Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[IDvsEGO]

That we need to generate more 5v5 offense as a whole. Rempe is not helping that. You probably help that by putting a line 3 guy on line 4 but we need more scoring depth to do that. Do you think scoring five goals a game is sustainable?

your response has nothing to do with my question.
You made a comment about the third line, but it was incomprehensible.
The third line is playing 5v5 extremely well, and in a sustainable manner.

 

[Daves a mess]

8 yrs 66 mill for Jake O

 

[bernmeister]

Edstrom has looked great on the 4th line. Which essentially means, solid defensive hockey, good forechecker, and potentially pinning the other team in the zone.
That’s it.
That’s all we ask from our 4th line. To not keep us pinned in our zone.
Rempe does 1 of those things positively. Hes a good forechecker, but he’s a risk for penalties in that situation. He doesn’t do well defensively yet. And so when the puck is in our end, they’re essentially 5v4.

Rempe could grow as a player. But even vesey is a major improvement over Rempe.

sorry, wrong
vesey not a pivot
not a better checker due to lesser reach
not better physical punisher
and has zero upside to dominate
which Rempe does and that should be encouraged/nourished not stiffled

with Bern right next to him....

I get WAY, WAY more right than I get wrong.
will you admit you are wrong for getting that wrong?

Rempe is more liability than asset. And more so than the others. So play him in Hartford until he shows he can help more than hurt. Until the coaches feel comfortable playing him later in games, until he can play a full game without drawing penalties or costing us goals.


Trolls

1. Your hatred for the kid is noted
I disagree on your assessment and recommendation

2. People who disagree w/you are not 'trolls' just b'c they disagree, and ESPECIALLY so when they can back it up
You just don't wanna refute the counter to yr argument

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Jake O at 8.25m/y >>> Shest at 12m/y

 

[TGWL]

NYR need to take back their offer and come back at 9.5

 

[Savant]

your response has nothing to do with my question.
You made a comment about the third line, but it was incomprehensible.
The third line is playing 5v5 extremely well, and in a sustainable manner.

My point was about output. Line 3 has 5 total points. That’s not great. Extra 5x5 offense is going to have to come from somewhere

 

[JohnC]

Sure. Which his positives must outweigh overall for him to be dressed, no?

Surely watching 3 years of Tanner Glass should mean you know better than this.

Dressing and playing terrible players is like a top-3 common trait of basically every hockey coach that’s ever existed.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

It will be crazy if guys like Hellebuyck, Swayman, Oettinger, Sorokin are all making something in the 8s (not to mention Saros 7s) and Shesty is going to get 12...

Yes, Shesterkin is better than those guys IMO. Almost 4m better?

Shesterkin at 12M is nearly the same take home pay as Oettinger at 8.25M.

 

[LOFIN]

Shesterkin at 12M is nearly the same take home pay as Oettinger at 8.25M.

I'm not an expert on American taxes, but even I know taxes don't work that way.

The "no state tax" teams have a slight benefit, but it's not the difference of 4M AAV

 

[IDvsEGO]

My point was about output. Line 3 has 5 total points. That’s not great. Extra 5x5 offense is going to have to come from somewhere

Line 3 is also controlling play where 68% of the expected goals come from them vs their opposition.
That’s a line that will start producing more.
Also 5 points in 3 games isn’t bad. Especially when they’re controlling play.

 

[Ruggs225]

I'm not an expert on American taxes, but even I know taxes don't work that way.

The "no state tax" teams have a slight benefit, but it's not the difference of 4M AAV

Correct, its smaller, but not insignificant.

Someone posted on the mains. Over the 8 years oettinger will keep 3.3m more than Swayman due to taxes.

 

[SA16]

If you count all 8 minors as ALONE (they weren't) and the match, that's 9 times shorthanded in 18 games, 19 if you want to count this season's game played, which I do... I said "Actually Rempe hasn’t put us short handed much." and less than once every two games isn't much for a player who is in the lineup specifically to be a physical presence. And its not EVEN as often as that as at least a few of his minors were matched... So now I am saying YOU are wrong. Hahahahaha.

I don't understand what you are saying. I already told you the minors he took were not matching minors. So, yes, I would could 7 of them as alone. The 8th was matching minors but also included a match penalty on the same play. He has put us shorthanded 8 times so far excluding any additional majors that I didn't look to.

 

[Savant]

Line 3 is also controlling play where 68% of the expected goals come from them vs their opposition.
That’s a line that will start producing more.
Also 5 points in 3 games isn’t bad. Especially when they’re controlling play.

the regular season doesn’t matter. This team still can’t score in the playoffs. If we are platooning Rempe and Brodzinski at one forward spot, it’s far from outrageous to suggest we are going to need more offense. If the internal answer to needing more offense is Brodzinski or Edstrom or Vesey or Rempe or Carrick, etc they need more offense

 

[LOFIN]

Correct, its smaller, but not insignificant.

Someone posted on the mains. Over the 8 years oettinger will keep 3.3m more than Swayman due to taxes.

Which is the equivelant of like 0.5M on the AAV.

And even with that, I wonder how much of this is done with the simple capfriendly style of calculator, which doesn't take into account that you pay taxes to all the cities, states and provinces of your away games, and your taxes are also dependant on where you live etc. Basically, there is absolutely no bullet proof formula to equate the tax difference between teams. And we are not even talking about the other benefits of the market. Probably should add a weather tax to sunshine states as well.

The reason nothing is done about this "issue", is that it isn't really a big issue and none of the solutions are easy.

 

[bhamill]

I actually think that is quite a lot, especially when you consider the fact that he's only on the ice for roughly 6 minutes per game.

He was 2nd worst in the league in terms of net penalties per 60 for players with at least 10 games played. In the playoffs, he was the worst for players with at least 5 games played.

Maybe there is a bias against him, maybe there isn't. It's not really relevant when he's sitting in the box, and we are killing off a penalty. He didn't take a penalty in the one game he has played this year, but he only played 3:40. We'll see if he can stay out of the box more this year.

But I didn't qualify it with TOI, I simply commented how often he puts us shorthanded. It was probably like 6 times in 19 games now... no matter how many times/60 that might translate to, in reality its still only like every third game... to me that's not so often. However as "not so often" is hardly a scientific quantifier, if anyone subjectively considers that once every two or three games "often," "too often" or "astronomically too often," I don't see the point in arguing it as my own "Not too often" is no more than MY subjective opinion as well. I'll reiterate it this way: a player, being iced specifically for his physicality, putting us a man down once every two or three games is "not too often" FOR ME. Hahahaha.

Surely watching 3 years of Tanner Glass should mean you know better than this.

Dressing and playing terrible players is like a top-3 common trait of basically every hockey coach that’s ever existed.

Hahahaha.

I don't understand what you are saying. I already told you the minors he took were not matching minors. So, yes, I would could 7 of them as alone. The 8th was matching minors but also included a match penalty on the same play. He has put us shorthanded 8 times so far excluding any additional majors that I didn't look to.

see above response to GAGline. For most of it.
As for the "matching minors" I did not see where you filtered out instances where they were matching minors, and there certainly were some... But taking you at your word, then he has put us shorthanded just under once every two games... and my opinion still stands: that's not too often. For me. Feel as you wish.

 

[IDvsEGO]

the regular season doesn’t matter. This team still can’t score in the playoffs. If we are platooning Rempe and Brodzinski at one forward spot, it’s far from outrageous to suggest we are going to need more offense. If the internal answer to needing more offense is Brodzinski or Edstrom or Vesey or Rempe or Carrick, etc they need more offense

This is insane commentary that heavily implies you dont understand how to differentiate between what will and will not be repeatable in the playoffs.

What the third line is doing. Is repeatable in the playoffs and translates. The 4th line should not be counted on for any offense, on any team.
If you’re expecting your offense to come from them, you’re going to lose, and might not even make the playoffs.

 

[GAGLine]

But I didn't qualify it with TOI, I simply commented how often he puts us shorthanded.

I know. I added the additional context because I think it is relevant to the discussion.

If he is playing that little per game and taking that many penalties, is he really helping us? We've played 3 games thus far and he has played all of 3:40. I think it's obvious that Lavi likes him, but it's also obvious that he doesn't fully trust him to play a regular shift.

I like the kid and hope he succeeds, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that his penalties are excessive and something he needs to improve on.

 

[bhamill]

I know. I added the additional context because I think it is relevant to the discussion.

If he is playing that little per game and taking that many penalties, is he really helping us? We've played 3 games thus far and he has played all of 3:40. I think it's obvious that Lavi likes him, but it's also obvious that he doesn't fully trust him to play a regular shift.

I like the kid and hope he succeeds, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that his penalties are excessive and something he needs to improve on.

The other way of looking at that context would be to ask if it is relevant that it seems like a lot per 60 if he's only playing minimal minutes. The actual game to game impact is small. (agian IMO)
Sure of course he needs to improve it, and most other aspects of his game. I merely remarked that the team was not shorthanded "too often" because of him. I'm fine with other people thinking its too often, I just don't.

 

[SA16]

I know. I added the additional context because I think it is relevant to the discussion.

If he is playing that little per game and taking that many penalties, is he really helping us? We've played 3 games thus far and he has played all of 3:40. I think it's obvious that Lavi likes him, but it's also obvious that he doesn't fully trust him to play a regular shift.

I like the kid and hope he succeeds, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that his penalties are excessive and something he needs to improve on.

The other issue is I don't think these penalties are a new thing. Just looking at his AHL numbers he played 43 games last year and had PIM (not divisible by 5) in 16 of them. That's a ton of penalties. I'm excluding the ones divisible by 5 since those were likely fights. The year before that was 15/53.

So ~31 times causing his team to be shorthanded in 96 games. That is not good for a depth player who isn't going to play much or help you out on special teams. That's like the equivalent of an additional 5-6 goals against with an 80% PK. It's also a large increase over the alternative when you consider that Brodzinski has 42 PIM in his career and Vesey averages ~20/year.

 

[TGWL]

At 8.25m, Shesterkin is around 1,400,000 more in taxes signing here than in Dallas, per year. Obviously, we don't know signing bonus, and then you'll have to figure out the breakdown on which teams they play, although Dallas is more favorable in that area consider they play multiple games against teams like Nashville, Seattle and Vegas. Add in a living and life style expenses and it's easy to see how much more a player would need to make in NY to match Dallas. With that I still stick with the thought process that it's just too much.

If you say Shesterkin is worth 9.5 in Dallas, than he needs to sign for way over 12.5 to make the difference. (That is obviously dependent on multiple things)

 

[Daves a mess]

sorry, wrong
vesey not a pivot
not a better checker due to lesser reach
not better physical punisher
and has zero upside to dominate
which Rempe does and that should be encouraged/nourished not stiffled


I get WAY, WAY more right than I get wrong.
will you admit you are wrong for getting that wrong?



1. Your hatred for the kid is noted
I disagree on your assessment and recommendation

2. People who disagree w/you are not 'trolls' just b'c they disagree, and ESPECIALLY so when they can back it up
You just don't wanna refute the counter to yr argument

I think this might be the first time I ever "liked" a Bern post. . Especially your troll retort to that poster. Well done.

 

[TominNC]

I this this might be the first time I ever "liked" a Bern post. . Especially your troll retort to that poster. Well done.

Good thing I have him on ignore

 

[CLW]

Correct, its smaller, but not insignificant.

Someone posted on the mains. Over the 8 years oettinger will keep 3.3m more than Swayman due to taxes.

What's the tax code like in Utah...?

 

[haohmaru]

It will be crazy if guys like Hellebuyck, Swayman, Oettinger, Sorokin are all making something in the 8s (not to mention Saros 7s) and Shesty is going to get 12...

Yes, Shesterkin is better than those guys IMO. Almost 4m better?

No, he’s not 4M better. 11x8 should be the Rangers first and last offer.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

That's because we all know that we'll be replacing him with McDavid...

I'd be happy with Kaprizov really.