Roster Building Thread - Part XII(Training Camp/Preseason)

[HatTrick Swayze]

If Igor is going to be that stubborn and insist on getting his number then take him to UFA. Let’s see if another team is willing to go near his asking price. But even if he has an incredible season it’s not going to change much. That’s what I would do but I bet he’s signed.

Haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that Drury won't ultimately cave. Signing him is the path of least risk. Drury will probably grind hard to get it at $11.875M so he can pretend he did something.

 

[Ruggs225]

I still dont understand why people would be ok, especially Drury, with giving Shesty over $10m

Hellebyuck and Sorokin both signed for under 9.

Saros just signed for under 8

In no world is shesty 50% better than those three.

Draistatl signed for $14m and plays all 82 games. Shesty played in 55 last year

Lets be generous and give him 60 games this year which is 73%. If you take draistatls contract and multiply by .73 you end up with $10.2m

so a $10.2m contract would make him highest played player per game if they all played a full season without injury.

Anything over that and u are just dumb. Goalies are not worth it, and shesty is not.

The Price contract was horrible when it was signed and still is to this day. MTL could never field a good team around him so he dragged them everywhere.

I dont go a cent above $10m and truthfully that would be really pushing it.

 

[bernmeister]

If Igor is going to be that stubborn and insist on getting his number then take him to UFA. Let’s see if another team is willing to go near his asking price. But even if he has an incredible season it’s not going to change much. That’s what I would do but I bet he’s signed.

no, that is inviting disaster where he walks and we get zippo

if we can get enuf now DO IT DON'T BE GREEDY
if we have to extend and deal later and juggle salary, lesser of 2 evils

but him walking for nothing is REALLY not smart

when Tavares was still good, he left Isles for Leafs and LI got nada

 

[IDvsEGO]

I still dont understand why people would be ok, especially Drury, with giving Shesty over $10m

Hellebyuck and Sorokin both signed for under 9.

Saros just signed for under 8

In no world is shesty 50% better than those three.

Draistatl signed for $14m and plays all 82 games. Shesty played in 55 last year

Lets be generous and give him 60 games this year which is 73%. If you take draistatls contract and multiply by .73 you end up with $10.2m

so a $10.2m contract would make him highest played player per game if they all played a full season without injury.

Anything over that and u are just dumb. Goalies are not worth it, and shesty is not.

The Price contract was horrible when it was signed and still is to this day. MTL could never field a good team around him so he dragged them everywhere.

I dont go a cent above $10m and truthfully that would be really pushing it.

I think maybe 10.6 is the max I’d be ok with. It lets him reset the market. He’s younger than helleybuck, and he’s had better consistent seasons and more games than sorokin.
He can make arguments that he’s the best goalie in the league. So let him get the highest contract.

 

[bhamill]

Well we went something like 1 for 17 on the power play vs. Florida and ended our playoffs with a 24% power play. Rangers had a power play goal in 1 game out of 6.

Edmonton went 3 for 25 (one of them came on a full two minute taken two man advantage) against Florida and ended their playoffs a 29.33% power play. Oilers had a power play goal in 2 games out of 7.

And looking at that one could say that the Florida penalty kill was a big reason why they won the Cup. It wasn't just the Rangers that had a problem scoring on them on the power play. Edmonton had gone through 3 series pretty much converting on a third of their power plays and did 12% against the Panthers.

Fair point... but we also went 1 for 10 in the last four games against Carolina...

 

[80s Kid]

I still dont understand why people would be ok, especially Drury, with giving Shesty over $10m

Hellebyuck and Sorokin both signed for under 9.

Saros just signed for under 8

In no world is shesty 50% better than those three.

Draistatl signed for $14m and plays all 82 games. Shesty played in 55 last year

Lets be generous and give him 60 games this year which is 73%. If you take draistatls contract and multiply by .73 you end up with $10.2m

so a $10.2m contract would make him highest played player per game if they all played a full season without injury.

Anything over that and u are just dumb. Goalies are not worth it, and shesty is not.

The Price contract was horrible when it was signed and still is to this day. MTL could never field a good team around him so he dragged them everywhere.

I dont go a cent above $10m and truthfully that would be really pushing it.

Shesty is on the ice the entire game. Skaters are not. While I'm not a fan of just giving Shesty a blank check, I do think he's a player that you won't realize how good he is until he's gone.

Personally, I'd probably offer around:
$11m x 8 w/nmc
$12m x 8 w/ntc
$13m x 8 without any clause

The cap is finally going up so this shouldn't look as bad down the road.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Shesty is on the ice the entire game. Skaters are not. While I'm not a fan of just giving Shesty a blank check, I do think he's a player that you won't realize how good he is until he's gone.

Personally, I'd probably offer around:
$11m x 8 w/nmc
$12m x 8 w/ntc
$13m x 8 without any clause

The cap is finally going up so this shouldn't look as bad down the road.

next year is the concern. Yes the cap is going up, but we have Laf and miller to extend. Potentially Lindgren as well.

 

[bhamill]

And somehow it's a guarantee that with a different unit, or just swapping players around will have better success during the most important games? This "Haha, I told you" doesn't work when the other option might be worse.

Again, nobody here is arguing that the powerplay is 100% a shoe in to finish top 3 again, or that a struggling powerplay shouldn't be touched, when struggling.

There are of course no guarantees. But if you have different options to roll out you certainly increase your chances, no?
So when the PP is struggling in the playoffs its okay to "touch" it, but don't prepare some alternatives ahead of time so we aren't just throwing shit at the wall? All I'm advocating is to have options ready to roll in case we have to touch the powerplay... were none of you in the Boy Scouts? "Be prepared." Hahahaha.

Haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that Drury won't ultimately cave. Signing him is the path of least risk. Drury will probably grind hard to get it at $11.875M so he can pretend he did something.

Well if Drury ground hard, I guess he DID do something? hahaha.

 

[TominNC]

Well, no, I didn't. I presumed people wouldn't be daft enough to assume I meant you can win with awful goaltending, as I certainly didn't say that. What you can absolutely do is win with bang average goaltending at half the price of a crazy goalie contract.

You say the cap, but it would be totally disengenious to ignore how much more effective giving these kind of massive cap proportional contracts to D or forwards is than handing it to a goalie. Particularly on a roster already filled with a top heavy / loaded structure, otherwise it might be somewhat less damaging.

You realize that the Rangers currently have a great goalie on a team friendly contract. If they don’t sign Shesty and replace him with an average goalie who might make a little less then they won’t have a whole lot more to spend anyway. And we’ll be worse at goalie.

They might resign him using Trouba’s money and have that same little left over

 

[TominNC]

I still dont understand why people would be ok, especially Drury, with giving Shesty over $10m

Hellebyuck and Sorokin both signed for under 9.

Saros just signed for under 8

In no world is shesty 50% better than those three.

Draistatl signed for $14m and plays all 82 games. Shesty played in 55 last year

Lets be generous and give him 60 games this year which is 73%. If you take draistatls contract and multiply by .73 you end up with $10.2m

so a $10.2m contract would make him highest played player per game if they all played a full season without injury.

Anything over that and u are just dumb. Goalies are not worth it, and shesty is not.

The Price contract was horrible when it was signed and still is to this day. MTL could never field a good team around him so he dragged them everywhere.

I dont go a cent above $10m and truthfully that would be really pushing it.

Draisaitl plays 1/3 of the games he’s in. Shesty play 100% of his. Who plays more?

 

[bhamill]

I'm a believer that an elite goalie is a huge advantage. I think making Igor the highest paid, which he would be at 10.6 million, if fair to both sides. Even 11mil, 400K higher wouldn't bother me. When you get higher than that, things start becoming more negative for me.

 

[TGWL]

There are of course no guarantees. But if you have different options to roll out you certainly increase your chances, no?
So when the PP is struggling in the playoffs its okay to "touch" it, but don't prepare some alternatives ahead of time so we aren't just throwing shit at the wall? All I'm advocating is to have options ready to roll in case we have to touch the powerplay... were none of you in the Boy Scouts? "Be prepared." Hahahaha.


Well if Drury ground hard, I guess he DID do something? hahaha.

I won't pretend like I could say for sure, but my answer would be probably not. This isn't an NFL playbook like we're going to toss out things the PK wasn't expecting and all of a sudden put them on their heals. Trying different things for when we might need them just means we're not playing them that often. Chances are when tossing then together for when we need won't result in a spark and might take longer to get going. How often are we using these units that we're trying in case we need them? I just think you're potentially creating a bigger problem that might even reduce our powerplay success. I'm all for pulling players, units, etc for when they look like total ass. But intentionally changing it up when it's working just to get different looks seems like it'll have the opposite results you're looking for.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I still dont understand why people would be ok, especially Drury, with giving Shesty over $10m

Hellebyuck and Sorokin both signed for under 9.

Saros just signed for under 8

In no world is shesty 50% better than those three.

Draistatl signed for $14m and plays all 82 games. Shesty played in 55 last year

Lets be generous and give him 60 games this year which is 73%. If you take draistatls contract and multiply by .73 you end up with $10.2m

so a $10.2m contract would make him highest played player per game if they all played a full season without injury.

Anything over that and u are just dumb. Goalies are not worth it, and shesty is not.

The Price contract was horrible when it was signed and still is to this day. MTL could never field a good team around him so he dragged them everywhere.

I dont go a cent above $10m and truthfully that would be really pushing it.

Yea I always give some side eye when the Price contract is a reference point. That's really what we want to do here?

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

I still dont understand why people would be ok, especially Drury, with giving Shesty over $10m

Hellebyuck and Sorokin both signed for under 9.

Saros just signed for under 8

In no world is shesty 50% better than those three.

Draistatl signed for $14m and plays all 82 games. Shesty played in 55 last year

Lets be generous and give him 60 games this year which is 73%. If you take draistatls contract and multiply by .73 you end up with $10.2m

so a $10.2m contract would make him highest played player per game if they all played a full season without injury.

Anything over that and u are just dumb. Goalies are not worth it, and shesty is not.

The Price contract was horrible when it was signed and still is to this day. MTL could never field a good team around him so he dragged them everywhere.

I dont go a cent above $10m and truthfully that would be really pushing it.

A few pages ago someone posted a clip from Twitter of Valiquette saying about a year ago he heard that Shesty "hated" the Sorokin contract @ 8.25m so who knows what Shesty is going to be looking for. If 10-10.5 doesn't get it done, I'm extremely hesitant to start negotiations at 11-12+. If he's not taking less than that, he better be putting up 2011 Tim Thomas numbers in perpetuity.

 

[Ruggs225]

Draisaitl plays 1/3 of the games he’s in. Shesty play 100% of his. Who plays more?

Sure but the game isnt played 100% in our side of the ice either. The goalie does nothing when the puck is not in his end.

So its sort of a wash.

 

[bhamill]

I won't pretend like I could say for sure, but my answer would be probably not. This isn't an NFL playbook like we're going to toss out things the PK wasn't expecting and all of a sudden put them on their heals. Trying different things for when we might need them just means we're not playing them that often. Chances are when tossing then together for when we need won't result in a spark and might take longer to get going. How often are we using these units that we're trying in case we need them? I just think you're potentially creating a bigger problem that might even reduce our powerplay success. I'm all for pulling players, units, etc for when they look like total ass. But intentionally changing it up when it's working just to get different looks seems like it'll have the opposite results you're looking for.

Then why would you even touch the powerplay at all when it was struggling if a different configuration would make no difference? Honestly that makes no logical sense to me. I know its not an NFL playbook. I'm talking about having a unit that has worked together ready to roll out, not talking about giving the defense some setup they've never seen before. Hahaha. What's the difference how much time it takes? We arent missing the playoffs, and at the very least we can experiment in games we have a good grip on. Anything is better than NO PLAN.
I mean really, if you have an option, guys who have worked the PP together some during the regular season, who have some familiarity, you don't think that's better than throwing out a unit that HASN'T played the PP together before?
Hey. If that's your view, that's your view. I'm fine if you don't agree with me, but I have to say that makes zero sense to me. I've never seen so much resistance to simple preparedness, I honestly don't get it.

 

[TGWL]

Then why would you even touch the powerplay at all when it was struggling if a different configuration would make no difference?
I mean really, if you have an option, guys who have worked the PP together some during the regular season, who have some familiarity, you don't think that's better than throwing out a unit that HASN'T played the PP together before?

The stance you had was to have different looks even if the powerplay is working. The coach isn't throwing out 5 guys that haven't played together in the playoffs. The couch would be altering the first unit so you're not really getting a unit that hasn't played together. In the suggested scenario, I believe all you're doing is hampering pp1 in hope that it might work out deep in a playoff run. There's no evidence to suggest that it would. So we're just becoming a worse team to maybe be better in big moments? Yes, ideally 5 players who played together is better than 5 players who haven't played together. But that's not what's happening here and those players tend to play together in some way. It's not like we're suggesting tossing out Rempe on PP1 as the random fix come playoffs, should they hit a wall.

 

[TominNC]

Sure but the game isnt played 100% in our side of the ice either. The goalie does nothing when the puck is not in his end.

So its sort of a wash.

That’s like saying “it’s not in Draisaitl’s stick so all his time doesn’t count”

 

[bhamill]

The stance you had was to have different looks even if the powerplay is working. The coach isn't throwing out 5 guys that haven't played together in the playoffs. The couch would be altering the first unit so you're not really getting a unit that hasn't played together. In the suggested scenario, I believe all you're doing is hampering pp1 in hope that it might work out deep in a playoff run. There's no evidence to suggest that it would. So we're just becoming a worse team to maybe be better in big moments? Yes, ideally 5 players who played together is better than 5 players who haven't played together. But that's not what's happening here and those players tend to play together in some way. It's not like we're suggesting tossing out Rempe on PP1 as the random fix come playoffs, should they hit a wall.

Nope. My stance is to have options for when/if the powerplay ISN'T working, particularly in a 7 game series where we don't have time to ride out a slump. The bottom line is having options familiar with executing a powerplay is IMO far superior to just winging it in the playoffs.
I really don't think I've been unclear here. It's nothing more than preparedness. I still don't see how that rubs people the wrong way, but whatever. I don't need to keep repeating the same thing over and over. I'm fine if some people, or even EVERY other poster, thinks its unnecessary or detrimental somehow, but we got bumped from the playoffs the last two years when our powerplay stopped coming through. MAYBE having options MIGHT have been advantageous. I certainly don't see how it could have hurt. hahahaha.
It's all good, we're allowed to see things differently.

 

[TGWL]

Nope. My stance is to have options for when/if the powerplay ISN'T working, particularly in a 7

Saying it like that doesn't change that you're still advocating to try different units, regardless if whatever players being used is working through-out the season. That's the issue I have with it.

We won games because of the powerplay. We probably goes as far as we did in the playoffs because of the powerplay. There's a bigger issue with this team than what happens when the powerplay runs cold, and if you don't address that while potentially scoring less goals/winning less games because we're hindering our good powerplay or try new looks, then it potentially becomes a bigger issue. I also don't think that when you suddenly throw them out in game 7 it's going to net the results you want. But that's fine. We can disagree here.