Roster Building Thread - Part XII(Training Camp/Preseason)

[Profet]

Just a reminder:
both Eds AND Rem have the bern seal of approval.

 

[eco's bones]

Besides the fighting I saw some other things I really liked about Rempe last year. His hitting game is outstanding. I haven't seen a player train wreck guys like he does since Bufyglien. The MacDermid and Reaves fights happen because of hits he makes....not because of some prearrangement like the Deslauriers and Olivier fights. New Jersey trades for MacDermid because he runs over Bastian. He wrecks Van Riemsdyk in the playoffs further decimating the Caps defense and turns Wilson down in the third game of the series with the Rangers up 2 games and ahead 2-0. That hit on Van Riemsdyk makes it a lot easier for the Rangers to get past the Caps quickly.

Another thing I like is how he goes to the net and the screens he sets up. Those screens led to a couple goals that he didn't assist on but wouldn't have happened otherwise.

He has more than enough skating speed and a decent amount of agility but skating is still a big issue. Balance doesn't seem to affect him much in fights but he needs to work more awkwardness out and he also needs to work on his play away from the puck particularly in the defensive zone which was subpar last year.

I don't see a good reason to dog a 22 year old who's still finding himself as a player. He was a 6th rounder for good reason when we took him but he's worked hard and made a lot of progress since then and he had some very good moments for us after his call up. Some people I think would rather see the NHL move more towards an Ice Capades kind of entertainment and away from the fighting and physicality altogether. I would say to them never to lose hope--maybe the game will become like that in the future but for now that's a really hard sell for people who were brought up different and who were attracted to the phsyicality and sometimes violence that took root in the game from its beginnings. Like all sports though they're always evolving over time.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Besides the fighting I saw some other things I really liked about Rempe last year. His hitting game is outstanding. I haven't seen a player train wreck guys like he does since Bufyglien. The MacDermid and Reaves fights happen because of hits he makes....not because of some prearrangement like the Deslauriers and Olivier fights. New Jersey trades for MacDermid because he runs over Bastian. He wrecks Van Riemsdyk in the playoffs further decimating the Caps defense and turns Wilson down in the third game of the series with the Rangers up 2 games and ahead 2-0. That hit on Van Riemsdyk makes it a lot easier for the Rangers to get past the Caps quickly.

Another thing I like is how he goes to the net and the screens he sets up. Those screens led to a couple goals that he didn't assist on but wouldn't have happened otherwise.

He has more than enough skating speed and a decent amount of agility but skating is still a big issue. Balance doesn't seem to affect him much in fights but he needs to work more awkwardness out and he also needs to work on his play away from the puck particularly in the defensive zone which was subpar last year.

I don't see a good reason to dog a 22 year old who's still finding himself as a player. He was a 6th rounder for good reason when we took him but he's worked hard and made a lot of progress since then and he had some very good moments for us after his call up. Some people I think would rather see the NHL move more towards an Ice Capades kind of entertainment and away from the fighting and physicality altogether. I would say to them never to lose hope--maybe the game will become like that in the future but for now that's a really hard sell for people who were brought up different and who were attracted to the phsyicality and sometimes violence that took root in the game from its beginnings. Like all sports though they're always evolving over time.

Let me clarify my position so that A. you dont think I'm dogging a 21 year old, and B. so you dont think I want "ice capades"

I dont mind hitting. I dont even hate fighting. I hate the stagged shit, I hate the "we're losing so lets fight" shit. But the fun parts of the game, are the speed, the actual physical play, those are fun to me.

As for Rempe, your evaluation is fairly spot on, if a little generous in terms of "balance needs work"
The problem is that
A. his body control was so poor last year he was putting us down a man frequently on bad hits.
B. He was out of position frequently and not able to read the play.
C. The NHL is not the place for someone to actually develop the skills he needs to be more than a face puncher.
D. there are better players on our team who bring more to a roster (even on the 4th line) than rempe.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Bust

 

[eco's bones]

Let me clarify my position so that A. you dont think I'm dogging a 21 year old, and B. so you dont think I want "ice capades"

I dont mind hitting. I dont even hate fighting. I hate the stagged shit, I hate the "we're losing so lets fight" shit. But the fun parts of the game, are the speed, the actual physical play, those are fun to me.

As for Rempe, your evaluation is fairly spot on, if a little generous in terms of "balance needs work"
The problem is that
A. his body control was so poor last year he was putting us down a man frequently on bad hits.
B. He was out of position frequently and not able to read the play.
C. The NHL is not the place for someone to actually develop the skills he needs to be more than a face puncher.
D. there are better players on our team who bring more to a roster (even on the 4th line) than rempe.

On staged fights there wasn't really a need for Martin vs. Rempe or at least not on Martin's part but that was Martin's doing. When you're asking a kid on his first NHL shift to fight the's probably thinking he doesn't have much choice. The Deslauriers and Olivier fights were also staged and not necessary really. I don't have a huge issue with them myself but they were otherwise just distractions to those particular games. Reaves asked Rempe early in the Toronto game and Matthew said no and it was left there until he crushed Lyabushkin. Clean hit but Reaves wanted some payback then and this is where it gets murky for some people. In Reaves eyes though clean hit or not he's a protector of his teammates and if it were Schneider getting knocked out of a game by Tom Wilson then Rempe would no doubt feel the same way. I don't think everyone gets that but to those guys teammate protection is part of their job description. That's why the fight with MacDermid also happened. That was staged too but that was for a reason.

As far as Rempe last year we all saw what we saw. We're going into a new season and supposedly he's been working hard on his skating over the summer so I'm inclined to wait and see how he looks in camp etc. I'm kind of expecting it won't be as bad. He'll probably need a bit more work though---something like that doesn't just go away overnight.

I also look at him as a 4th liner with 4th line upside. I don't look at more skilled guys like Othmann or Berard like that and I don't want to fill out the bottom line with Julien Gauthier's who had skill, skating etc. but was lost in the role he was given. 4th lines to me are energy lines that can skate and hit and chip in once in a while. A couple of your 4th line guys should be able to pk for you too. I look at Edstrom as a 4th line guy with pretty much 4th line upside too. He's more skilled than Rempe--also a little older and a better overall skater with a pretty good physical game though not a fighter. A main + for Rempe vs. Edstrom is Rempe's hitting game is superior. Edstrom in most other aspects other than the purely physical part is ahead of Rempe. This is where what the coaching staff wants comes into play and right now anyway I think Lavi wants that element that Rempe brings. Personally I like them both.

It takes a lot of different elements to make a good team. Not everyone needs to be a big point producer. You need players who will take on and accept lesser roles than others. To make it with the Rangers a lot of the prospects we have now are going to have to do that. The top two lines and pairings already are pretty much set for this year and down the road a while.

 

[IDvsEGO]

On staged fights there wasn't really a need for Martin vs. Rempe or at least not on Martin's part but that was Martin's doing. When you're asking a kid on his first NHL shift to fight the's probably thinking he doesn't have much choice. The Deslauriers and Olivier fights were also staged and not necessary really. I don't have a huge issue with them myself but they were otherwise just distractions to those particular games. Reaves asked Rempe early in the Toronto game and Matthew said no and it was left there until he crushed Lyabushkin. Clean hit but Reaves wanted some payback then and this is where it gets murky for some people. In Reaves eyes though clean hit or not he's a protector of his teammates and if it were Schneider getting knocked out of a game by Tom Wilson then Rempe would no doubt feel the same way. I don't think everyone gets that but to those guys teammate protection is part of their job description. That's why the fight with MacDermid also happened. That was staged too but that was for a reason.

As far as Rempe last year we all saw what we saw. We're going into a new season and supposedly he's been working hard on his skating over the summer so I'm inclined to wait and see how he looks in camp etc. I'm kind of expecting it won't be as bad. He'll probably need a bit more work though---something like that doesn't just go away overnight.

I also look at him as a 4th liner with 4th line upside. I don't look at more skilled guys like Othmann or Berard like that and I don't want to fill out the bottom line with Julien Gauthier's who had skill, skating etc. but was lost in the role he was given. 4th lines to me are energy lines that can skate and hit and chip in once in a while. A couple of your 4th line guys should be able to pk for you too. I look at Edstrom as a 4th line guy with pretty much 4th line upside too. He's more skilled than Rempe--also a little older and a better overall skater with a pretty good physical game though not a fighter. A main + for Rempe vs. Edstrom is Rempe's hitting game is superior. Edstrom in most other aspects other than the purely physical part is ahead of Rempe. This is where what the coaching staff wants comes into play and right now anyway I think Lavi wants that element that Rempe brings. Personally I like them both.

It takes a lot of different elements to make a good team. Not everyone needs to be a big point producer. You need players who will take on and accept lesser roles than others. To make it with the Rangers a lot of the prospects we have now are going to have to do that. The top two lines and pairings already are pretty much set for this year and down the road a while.

I agree with basically everything you said.
Except that rempe costs the team with bad penalties frequently. unless something changes, he can't / doesn't play in the last 25 minutes of a close game...
That wears a team down.
the ideal is to roll 4 lines, edstrom would let you do that. Rempe does not.

 

[savebyrichter94]

 

[RangersFan1994]

Rangers trade Kakko for
Habs trade Arber and Florian Xhekaj

 

[kovazub94]

I agree with basically everything you said.
Except that rempe costs the team with bad penalties frequently. unless something changes, he can't / doesn't play in the last 25 minutes of a close game...
That wears a team down.
the ideal is to roll 4 lines, edstrom would let you do that. Rempe does not.

I don’t know why you sound so sure of Edstrom’s performance and so unsure (if we had to pick the opposite) for Rempe. I have nothing against Edstrom but let’s look at it from the glass half-full when evaluating Rempe.

Rempe is younger. This by definition gives him more room to develop in all aspects including skating and understanding system structure on the defensive end and speed of game processing.
Prior to joining Hartford Rempe’s experience was only from junior hockey while Edstrom spent 3 years developing in a much better Swedish league. Similarly to the first point the learning curve for Rempe might be steeper because of his prior exposure was at a lower level - I’m not saying it indicates that Rempe will pass Edstrom but he sure could close the gap.
Finally I think their stats so far in the NHL could be seen with little relevance in terms of using them for comparison between these two prospects. Both were held back by the coaching staff but in a different way - Edstrom didn’t see many games while Rempe was dressed for more games but was limited in minutes on ice. Being in the mix from early part of the season should see coaching staff more willing to give Rempe more minutes (less minutes for Edstrom simply because as a 4th liners there wouldn’t be many extra minutes to add to those he was given last season.

 

[LOFIN]

I don't understand why it has to be either Rempe or Edström. Why not both?

 

[bernmeister]

Bust

View attachment 906981

Let's be honest, shall we?
career wise Boo played with multiple concussions, think he had like 4 when he hung them up

So less bust and more of incomplete career

As to nyr career, he was a bottom 6 C but there was a chance he could have chem w/wonder twins, as their pivot but effin Rs mgmt did not even try.

They lose all pts for not trying w/out a good reason

I don't understand why it has to be either Rempe or Edström. Why not both?

both should make team, 4th line to start, Rem also a pivot as is Eds, start Eds at C, Rem at RW

? is who is best LW
would prefer to move on from Vesey

 

[LOFIN]

I mean it really does not matter all that much who plays in the 4th line during the regular season. If we can put two guys there who are big bodies over 6 feet, and one of them is a fan favourite, that's more than most teams can say.

Let's actually worry about the 4th line when we are in the year 2025.

 

[eco's bones]

I agree with basically everything you said.
Except that rempe costs the team with bad penalties frequently. unless something changes, he can't / doesn't play in the last 25 minutes of a close game...
That wears a team down.
the ideal is to roll 4 lines, edstrom would let you do that. Rempe does not.

Whatever issues we had last year with Matthew---in his 17 regular season games the Rangers went 14-2-1. With 5:38 avg. ice time per game he managed to get 50 hits. Double that ice time to a little more than 11 minutes per game and that's 100 hits in 17 games which if prorated for a season would be almost 500 hits. The guy is a wrecking ball and even with his skating issues he makes contact. Edstrom did pretty well too 30 hits in 11 games with a little over 8 minutes per. For me again I want my 4th line committed to their roles and play away from the puck defending and also a hard forecheck are part of that and those two could give us a very hard forecheck even with limited minutes.

As far as some of the calls against Rempe at least 30 of his 71 minutes were for misconducts---two for being tossed from games for hits and the one on Bastian wasn't really a dirty hit---the one on Siegenthaler was and he and MacDermid were tossed as part of the line brawl with the Devils. There were 5 fights for 25 minutes......that's 16 minutes in minors (or 8 minors) some of which (I don't know) may have been matching. But even so the Rangers were winning the games he was in.

Which again brings us to the point of what improvements he's made over the summer which we haven't seen yet. Last year is last year. We start from scratch for 24-25 all over again. He trained with Laraque for 3 days. He worked on his skating apparently a lot. He was working out with Kreider too. We'll see. I'm expecting he'll be better. The Rangers can send him to Hartford all season long without him going on waivers. My guess is if he could go on waivers most NHL teams would be very interested.

 

[Roo Returns]

Whatever issues we had last year with Matthew---in his 17 regular season games the Rangers went 14-2-1. With 5:38 avg. ice time per game he managed to get 50 hits. Double that ice time to a little more than 11 minutes per game and that's 100 hits in 17 games which if prorated for a season would be almost 500 hits. The guy is a wrecking ball and even with his skating issues he makes contact. Edstrom did pretty well too 30 hits in 11 games with a little over 8 minutes per. For me again I want my 4th line committed to their roles and play away from the puck defending and also a hard forecheck are part of that and those two could give us a very hard forecheck even with limited minutes.

As far as some of the calls against Rempe at least 30 of his 71 minutes were for misconducts---two for being tossed from games for hits and the one on Bastian wasn't really a dirty hit---the one on Siegenthaler was and he and MacDermid were tossed as part of the line brawl with the Devils. There were 5 fights for 25 minutes......that's 16 minutes in minors (or 8 minors) some of which (I don't know) may have been matching. But even so the Rangers were winning the games he was in.

Which again brings us to the point of what improvements he's made over the summer which we haven't seen yet. Last year is last year. We start from scratch for 24-25 all over again. He trained with Laraque for 3 days. He worked on his skating apparently a lot. He was working out with Kreider too. We'll see. I'm expecting he'll be better. The Rangers can send him to Hartford all season long without him going on waivers. My guess is if he could go on waivers most NHL teams would be very interested.

Let's see what Rempe did this summer. He was very effective in that Caps series. Huge goal, knocked TVR out of the playoffs, and limited Oshie.

 

[noncents]

It's wild people don't think Rempe will be heavily/primarily used to match up against teams with goons. If Edstrom & Co. are demonstrably better, they will play and Rempe will sit. If they can't beat out Rempe by playing half-decent hockey, that's probably not someone I'd want on the team full-time anyway.

what about the way this team is run makes you think that Rempe will sit even if demonstrably better? It's just the same ol "coach knows best" circular logic:

If he's not playing over Rempe, he must not be earning his spot. If he's not earning his spot, he shouldn't play over Rempe!

dude we saw Edström play and play well. Played big, brought an edge, and actually had hockey talent. Meanwhile Rempe concussed Bastian and fought Matty Martin. that's what we went with.

 

[noncents]

I don't understand why it has to be either Rempe or Edström. Why not both?

because they will not play two rookies on a 4th line. It simply will not happen.

 

[LOFIN]

because they will not play two rookies on a 4th line. It simply will not happen.

Yeah well, they also won't break up Kreider and Zibanejad. Doesn't stop us thinking what this team could look like with competetent lines.

 

[eco's bones]

For the sake of historical accuracy and looking back last year at Rempe's prison time he put the Rangers on the penalty kill 4 times in 17 regular season games. The 5 minute majors for the Bastian and Siegenthaler hits and the Bastian penalty was kind of iffy IMO. He also took a tripping (on Pinto) in a game against Ottawa and a trip (on Luostarinen) in a game against Florida. His 5:38 ice time was definitely affected by the three game misconducts he got. He played 13 seconds in the NJ game he hit Bastian and 2 seconds in the line brawl game when he fought MacDermid.

His trips to the penalty box were frequent but the number of penalty kills he put the Rangers on not so much.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

I don't understand why it has to be either Rempe or Edström. Why not both?

I think we see this midseason, which is gonna piss some people off. Right or wrong Edstrom needs to beat out the Brod and Jimbone.

Also another half year getting top mins and being the guy in Hartford is not the worst thing for his development. Or he beats them in training camp and gets the spot. It's win-win

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

what's funny about Rempe's inevitable roster spot written in pen is that they're not going to play Edström, who they'll likely lose for nothing.

Edström is a big lunch pail defensive forward who can skate like the wind, take the body, score a dirty goal every now and then, and generally make life miserable for the opponents. He'll never see a regular shift for this team because Matt Rempe is what they prioritize.

Yeah, this. And Edström seems like he understands how to play a winning 5-on-5 game. And he can forecheck well - he can make the box-out play on the boards to dispossess the opponent.

But it's not clear the Rangers value or even recognize this stuff. Prove me wrong, guys!

 

[bernmeister]

because they will not play two rookies on a 4th line. It simply will not happen.

wrong

 

[BBKers]

If Edström and one more player (let's say Othmann but it could be Berard, Sykora or even Erne) make big camp impressions, does anyone think the Rangers would entertain trading Vesey to somewhere like Utah [with 3 2nd rounders in 2026] ? I know depth is good to have. And Vesey checks most boxes, is a good road Warrior making small money. I think he would add a bit of necessary things on on that Arizona diaspora tribe too. But Drury might want to load up on draft capital for the deadline this year if he sees that there are ample, developing regular season solutions available in house. It would also mean the Rangers get pretty good value for a nondrafted player. A 3rd to Buffalo plus a 2nd from Utah. That's almost a late first rounder. I would just hope Vesrys wife is Ok with SLC and is not a medical student

 

[Mugless]

Edstrom-Rempe-Vesey

It's not rocket surgery.

 

[MrAlmost]

You're 4th line and 13th will be:
Edstrom-Carrick-Vesey/Rempe

If someone else makes an impression, Othmann, then you might see Kakko on his way out if he doesn't look to have changed anything.

If kakko looks good, doubt it, and someone else steps up then Edstrom or Rempe will start in Hartford. Likely Rempe.

Not really a crazy scenario.

 

[SA16]

If Edström and one more player (let's say Othmann but it could be Berard, Sykora or even Erne) make big camp impressions, does anyone think the Rangers would entertain trading Vesey to somewhere like Utah [with 3 2nd rounders in 2026] ? I know depth is good to have. And Vesey checks most boxes, is a good road Warrior making small money. I think he would add a bit of necessary things on on that Arizona diaspora tribe too. But Drury might want to load up on draft capital for the deadline this year if he sees that there are ample, developing regular season solutions available in house. It would also mean the Rangers get pretty good value for a nondrafted player. A 3rd to Buffalo plus a 2nd from Utah. That's almost a late first rounder. I would just hope Vesrys wife is Ok with SLC and is not a medical student

In what world is Jimmy Vesey getting a second round pick in return?