


Let's not worry about any of this, just jettison Lindgren and get better m'kay?

 

[Tob]

One stray asteroid and all our problems would be solved

 

[Tob]

Retain a milly point 5 and boot trouba to a team that qants him at whatever he makes minus milly 5. There has to be a few teams out there. Dump lindgren to whoever wants free depth and then go and pay a 1st and othmann for the best not old as f*** deadline rental a la choochryn or hanifin from years past and sign to a long term deal then roll jones mancini as $millyplus players. It’s so simple a monkey could do it

 

[lakeshirts37]

Not a Snowflake in Hell chance that Ottawa would do it...maybe if we added Miller and a pick to even it out . Tkachuk does so much more that Laf will never be able to do. It is not all measured in points despite what some think . They just don't understand and likely have never played the game PERIOD . There is not one GM or coach in the league that would not deal Laf for Tkachuk....not one !

I think it would be a lot closer than you think given ottawa’s situation and their respective contracts

Retain a milly point 5 and boot trouba to a team that qants him at whatever he makes minus milly 5. There has to be a few teams out there. Dump lindgren to whoever wants free depth and then go and pay a 1st and othmann for the best not old as f*** deadline rental a la choochryn or hanifin from years past and sign to a long term deal then roll jones mancini as $millyplus players. It’s so simple a monkey could do it

This was annoying to read. that aside, there are no dmen rentals the same quality as chychrun and hanifin unfortunately

 

[McRanger92]

I think it would be a lot closer than you think given ottawa’s situation and their respective contracts


This was annoying to read. that aside, there are no dmen rentals the same quality as chychrun and hanifin unfortunately

Provorov @EdJovanovski

 

[bernmeister]

No, lav should build the PP around fox, laf and panarin and maybe even cuylle the way he is playing.

Kreider is the past. Need to look forward.

Kreider is an all time Ranger, but the years have caught up to him. 34 by seasons end. He's a shell of himself 5v5 and I would rather chalk it up to the punishment he has taken, than accuse him really of checking out. He should have his number retired regardless.

Drury/Laviolette need to have the chat with Kreider and other select veterans (Mika, Trouba obviously) that their roles will be significantly reduced, like others have pointed out Dallas did with Benn/Seguin when their young core started to pop. If they want to save their full effort for the playoffs they can do it by sitting on the bench and letting our 23 year old studs lead the team. The ice time against Calgary was terrible. Lavi is too busy blaming the refs and Drury we havent heard from in ages. Stop being beholden to this core because if they do its a waste of a season. All options would be on the table for me in the summer regarding the vets if they don't at least get to the Finals.

Is Kreider still producing at a sufficiently high level, esp relative to his cap hit?
answer, yes
Is there any objective basis to think that is gonna fall off the cliff anytime soon?
answer, no

true, no one defeats Fr time, but those who stay in peak physical condition can hold that off a bit
I see him doing what it takes to be contributing at 40-ish
not zero, but little chance wheels fall off before then presuming he continues to train hard, etc, which no reason to not think that
when he hits 37-38, then your perspective MIGHT be more valid
but not now

there are no sacred cows
anyone can be dealt
but relative what he delivers vs return, best bet is to keep CK
the only exception might be McAvoy

Is trading Lindgren for a 2nd and 3rd then a 1st for Provorov even an upgrade ?

this boat has sailed b'c you and others did not listen to me and deal earlier when he had value
now he is too beat up
IF LUCKY
max value now IMO is Lindy + 2 lesser picks [2 3rds] for 2 2nds not anytime soon
and that would be a team willing to pay based on injury need/similar

only 3-ish yrs ago, could have gotten around 20-25OA value
but NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
we had to self rent
meanwhile his wear and tear is beyond ridiculous

I would give a low pick to move him now for cap relief and give Mancini mins immediately

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Is Kreider still producing at a sufficiently high level, esp relative to his cap hit?
answer, yes
Is there any objective basis to think that is gonna fall off the cliff anytime soon?
answer, no

true, no one defeats Fr time, but those who stay in peak physical condition can hold that off a bit
I see him doing what it takes to be contributing at 40-ish
not zero, but little chance wheels fall off before then presuming he continues to train hard, etc, which no reason to not think that
when he hits 37-38, then your perspective MIGHT be more valid
but not now

there are no sacred cows
anyone can be dealt
but relative what he delivers vs return, best bet is to keep CK
the only exception might be McAvoy


this boat has sailed b'c you and others did not listen to me and deal earlier when he had value
now he is too beat up
IF LUCKY
max value now IMO is Lindy + 2 lesser picks [2 3rds] for 2 2nds not anytime soon
and that would be a team willing to pay based on injury need/similar

only 3-ish yrs ago, could have gotten around 20-25OA value
but NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
we had to self rent
meanwhile his wear and tear is beyond ridiculous

I would give a low pick to move him now for cap relief and give Mancini mins immediately

No, he isn’t

 

[turcotte8]

One stray asteroid and all our problems would be solved

We don't have the cap space for an asteroid.

 

[EdJovanovski]

 

[grachevsceiling]

Retain a milly point 5 and boot trouba to a team that qants him at whatever he makes minus milly 5. There has to be a few teams out there. Dump lindgren to whoever wants free depth and then go and pay a 1st and othmann for the best not old as f*** deadline rental a la choochryn or hanifin from years past and sign to a long term deal then roll jones mancini as $millyplus players. It’s so simple a monkey could do it

Tob to Drury:

 

[2014nyr]

Couldn’t agree more, and the thing is they may have that in house with Berard if he ever makes it. But yeah the Rangers puck retrieval skills are bottom of the league I would guess and that has to do with not having players who skate well enough but also don’t have the mentality you are talking about.

100% agree berard fits the mold and i'd absolutely give him a look before looking around for external options. i don't think it's about not having guys who skate well enough so much as needing someone who excels in the areas required and is constantly going all out. they aren't the fastest team, but they aren't "slow" or a bad skating team...i see it more as an issue of an ideal lineup being constructed with some diversity in the strengths of it's components.

most teams that win the cup obviously have big names that step up throughout everyone remembers. what tends to get overlooked is each series on their run often having each series heavily impacted by different secondary players. each opponent obviously presents different challenges and vulnerabilities, and it's critical to have depth that gives your roster enough diversity in skillsets to expose them in any given matchup. the top players obviously need to pull their weight, but you have to expect that to be largely offset in a tight series. what you need is depth with the flexibility to give you that marginal advantage against different types of opponents.

outside of tyler motte, who provided the lineup that spark in the few games he wasn't injured, the org has shown no awareness of or interest in adding someone like that. obviously you'd love that type of player to bring the talent of a brayden point, but you need that pace/puckhound menace somewhere. that presence changes a lineup substantially, whether it's 15-25 pts or 100

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Joe: That's right Sam, two tough gritty defensive defensemen that play the game the right way.

"And McDavid scores!"