Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[McRanger92]

Igor wants to be the highest paid on the Rangers surpassing Panarin's $11,642,857 cap hit. This season and next season for Artemi. Punt him out the door when that contract expires when the new CBA begins. $100M salary cap? Perreault on a rookie deal replaces Panarin.

Long way away but I believe Panarin's buyout is very manageable because his base salary was front loaded and he'd only have a year left. That's Igor's extension right there if thats how Drury wants to go. I personally have not forgotten the persistent rumors over the years that Drury and Panarin arent the best of buds. If the Rangers fold again, it's going to be Trouba and Panarin's heads on spikes.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Any #1 centers hitting the open market in the next year or 2?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Any #1 centers hitting the open market in the next year or 2?

McDavid and it’s more likely the NYR sign McDavid than rebuild

 

[SA16]

Long way away but I believe Panarin's buyout is very manageable because his base salary was front loaded and he'd only have a year left. That's Igor's extension right there if thats how Drury wants to go. I personally have not forgotten the persistent rumors over the years that Drury and Panarin arent the best of buds. If the Rangers fold again, it's going to be Trouba and Panarin's heads on spikes.

1. It's not manageable
2. Why are you mentioning a buyout for the player who just came 5th in Hart voting?

 

[Fitzy]

NYR will never actually rebuild at least not in any reasonable timeline I will prob be alive for. Best chance is someone on here wins the Powerball (actually that won’t be enough) or becomes an AI billionaire and buys the team from Dolan. That much should be clear to everyone here after seeing what they did post “letter”

They may not have reebuilt the way we wanted but selling off Nash, Grabner, McDonagh, Hayes, Zuccarello was absolutely the right move.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

1. It's not manageable
2. Why are you mentioning a buyout for the player who just came 5th in Hart voting?

Yeah, I don't get the post either. The buyout is nowhere near manageable, it's actually a moot point. We can only wait out the contract.

I can see a solid bottom pair with lindgren mancini.

Raise Jones' value and trade for a upgrade on D or a pick. Maybe also Lindgren.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

McDavid and it’s more likely the NYR sign McDavid than rebuild

I’d rather they sign McDavid than rebuild.

id be okay with signing Shesty to 8/12 too if McDavid was coming aboard.

Panarin and Trouba off the books, we could afford it .

McDavid
Shesty
Laf
Fox


That’s a winning combo

 

[McRanger92]

1. It's not manageable
2. Why are you mentioning a buyout for the player who just came 5th in Hart voting?

I miss Capfriendly. And if he comes in 5th in the Hart voting again Im assuming he'll have trade value.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

They may not have reebuilt the way we wanted but selling off Nash, Grabner, McDonagh, Hayes, Zuccarello was absolutely the right move.

Absolutely agree. But they won the lottery to get the 2nd overall pick and basically gave a salute on the deck of an aircraft carrier announcing the job was done. Went big in UFA and trade market <18 months after “the letter”.

 

[GAGLine]

This is overwhelmingly likely with or without Igor. Tough to see how the NYR replace 10/93/20 impact in a cap efficient way from here to maintain ‘contender’ status through Igor’s contract.

Well, 93 is here for a while in any case. 10 and 20 are both still playing at a high level and, by virtue of their age, will cost less on their next contracts.

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we will suck once Panarin's and/or Kreider's contracts are up. We're going to spend that 18 mil on players, even if it's not them specifically.

But I do know that this team as currently built isn't going to win with an average goaltender. Saving even 7 mil by swapping out Shesty isn't going to change that overnight. If we have to win while certain guys are still playing at a high level, as many suggest, then we need to keep our goalie. I really don't see an alternative.

Now, if you're of the opinion that this year is our last legitimate shot at the cup and that we should retool/rebuild afterward, I can understand the desire to move on from Shesty. But we all know the Rangers won't be doing that. They are going to be all in until reality smacks them in the face again, at which point they'll do another hurried rebuild and repeat the same process ad infinitum.

 

[McRanger92]

This team is not rebuilding anytime soon. They just pulled off a successful one and are one of the favorites for the Cup right now. We either need to come up with a better term for referring to the next cores window that isnt "rebuild", or I just assume people want us to tear it down and go back to being the Sabres like we were from 2018-2021. No thanks. That's dumber than the guy who said we should buyout Panarin (that was me). The Rangers have long term success in front of them.

 

[NYR94]

EF said on 32T today that Igor and his reps know he’s NYR best player and want to top Panarins 11.6 AAV.

AP got 14.29% of cap when he signed. Igor wants that. 12-12.5 with todays math

 

[bernmeister]

EF said on 32T today that Igor and his reps know he’s NYR best player and want to top Panarins 11.6 AAV.

AP got 14.29% of cap when he signed. Igor wants that. 12-12.5 with todays math

Fine, if bread recognizes he his not gonna sniff a big ??#? from us again b'c
extending the window w/high end youth >>>>> mo $ to aging vets

then he may relent esp if we deal to nearby Jersey for stud young D/prospects

in that case, 11.25 x 8 may be enuf
Otherwise, 11.75 x 8 does it BUT AGAIN NO EFFIN CLAUSES

At some point we’re bidding against ourselves. There are very few (possibly zero) good teams that would offer him this contract in FA. Gs salaries are never comped to elite skaters. Their returns in trades are almost always underwhelming. The position simply is what it is. And the kicker in all of it is we have a clear edge in scouting, developing and coaching Gs. Ignoring all this to placate Igor’s ego just seems silly to me.

Disagree
TOR would imo and they I think do Shesty + Zib + for Nylander + Knies +

As you said, it’s all recency bias and the overemphasis on small sample sizes such as the playoffs that feed into the narrative. Obviously playing well in the playoffs is important, but then you create scenarios like this. Of course Igor is great and one of the best goalies in the world, but he wasn’t even top-10 last season in important goaltending metrics. His buddy sorokin has just as many top-5 seasons in GSAx. Does anyone think he’s as good as Fox or Panarin?

In terms of raw talent Shesty is our best player

Howev, cap mgmt forces issue of how to spread payroll around to field best roster
Single player is HUGE impact, but not enuf all by himself -- McDavid = proof of this

 

[Hire Sather]

People want to buy out Panarin but give the goalie more?

Insane

 

[eco's bones]

But moving him doesn't guarantee moving the entire cap hit. Sometimes you have to eat some cap. Sometimes you have to take a player back. Sometimes, the player is so bad that year, you're going to end up eating more than you'd like. While, yes, Trouba is likely gone, the money saved may not be the full cap hit to use elsewhere.

That's true but the commitment a team would have to take on for one year should make a transaction easier to do and mitigate asset loss moving him. It's not like the guy has no value as a player. He's just not an $8 mil player. He played more like a $4 mil last year and if he's over his injury he might be more like a $5. Also some teams I don't think would mind a hard ass defenseman like him.

 

[effen]

They're gonna self rent Igor and see what happens. Drury doesn't care what his agent says to Elliotte Refrigeratorman and Uncle Larry.

Trouba is also going to have a bounce back year and return a lot more in a trade than you would think. Rare skillset.

 

[TGWL]

EF said on 32T today that Igor and his reps know he’s NYR best player and want to top Panarins 11.6 AAV.

AP got 14.29% of cap when he signed. Igor wants that. 12-12.5 with todays math

I don't know if that's true. But that mindset annoys me. Ask for what you want. Take all the money you can. I have no problem with players trying to get all they can get. I do think it's a little petty to start throwing the, "I am the best player and should be paid the best on the team", talk.

 

[eco's bones]

value to dealing him now vs keeping dealing him later
even if have to eat some of that big #
key are clauses
we can do even13 x 3, 12.25 x 4, but again, club has total flexibility

otherwise, I see Leafs as a taker right now, good return our way

RapLav = yeah, you don't have to, but to just do a free pickup, no reason not to.
Deal Vesey + coupla others and there is room
He is a pivot

When you move someone it's always good to already have a replacement that you know (preferable) rather than think can replace the guy. So that's one issue.

On the money thing. Blah, blah, blah is greedy. A lot of blah, blah, blahs are greedy and not just in sports. I remember back in the day reading Brad Park's Play the man (I know you remember him---by the way dopey Fischler put out an article today comparing Mancini to Park). In that book Park details his 1969 (?) contract battle with Emile Francis. The pretty much consensus second best defenseman in the NHL then (Orr was the best) thought he was worth $15,000 a year and going to stick to his guns too. He was serious about it. Francis wanted to give him $12,500. If I remember they settled somewhere in the middle but how far we have come from then to now......and how far it still will probably go. I mean we should try to imagine ourselves into the future. One day maybe not too far off in this future someone is going to get a billion dollar contract probably starting with baseball but it will get around to everything else eventually which just confirms for me once again that at the end of the day the value placed on things like work and compensation has always and forever been arbitrary and so I really don't give a rats ass how much any of these guys make. I'm more interested in whether the Rangers are going to win another Stanley Cup one day and not in how Dolan or Drury pinch pennies. I don't think we're going to do it with an average goalie and I'm not really f***ing interested in a rebuild either. I'm already 67. We at least know they've enough pieces to get to the conference finals with Igor and if their defense doesn't break down and their top forwards do their job barring a bunch of injuries they could (operative word) do it.

 

[GAGLine]

People want to buy out Panarin but give the goalie more?

Insane

Who is suggesting that?

 

[Hire Sather]

The more I hear about him the more I don't want him.

I don't think this is like Hank. You can't trust him, money seems to be too much of a concern for him.

Does he have the dedication to maintain his elite level of play?

 

[NYR Viper]

The more I hear about him the more I don't want him.

I don't think this is like Hank. You can't trust him, money seems to be too much of a concern for him.

Does he have the dedication to maintain his elite level of play?

I mean so far I would say yes. And Hank was also all about his money. He made plenty throughout his career, and deservedly so.

 

[Hire Sather]

I mean so far I would say yes. And Hank was also all about his money. He made plenty throughout his career, and deservedly so.

I mean he certainly didn't give us a discount but I don't remember him demanding to be the highest paid player on the team

 

[bernmeister]

People want to buy out Panarin but give the goalie more?

Insane

zero reason to buy out bread
trade him if we can, yeah
pay to leave? hell no

 

[bernmeister]

When you move someone it's always good to already have a replacement that you know (preferable) rather than think can replace the guy. So that's one issue.

On the money thing. Blah, blah, blah is greedy. A lot of blah, blah, blahs are greedy and not just in sports. I remember back in the day reading Brad Park's Play the man (I know you remember him---by the way dopey Fischler put out an article today comparing Mancini to Park). In that book Park details his 1969 (?) contract battle with Emile Francis. The pretty much consensus second best defenseman in the NHL then (Orr was the best) thought he was worth $15,000 a year and going to stick to his guns too. He was serious about it. Francis wanted to give him $12,500. If I remember they settled somewhere in the middle but how far we have come from then to now......and how far it still will probably go. I mean we should try to imagine ourselves into the future. One day maybe not too far off in this future someone is going to get a billion dollar contract probably starting with baseball but it will get around to everything else eventually which just confirms for me once again that at the end of the day the value placed on things like work and compensation has always and forever been arbitrary and so I really don't give a rats ass how much any of these guys make. I'm more interested in whether the Rangers are going to win another Stanley Cup one day and not in how Dolan or Drury pinch pennies. I don't think we're going to do it with an average goalie and I'm not really f***ing interested in a rebuild either. I'm already 67. We at least know they've enough pieces to get to the conference finals with Igor and if their defense doesn't break down and their top forwards do their job barring a bunch of injuries they could (operative word) do it.

In the deals I propped, Garand under Quick w/Domingue reinforcement stopgaps and develops
Nylander upgrades Zib
we get good young pieces

Need to remember want to win now, going all in in a given year IS AN ILLUSION
it almost never works in any sport

The smart thing, like I said, is to EXTEND your window w/quality youth

I'm w/you don't give a flying or stationary fig about how much any of these guys make.
I care about how cap impacts reality of roster decisions

And thanks for stroll down memory lane on my fave Rs defenseman ever, Park
I have never and will never forgive Cat F for what he did driving him + Ratelle out just to show he could
eff you EF, eff you

 

[TGWL]

I mean he certainly didn't give us a discount but I don't remember him demanding to be the highest paid player on the team

I don't know how those negotiations went. But Lundqvist was also netting hundred's of thousands or so per year in endorsement deals with Bauer, tag, and others. He was also a large part of the community and the face of the franchise. I'm not saying fans don't love Igor, but Lundqvist was the name in NY, add in his good looks and media availability, everything about NYR had him standing in front.