Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XI

[JimmyG89]

For Quinn, benching Shattenkirk is easy. He has the longest relationship with him. They talked about it. Gives Quinn a vet he can sit and not be the bad guy. He comes in and sits Staal, who has been here forever and it definitely sends a message out there, but it could be a bad one too.

Shattenkirk doesn't have a letter. He's coming off not playing for 10 months. He hasn't played great. Easy decision to sit him. ADA and Pionk have been good too. Get them both out there. Shattenkirk comes back in and plays in the next one.

 

[Webster]

For Quinn, benching Shattenkirk is easy. He has the longest relationship with him. They talked about it. Gives Quinn a vet he can sit and not be the bad guy. He comes in and sits Staal, who has been here forever and it definitely sends a message out there, but it could be a bad one too.

Shattenkirk doesn't have a letter. He's coming off not playing for 10 months. He hasn't played great. Easy decision to sit him. ADA and Pionk have been good too. Get them both out there. Shattenkirk comes back in and plays in the next one.

Well said.

 

[Tob]

Marc Staal is completely immune to all accountability and criticism. Media doesn't write a word on Staal's deteriorating skating or his reach and swipe defense. They don't ask about it during pressers and Quinn praises Staal for the veteran that he is every chance he gets. The players don't talk about it. Management doesn't talk about it. No one is even acknoledging that he's the worst defenseman on the team. How can Staal be scratched under these circumstances? If another hockey player plays like Staal and makes as many mistakes and stands around uselessly while we're being scored on, there'd be accountability within the game like what happened with Shattenkirk but no. No because he's a defensive defenseman and he obviously knows what he's doing otherwise we'd have to acknowledge that this 13 year veteran is washed up and unfitting of an NHL roster spot. If you're any part of this organization, you fall under the same pressure to ignore Staal's incompetence. People talk about trading Henrik and management asked him last spring if he wanted to waive and go somewhere else yet no word on getting Staal to waive and go elsewhere. The dissonance has created a rift in the reality that makes everyone look away from the obvious problem in the room. Vigneault would rather lose in the playoffs and forfeit a legitimate shot at the Stanley Cup than acknowledge it. Henrik would rather retire without a championship than acknowledge it. It would take a cosmic power of unknown origins to disrupt this dissonance.

 

[Off Sides]

If they benched Staal and the D as a whole played better including whoever would have been paired with Staal, I think that sets them up for an awkward situation they just do not want to be in.

 

[Edge]

I can't help but feel that we're blending the reasons and focus of the Shattenkirk conversation with the frustrations of the Staal situation.

While there's some overlap there, I can't help but feel they are also somewhat independent of one another.

 

[Off Sides]

Marc Staal is completely immune to all accountability and criticism. Media doesn't write a word on Staal's deteriorating skating or his reach and swipe defense. They don't ask about it during pressers and Quinn praises Staal for the veteran that he is every chance he gets. The players don't talk about it. Management doesn't talk about it. No one is even acknoledging that he's the worst defenseman on the team. How can Staal be scratched under these circumstances? If another hockey player plays like Staal and makes as many mistakes and stands around uselessly while we're being scored on, there'd be accountability within the game like what happened with Shattenkirk but no. No because he's a defensive defenseman and he obviously knows what he's doing otherwise we'd have to acknowledge that this 13 year veteran is washed up and unfitting of an NHL roster spot. If you're any part of this organization, you fall under the same pressure to ignore Staal's incompetence. People talk about trading Henrik and management asked him last spring if he wanted to waive and go somewhere else yet no word on getting Staal to waive and go elsewhere. The dissonance has created a rift in the reality that makes everyone look away from the obvious problem in the room. Vigneault would rather lose in the playoffs and forfeit a legitimate shot at the Stanley Cup than acknowledge it. Henrik would rather retire without a championship than acknowledge it. It would take a cosmic power of unknown origins to disrupt this dissonance.

It's like seeing if they are going to talk about DeAngelo as part of the developing prospects without someone asking them directly.

 

[Tawnos]

I can't help but feel that we're blending the reasons and focus of the Shattenkirk conversation with the frustrations of the Staal situation.

While there's some overlap there, I can't help but feel they are also somewhat independent of one another.

Mostly, they are. It sounds a little ridiculous, but Shattenkirk isn't really being benched for poor play.

 

[Avery16]

I think because this isn't a situation where he's looked poor and slipped down the lineup as a result.

He's looked good. This strikes me more as Quinn doing serious line juggling. Plus, Quinn has stated he doesn't see this roster as having a 4th line. It's not like Chytil is playing with McLeod and Glass. He's playing with Namestnikov and Lettieri. That line isn't a 4th line in the way more people traditionally think of it.

And if Chytil gets similar 5v5 ice time and the same PP time, then who cares what number line he's on?

My god, just the thought of a Glass-McLeod-ANYONE line takes me back to those horrible pre-lockout days

 

[Levitate]

Mostly, they are. It sounds a little ridiculous, but Shattenkirk isn't really being benched for poor play.

Honestly I think it kind of looks bad when he's supposed to be the PP QB offensive defenseman score a ton of points guy and has struggled to do that and then DeAngelo comes in and outplays him and scores several points in 1 game and looks better running the point.

I think there's a bit of a wakeup call to it all

Also, was it the Buffalo game where the Rangers were trying to find the equalizing score in the final minutes, had the man advantage and Shattenkirk twice put a shot from the blueline directly into the defender in front him and turned the puck over? Like...dude, that's a high risk play right there and you have possession and a man advantage, just put the puck in deep to a teammate instead of forcing a shot through, and definitely don't do it twice.

Guy isn't playing very sharp yet

 

[Edge]

My god, just the thought of a Glass-McLeod-ANYONE line takes me back to those horrible pre-lockout days

God bless Brent Fedyk, Tim Sweeney, Jeff Toms and the rest of the players in the Rangers HockeysFuture Hall of Fame.

The checks are in the mail fellas, and you can pick up your rings from the gumball machine over there --- after you deposit a quarter.

 

[Fireonk]

Benching Staal doesn't really accomplish much because its not like a wakeup call will cause him to elevate his game. He is what he is. There also isn't any LD sitting on the sidelines waiting for an opportunity.

Benching Shatty does give a chance for that wakeup calls and allows ADA to get playing time.

 

[Tawnos]

Honestly I think it kind of looks bad when he's supposed to be the PP QB offensive defenseman score a ton of points guy and has struggled to do that and then DeAngelo comes in and outplays him and scores several points in 1 game and looks better running the point.

I think there's a bit of a wakeup call to it all

Also, was it the Buffalo game where the Rangers were trying to find the equalizing score in the final minutes, had the man advantage and Shattenkirk twice put a shot from the blueline directly into the defender in front him and turned the puck over? Like...dude, that's a high risk play right there and you have possession and a man advantage, just put the puck in deep to a teammate instead of forcing a shot through, and definitely don't do it twice.

Guy isn't playing very sharp yet

There's no doubt he hasn't played well. I guess I should put it this way. Poor play is a symptom of a problem. He's not sharp, you're right... but the question is whether that's rust, normal performance variance, or a focus problem? To me, if it were either of the first two, he wouldn't be scratched.

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Benching Staal doesn't really accomplish much because its not like a wakeup call will cause him to elevate his game. He is what he is. There also isn't any LD sitting on the sidelines waiting for an opportunity.

Benching Shatty does give a chance for that wakeup calls and allows ADA to get playing time.

Hajek should be playing in Staal's spot.

 

[Edge]

Hajek should be playing in Staal's spot.

I think we'll get to that point --- probably sooner than most realize.

But I don't think Hajek is quite there, yet.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I guess I view it as more of a message being sent than a direct indictment of Shattenkirk.

And because of his experience with Shattenkirk, I'm sure his belief is that Shattenkirk is more likely to "get it" than Staal and that the potential impact on the team is greater.

I just think this move is more nuanced than it appears on the surface.

Fair point.

A player who is fighting it is one thing. But Shattenkirk's issue has seemed to me to be more one of engagement, rather than one of rust or the ups and downs that all players go through over the course of a season.

Another fair point.

 

[Levitate]

I think we'll get to that point --- probably sooner than most realize.

But I don't think Hajek is quite there, yet.

I dunno what management is going to have to end up doing with some of these vets on defense as the young players they acquired start pushing for a roster spot. Skjei, Smith, Staal down the left...does Smith end up getting benched again because they want to lean on Staal as a veteran? Does Staal get bought out? Do they both get traded sooner rather than later?

Part of the "problem" with acquiring these players who are close to making the NHL (DeAngelo, Hajek, Rykov) is that you have to be ready to open up spots for them. Obviously you don't want to just dump all your vets right away but the contract situation of Staal and Smith in particular make future moves a bit unclear.

 

[Tawnos]

I dunno what management is going to have to end up doing with some of these vets on defense as the young players they acquired start pushing for a roster spot. Skjei, Smith, Staal down the left...does Smith end up getting benched again because they want to lean on Staal as a veteran? Does Staal get bought out? Do they both get traded sooner rather than later?

Part of the "problem" with acquiring these players who are close to making the NHL (DeAngelo, Hajek, Rykov) is that you have to be ready to open up spots for them. Obviously you don't want to just dump all your vets right away but the contract situation of Staal and Smith in particular make future moves a bit unclear.

Yeah... I mean this is definitely a "cross that bridge when you come to it" situation.

I always go back to how McDonagh came up because of an injury to Roszival and Rozy was traded pretty much before he had a chance to re-establish himself in the lineup.

 

[Kovalev27]

Look his errors are the most egregious but if you look at usage staal is usually last in toi. He’s the 6th dman and he’s going to be all year there’s no getting around it. But Next year you gotta force him into the 7th spot. You can afford to carry him there and play him here and there. But you gotta have the balls to do it. Can’t buy him out till the following year. Too big a hit otherwise and more importantly you can’t block a Libor Hajek at that point. He’s gotta play. He’s 20 now and can use some ahl time but next year he’s gotta play and staal has gotta sit.

Smith I think can be serviceable for the next year or two worst case but the best thing that can happen is he plays well and we have the ability to trade him this year or next. And at this point the same probably holds true for Shattenkirk. He’s not a long term option here based on age and contract and where we are as a team so if he can build his value up he is movable. Teams always want right shooting dmen that can run a pp.

McQuaid I don’t worry about he’s movable at the deadline or we bring him back on a one year deal.

None of these issues are severe but staal is the one that has to be dealt with by this time next year the latest.

 

[Edge]

I dunno what management is going to have to end up doing with some of these vets on defense as the young players they acquired start pushing for a roster spot. Skjei, Smith, Staal down the left...does Smith end up getting benched again because they want to lean on Staal as a veteran? Does Staal get bought out? Do they both get traded sooner rather than later?

Part of the "problem" with acquiring these players who are close to making the NHL (DeAngelo, Hajek, Rykov) is that you have to be ready to open up spots for them. Obviously you don't want to just dump all your vets right away but the contract situation of Staal and Smith in particular make future moves a bit unclear.

It's hard to say, and I don't have a clear answer.

If I was on the spot, and it was up to me, I'd say Staal transitions to the 7th spot this season. Serves in the role next year, and goes to the minors in his final year.

Smith probably sticks in the NHL and is eventually swapped for a similar salary and contract at forward, if he remains in the NHL.

 

[NYR713]

For Quinn, benching Shattenkirk is easy. He has the longest relationship with him. They talked about it. Gives Quinn a vet he can sit and not be the bad guy. He comes in and sits Staal, who has been here forever and it definitely sends a message out there, but it could be a bad one too.

Shattenkirk doesn't have a letter. He's coming off not playing for 10 months. He hasn't played great. Easy decision to sit him. ADA and Pionk have been good too. Get them both out there. Shattenkirk comes back in and plays in the next one.

Also, continuing on that relationship they have, Quinn benches him and Shatty comes out publicly positive about it and how he's no better than anyone else and has to fight for his spot... all in the plans. Also in the plans, I believe, is that happens because Quinn plans on benching Staal and a few others soon and knew he could work with Shatty to lead the way by taking it in stride. FO is in on this shit too.

Set the playing field early.

 

[RangerBoy]

This is Shattenkirk's buddy from STL.

Shattenkirk hasn't been very good. He played 7 minutes because it was a back to back situation and Shattenkirk had major knee surgery in January. He was also on ice for 2 goals against in those 4 minutes at even strength and badly misplayed both situations.

Hayes hasn't been very good either. The Rangers want him to skate and move his feet. Play physical.

Namestnikov has been terrible since day one of camp.

 

[Tawnos]

Namestnikov has been terrible since day one of camp.

I thought Namestnikov looked good in his limited shifts on Sunday. Otherwise, I agree.

 

[Levitate]

Quinn praised Namestnikov after last game though

 

[Kovalev27]

That was probably namestnikov best game since coming here. Outside of his first one. Not saying much though. Looked like he actually cared about being in the NHL for once.