Roster Building Thread - Part XII(Training Camp/Preseason)

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bhamill

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The painfully obvious thing from yesterday's game is that Kakko is still slow. Cuylle looked like a race car compared to him.
Yeah. The only caveat here is that a lack of confidence makes a player slower, and not just at skating. It robs them of decisiveness so nothing is done with the needed speed. See also: Lafrenierre last preseason. (No I'm not comparing the two players, I'm comparing their circumstances/lack of confidence.)
 
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bhamill

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Igor contract is a nothingburger. He either takes a "discount" the Rangers are comfortable with before the season, or the Rangers match whatever contract he gets from outside the organization when free agency hits. It it's a massive overpay, he can go. Fox and Mika took below market deals. Igor should too. Jalen Brunson did it, hell even Crosby has taken discounts his whole career. If Igor wont, he better win them a Cup this year, because the fanbase and organization will probably be in agreement that at 12m+ AAV goalie isnt worth it after 2 separate Cup windows squandered with a big ticket goalie. It is what it is.
plus there's the whole 8 years vs 7 years thing...
 
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bhamill

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Igor is def signing before opening night. Mika Signed his extension on October 10th. Fox signed his slightly later on November 1st. Beat writers spilling ink on the Igor "situation" because they have nothing else to talk about.
This is likely. and speaking of spilling, some posters will be about ready to open an artery when he gets more than most of us would like to see him get...
 

Kane One

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Igor contract is a nothingburger. He either takes a "discount" the Rangers are comfortable with before the season, or the Rangers match whatever contract he gets from outside the organization when free agency hits. It it's a massive overpay, he can go. Fox and Mika took below market deals. Igor should too. Jalen Brunson did it, hell even Crosby has taken discounts his whole career. If Igor wont, he better win them a Cup this year, because the fanbase and organization will probably be in agreement that at 12m+ AAV goalie isnt worth it after 2 separate Cup windows squandered with a big ticket goalie. It is what it is.
100% this. It’s been pretty clear for a few years now that you don’t need a HOF-level goalie to win the cup. It definitely helps but not if it cripples your cap situation.
 
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DuneGoon84

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QB's are even a poor example, they can affect the game infinitely more than a goalie.

Goalies are like field goal kickers. It's important to have a good one, but it's rare you need a star one (although it helps).

The NHL is all about star studded centers and center depth.
? Yea I don't think so. You need an elite goalie to do anything in playoffs. That's the point. They keep you in games. Either way paying these guys an outrageous percentage of the cap will cripple us.
 

GAGLine

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It's two completely different situations. We're already locked into a core group of players that needs to get better.
They aren't going to magically get better by paying less for a goalie. Panarin, Zib and Trouba have a combined cap hit of about 28 mil, and none of them were worth it in the playoffs.

I'd rather pay the goalie I know shows up and replace those guys. Far easier said than done with Mika, but the other two can be moved. We have to hope that Mika finds his form again.
Cool, we just need to find ourselves a few minor cap-friendly roster finds like Carter Verhaege, Sam Reinhart, and Sam Bennett :sarcasm:
Yes, making smart moves would be a good way to build the team. But when you give one player 11.6 mil before the team is ready to compete, that limits your other options.
 

nyaz11

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Yeah, it's a bit like saying "A lower salary will lower the cap hit". Although what is the minimum contract length for this deferred money thing to work? On one year deals it could be very useful.
If you give Igor 8 years, 88 mill - 11 per.. with 16 deferred to get the cap hit down to 9 per .. like the hurricanes did on Jarvis and Slavin (smaller scale) - he’s not going to say no.

The league will try and fight it. But all the rangers have to do is structure it in bonuses like the players seem to like - if he can’t live on 62 million over 8 years, before a lump sum payout.. then your sales pitch wasn’t very good to begin with.

While it’s allowed, it’s a golden goose for the Rangers. Dodgers did it with Ohtani.. the same thing will happen with Soto this year in baseball.

Until the NHL closes the loop hole, it would be malpractice by Drury and Dolan to not make it work and save 3-4 mill cap wise per year on Shesterkin and Laf.

Literally a dream scenario while they’re cap crunched.
 

n8

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? Yea I don't think so. You need an elite goalie to do anything in playoffs. That's the point. They keep you in games. Either way paying these guys an outrageous percentage of the cap will cripple us.
It's not that simple. If you have an elite d-core with forwards committed to backchecking and really making the opposition pay for every inch, that consistently limits quality chances, a mediocre goalie can be sufficient. When your defense is prone to give aways, can't get the puck out of the zone, and is gifting the opposition multiple high danger scoring chances a game, then you need elite goaltending to keep you in the game. And of course this is a spectrum. We definitely are not the former. Last season we were middle of the pack in terms of allowing high danger shots at 5v5. We're pretty mid / above average. Mid / Above average + Igor / Quick though was good enough to win the regular season. Each part of the team equation played a part.

Yes, making smart moves would be a good way to build the team. But when you give one player 11.6 mil before the team is ready to compete, that limits your other options.
Yes, pretty sure Igor is not going to pull a Jalen Brunson for us.
 

dshea19

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Yeah. The only caveat here is that a lack of confidence makes a player slower, and not just at skating. It robs them of decisiveness so nothing is done with the needed speed. See also: Lafrenierre last preseason. (No I'm not comparing the two players, I'm comparing their circumstances/lack of confidence.)
I don't deny that at all. Regardless of cause, he is just slow. I am just not sure he is going to ever get it here. So different than the player at the World Championships before we drafted him. I am not sure what else they can do for him at this point.
 

McRanger92

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? Yea I don't think so. You need an elite goalie to do anything in playoffs. That's the point. They keep you in games. Either way paying these guys an outrageous percentage of the cap will cripple us.

You don't need an elite goalie, but you need the guy you do have to be playing like one. There are teams that have won with mid-goalies, and there are teams that have won with elite goalies. Both sides will point to these examples to prove their point. To me, its all about dollars and cents.

Igor is a homegrown star goalie. He's not going anywhere if the money is in the ballpark, which it very much appears to be. The NY Rangers are not letting their superstar walk over money with no replacement. And they shouldnt.
 

TGWL

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If you give Igor 8 years, 88 mill - 11 per.. with 16 deferred to get the cap hit down to 9 per .. like the hurricanes did on Jarvis and Slavin (smaller scale) - he’s not going to say no.

The league will try and fight it. But all the rangers have to do is structure it in bonuses like the players seem to like - if he can’t live on 62 million over 8 years, before a lump sum payout.. then your sales pitch wasn’t very good to begin with.

While it’s allowed, it’s a golden goose for the Rangers. Dodgers did it with Ohtani.. the same thing will happen with Soto this year in baseball.

Until the NHL closes the loop hole, it would be malpractice by Drury and Dolan to not make it work and save 3-4 mill cap wise per year on Shesterkin and Laf.

Literally a dream scenario while they’re cap crunched.
For Jarvis to get more, this was what the Hurricanes had to do. For Igor, well, he's a UFA and he doesn't have to do anything like that. So 16m differed is quite a lot to ask for. Are you deferring this several years?

Also, "
  • The compensation needs to be tied to a season in the contract when it is earned. A portion of the contract cannot be just generally deferred; it needs to be a portion of the payment earned during a specific season that is deferred."
I'm not sure how you want to structure it. But let's just say you defer 8m from season 1 to be paid in year 9, you're looking at really only a 600-700ish cap saving per season. You can alter that with bonuses, but I don't think you're going to be able to get 16m deferred with total cap savings.
 

bhamill

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I don't deny that at all. Regardless of cause, he is just slow. I am just not sure he is going to ever get it here. So different than the player at the World Championships before we drafted him. I am not sure what else they can do for him at this point.
I get it. We shall see. I was willing to chalk last year off to a bad start with Zibs/Kreids (who don't seem to mesh with anyone and don't score at a very high rate at EV anyway) and a bad knee injury. This year he needs to put up AT LEAST the numbers he put up the season before, basically scoring at a rate of 0.5 PPG all even strength, for me to hold onto hope that he is anything more than a defensive specialist going forward.
 

kinger8998

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Would love for the Rangers to maximize their potential deadline cap space for a more significant move....pipe dream is Winnipeg falls out of race and moves Ehlers.

Kakko would likely be in deal, obviously with other pieces involved.

He would add some speed and skill either on Kreider and Zibs wing if Smith fails to fit, and Smith would be a nice piece on a 3rd line with Chytil and Cuylle. Or, Ehlers is part of a fantastic 3rd line that can win their minutes.

Hard to get excited for this season, can see another very successful year in regular season. Not sure if repeat Presidents win, think the Oilers will challenge....but once again with this core its their playoff performance that is always a question
 

kinger8998

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It's really a shame Trouba pulled the "won't report" ... Mancini looks really good and although I'm sure another year in Hartford won't hurt him....I'm really high on his game. Think he could have been an improvement this season
 

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