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Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

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GAGLine said:
What do people think of this idea?

Trouba (3.5 mil retained for 2 years)

for

Jeff Skinner (4.5 mil retained for 3 years)

This would result in Skinner costing us 8 mil for 2 years and then 4.5 mil in the 3rd year.

Trouba would cost Buffalo 9 mil for 2 years, after which they'd have a cap hit of 4.5 mil for 1 year.

Buffalo gets a veteran leader who can add some size and physicality to their defense while saving 4.5 mil in the 3rd year.

The Rangers take on an extra 4.5 mil 3 years from now, but they get a player who may be a fit in the top 6.

We could also potentially expand the deal to include Goodrow (1 mil retained) for Jokiharju.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
This feels oddly realistic. Would have to force him to play on the right wing. I cringe at the idea of putting him with Kreider/Mika but that's probably where he would go.

Personally prefer to buy out trouba or trade him at 50% for nothing and sign JAM, if possible.
 
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Guyute said:
Any chance the Leaves (or Trouba) would consider Trouba, Kakko, and Cuylle for Marner and Liljegren?

Kreider-DJ Mika-Marner
Panarin-Trochek-Laf
Othmann-Chytil-Berard
Edstrom-cheaper 4C-Rempe
Brodzinski

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Schneider
Jones-Liljegren
M. Staal (lol)

Igor
Quick

If Mika and Kreider can’t score at 5v5 with Marner, god help us
Click to expand...
I imagine Trouba has all Canadian teams on his NTC list, so I put this at no chance. Also curious if you are expecting to extend Marner and how does the cap add up with Laf, Shesty, Miller, Rempe, and Jones extensions in 2025.
 
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Bacon Artemi Bravo said:
This feels oddly realistic. Would have to force him to play on the right wing. I cringe at the idea of putting him with Kreider/Mika but that's probably where he would go.

Personally prefer to buy out trouba or trade him at 50% for nothing and sign JAM, if possible.
Click to expand...
Skinner plays both wings, so that wouldn't be an issue.

I'm not totally in love with the idea because we have wingers who will need a spot sooner rather than later (Othmann, Berard, Perreault), but if we wanted to dump him after 1 year, we could potentially trade him (4.5 mil cap hit for 2 years) or buy him out (4 years at 2 mil, 3 mil, 1 mil and 1 mil).

If we end up trading Kakko at some point between now and next summer, maybe we keep Skinner for 2 years and then trade or buy him out.
 
Filthy Dangles said:
These descriptions and numberings (he's a #4-5 etc.) don't mean anything.

Zadorov played 3rd most minutes for Vancouver on the backend and was their best defenseman in the playoffs. He wouldn't be asked to drive the bus paired with Fox obviously, he wouldn't be asked to do anything on the PP obviously, and he'd probably be the 2nd/3rd rotation on the PK.

If he carries over his play from this last season, no doubt he'd be a pretty big positive on the "top pair" with Fox.
Click to expand...
He's 29, no one wants to give ufa contracts to older player but we want to pay a 29 year old that found success last year playing 17:04 per game?

And that 17:04 per game was the second lowest minutes per game of his career since 2015?

He just had the best 13 game spurt of his career just as he's walking to ufa and some people want to fail for that hook bait and sinker.

You want to sign him to play with your #1 d man on your top pair as a 29 year old ufa that is going to land a fairly significant contract if he gets to ufa? 6x6 is being reported...

And yes, there is a top pair and 4 other d, bc your top pair specifically includes a team's #1 d. The spot next to the #1 d isn't a revolving door in season, or at least it shouldn't be.

Asking zadarov to do that is setting him up to fail here.

bobbop said:
Kreider is slow?
Click to expand...
He absolutely plays slow as does mika. His speed comes in small spurts on breakaways and such, but it is terribly underutilized and at 33 years old I think it's a little foolish to no expect his overall speed to begin to diminish soon, no?
 
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bleedblue94 said:
He's 29, no one wants to give ufa contracts to older player but we want to pay a 29 year old that found success last year playing 17:04 per game?

And that 17:04 per game was the second lowest minutes per game of his career since 2015?

He just had the best 13 game spurt of his career just as he's walking to ufa and some people want to fail for that hook bait and sinker.

You want to sign him to play with your #1 d man on your top pair as a 29 year old ufa that is going to land a fairly significant contract if he gets to ufa?

And yes, there is a top pair and 4 other d, bc your top pair specifically includes a team's #1 d. The spot next to the #1 d isn't a revolving door in season, or at least it shouldn't be.

Asking zadarov to do that is setting him up to fail here.


He absolutely plays slow as does mika. His speed comes in small spurts on breakaways and such, but it is terribly underutilized and at 33 years old I think it's a little foolish to no expect his overall speed to begin to diminish soon, no?
Click to expand...
Oddly I feel like Kreider only uses his speed to his benefit on the PK for quick breaks / rushes with Mika. He's always underutilized it.
 
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jay from jersey said:
This is my biggest area of concern currently.
The D will work itself out in time.
Trouba on borrowed time
Lindgren likely stays barring significant upgrade for not a ton of $$…
Not sure when or where that guy comes from, but there’s no clear cut front runners atm.
Best case, he signs a reasonable deal and returns to form. They can look to trade him a year or 2 down the line. Similar to Zibby ( but Zibby ain’t moving at all)

Chytil can’t be trusted to play 60 games, let alone a whole season and long playoff run. He should be moved to wing permanently.

Barring any unforeseen trades or players the FO is targeting….

Stephenson- best of the bunch. 2 time cup winner with speed. Didn’t have a typical year for him last season so it might affect his contract, but he’s going to want a long overdue raise.
Can give you 50pts+ and play up in the line up if needed to.

Trenin-he’s a beast. Solid with the puck, can chip in on offense, hits everything, and has a mean disposition. Maybe better suited for 4th line duty?

Ross Colton- local kid.. looking for a raise and Aves likely lose him cause of it.
Not a defensive stalwart like Wennberg, but he has no problem shooting the puck and shooting a lot.
He also doesn’t shy away from the physical play either

Laughton-we’ve seen him a bunch in division. Hes a solid player that’s going to require a high price from a division rival.

Blueger-maybe better suited for 4th line duty, but plays a hard nosed 2-way game and adds some offense…. Imo, he’s going to be paid more then he’s worth…

That all the possibles so far, feel free to add.
Click to expand...
And to me none of these really do it for me bc at ufa they will most likely be getting significant pay. NYR is stuck bc they need depth and d and c and those are the positions that are usually the hardest to find and most expensive to trade for.

jay from jersey said:
It’s not out of the realm of possibility though…,.
In the last 3 years, they have been to the ECF twice, last season winning the prez trophy….
I don’t expect to finish 1st again, or Panarin to put up 120, or even Tro to be a PPG guy

But what this team has here in place now, is enough to consider them in the upper echelon of the eastern conference.
Our young guys 26 and under crowd, should all be a year better, older, more experience, etc
Shesty is in his prime for another 5 seasons or so.

Kreider/panarin/zibby/tro are all far from being washed up.

And they have enough ammo to add at the TDL, and just enough cap space to add another solid player in the offseason.

A healthy Fox and 90pt zibby from a year or 2 ago likely gets us past the panthers and in to the dance….

It’s really hard to keep teams cores intact nowadays…. This team should have another season or 2 look with relatively the same personnel.

It’s up to Drury to fix what needs fixing.
Click to expand...
I feel like this was the same line of thinking after 2015, sometimes you just need to see what's not there and accept it.
 
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Savant said:
We aren’t really talking about Jeff Skinner right?
Click to expand...
It was an idea to dump Trouba.

Skinner had a down year and still managed 24 goals and 46 points in 74 games. The two years prior he put up 68 goals and 145 points in 159 games.

Skinner has been a very up and down player in his career, but the guy can still skate and he always kills us. He has the reputation as being a lot worse than he actually is.

If we can find a way to move Trouba without taking back a similar cap hit, I'm all for it. I just don't see a lot of options out there.
 
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In all likelihood Tuba probably carries more value around the league than his perceived value on here. Who knows whether he's even on the table or not. Either way, a trade will likely come with some retention. Almost every big money trade recently has carried some minor retention. Probably eat a million or 2 of his cap hit.

I've already made a post like this before but f*** it.

I keep going back to Dallas. Trade partners in the past. They have +16 million in cap space this summer. Their forward group is already dynamite. Pavelski is retiring and Duchene is a UFA, they both had lackluster playoffs anyway. Stankoven will likely be a full time NHLer next season, Mavrik Bourque is knocking on the door. They have absolutely nothing at right D, that's not an exaggeration. They're forced to play Heiskanen on his weak side. Dallas had to bring in Tanev at the deadline because there was so little depth on the right side. They had zero legitimate top 4 RHD. The left side is fantastic though, Heiskanen, Harley and Lindell. Where does that leave the big 20 year old Lian Bichsel? 6'6, physical, solid puck skills and skates well. I think in all likelihood they probably view him as a future replacement for Lindell and will continue to play someone on their off-hand. But who knows, maybe they'd feel more immediate help could put them over the hump. Might be an opportunity for a trade there. Again, I don't think any team loves the idea of having a bunch of defenders playing their off-hand.

Detroit has a boatload of cap space. They have a bunch of prospects and picks. Seider/Tuba is a mean 1-2 punch. I doubt any blue chips will be on the table but William Wallinder would still be plenty interesting. Another one of these big "modern" defenseman who have good tools and skate well

Nashville is another team with a boatload of cap space, a boatload of assets and a weak right side. Seems like a Barry Trotz sort of player

I'd include a few other teams that could be a fit but I think they could be on his 15 team no-trade list. I'm not totally hung up on the return. I don't think we need to get a specific roster player or we have to get a specific draft pick, or we need to get a specific prospect with a Tuba trade. Maximize the value, best offer. The biggest thing is the cap space. Theres other options whether it be free agent or trade to address specific needs. Between free agency, Tuba, Goodrow, Lindgren and possibly Jones, if Drury is active I believe he can upgrade LD, bring in a top 6 wing, etc...
 
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GAGLine said:
It was an idea to dump Trouba.

Skinner had a down year and still managed 24 goals and 46 points in 74 games. The two years prior he put up 68 goals and 145 points in 159 games.

Skinner has been a very up and down player in his career, but the guy can still skate and he always kills us. He has the reputation as being a lot worse than he actually is.

If we can find a way to move Trouba without taking back a similar cap hit, I'm all for it. I just don't see a lot of options out there.
Click to expand...
Trouba has more value than Skinner. If you are reallocating Trouba, sure, but you need to get something useful back. Also if the Rangers are trading Trouba they need to be getting a Dman back because there is certainly nothing internal to replace him. and if you are trading him for a similar cap hit forward, then you certainly aren’t going to be able to sign a guy either

Skinner also has as many points in the NHL Playoffs as I do. Had one good year recently that was being driven completely by Tage Thompson. It’s been way more down than up. Not to mention he is as soft as baby turds. He is the complete wrong target. AND we would have an extra year of term to pick up? Absolutely not
 
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Savant said:
Trouba has more value than Skinner. If you are reallocating Trouba, sure, but you need to get something useful back. Also if the Rangers are trading Trouba they need to be getting a Dman back because there is certainly nothing internal to replace him. and if you are trading him for a similar cap hit forward, then you certainly aren’t going to be able to sign a guy either

Skinner also has as many points in the NHL Playoffs as I do. Had one good year recently that was being driven completely by Tage Thompson. It’s been way more down than up. Not to mention he is as soft as baby turds. He is the complete wrong target. AND we would have an extra year of term to pick up? Absolutely not
Click to expand...
Again, the bolded is based more on reputation than reality.

I did suggest the possibility of also swapping Goodrow and Jokiharju as part of the deal, which would give us a Trouba replacement.

Skinner has never played in the playoffs, so it's kind of disingenuous to imply that he's a bad playoff player. He put up good numbers 2 years in a row. Yes, he was playing with Thompson, but we have some good players too. If he could score 30+ goals for us, would that not be more valuable than what Trouba gives us? Do you remember how bad Trouba was for us in this playoff run?

Again, I'm not 100% advocating we do this. It was simply an idea to dump Trouba in exchange for someone who might be able to help us. If you can come up with a better idea, I'd love to hear it.
 
GAGLine said:
Again, the bolded is based more on reputation than reality.

I did suggest the possibility of also swapping Goodrow and Jokiharju as part of the deal, which would give us a Trouba replacement.

Skinner has never played in the playoffs, so it's kind of disingenuous to imply that he's a bad playoff player. He put up good numbers 2 years in a row. Yes, he was playing with Thompson, but we have some good players too. If he could score 30+ goals for us, would that not be more valuable than what Trouba gives us? Do you remember how bad Trouba was for us in this playoff run?

Again, I'm not 100% advocating we do this. It was simply an idea to dump Trouba in exchange for someone who might be able to help us. If you can come up with a better idea, I'd love to hear it.
Click to expand...
It was a good effort, per yr track record, usually thoughtful.
Expecting rule = Trouba reduced to 6.5 + 2024 3rd for 2 2nds
that is prob our best bet
take the pix + cap relief
don't force immediate help
 
Jacob Trouba and Kaapo Kakko for Boone Jenner and Erik Gudbranson. Captain for Captain trade with a little extra. Rangers do what they want to do and get bigger/tougher/"harder to play against". Jenner is a guy who fits our needs, consistent 20 goal scorer, can play wing and center(54%FOW) and all situations. Gudbranson is a caveman hockey move but he's cheaper than Trouba and will actually protect Igor (something the team hasnt done consistently).

Blue Jackets add a guy JD wanted bad when the Rangers traded for him, and changes their culture, we know Davidson and Rick nash like how the Rangers do things. Kakko is a sweetener to even out the value, but Jenner replaces his role. Trouba might not allow a trade to CBJ but he can't block every team and he's a midwest guy. No one's contract in this trade goes longer than 2 years. I think its pretty close value and makes sense for both.
 
GAGLine said:
What do people think of this idea?

Trouba (3.5 mil retained for 2 years)

for

Jeff Skinner (4.5 mil retained for 3 years)

This would result in Skinner costing us 8 mil for 2 years and then 4.5 mil in the 3rd year.

Trouba would cost Buffalo 9 mil for 2 years, after which they'd have a cap hit of 4.5 mil for 1 year.

Buffalo gets a veteran leader who can add some size and physicality to their defense while saving 4.5 mil in the 3rd year.

The Rangers take on an extra 4.5 mil 3 years from now, but they get a player who may be a fit in the top 6.

We could also potentially expand the deal to include Goodrow (1 mil retained) for Jokiharju.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I thought about this last night actually as well. I don’t hate it. Skinner attacks the middle of the ice and can really shoot. I’d hope Buffalo adds a bit just because I think Trouba has a greater effect but it’s not a bad idea

What about expanding it a bit:

Skinner at 50% and Greenway for Trouba with $2m retained

I think Greenway has one year left I believe
 
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GAGLine said:
Again, the bolded is based more on reputation than reality.

I did suggest the possibility of also swapping Goodrow and Jokiharju as part of the deal, which would give us a Trouba replacement.

Skinner has never played in the playoffs, so it's kind of disingenuous to imply that he's a bad playoff player. He put up good numbers 2 years in a row. Yes, he was playing with Thompson, but we have some good players too. If he could score 30+ goals for us, would that not be more valuable than what Trouba gives us? Do you remember how bad Trouba was for us in this playoff run?

Again, I'm not 100% advocating we do this. It was simply an idea to dump Trouba in exchange for someone who might be able to help us. If you can come up with a better idea, I'd love to hear it.
Click to expand...
No it isn’t. Trouba isn’t great but he is more valuable than Skinner. Yeah it’s a low bar, but I’m not moving out Trouba for a guy who there is literally zero evidence can help in the playoffs. Is older than Trouba. Has more term than Trouba, would have to play out of position, and makes the defense even worse
 
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still a work in progress:
first draft

something like this:
Dahlin, Power, 11OA, Skinner
for
30oa, Shesty, Zib, Lindy, Trouba, Othmann

rationale:
Sabes need to jump start
Skinner not top end and declining

above subtracts heart of their def corps and replaces w/stopgaps = huge negative
but
Zib >>> Skinner on age, $$, production = big +
add elite Vez quality G
Othmann = elc add, helps grow Fs
retain late 1st


Rs rationale
have to consider a big move to get to finals IF IF IF we can add foundation pieces when overpaying, to be expected w/a big move

Rs need to move Shesty now if return high enuf, be forced to get Garand + his elc going, structural cap

Skinner borderline sucks and is wrong direction comp to Zib, but other aspects worth it

Dahlin + Power = star 1st pair
Fox + Schneid = solid RD
KAM + Scanlin gets 1st short while Fortescue challenges next season
voila! our D is fixed
barring injury = solid 6

---------
the pivots are thinner, but that will require separate deals

Kreider -Brodz (stopgap) _______ - Skinner
bread - Tro - LaF
Cuylle - Chytil - KK
Good - Edst - Rempe

Vesey

Panarin not gonna be extended anywhere near 11+m = low/no offer = ugly, predict he will ok trade to location of his liking
FL w/Bob etc fits the bill, they need to add esp if top scorer leaves ufa

If bread to FL, Mikkola to NY and __________ ? but that is another 7.5 or so instant cap relief
in that scenario, as a stopgap Good to 2LW
although we have to see where Berard fits

somethin like dat....
 
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bernmeister said:
still a work in progress:
first draft

something like this:
Dahlin, Power, 11OA, Skinner
for
30oa, Shesty, Zib, Lindy, Trouba, Othmann

rationale:
Sabes need to jump start
Skinner not top end and declining

above subtracts heart of their def corps and replaces w/stopgaps = huge negative
but
Zib >>> Skinner on age, $$, production = big +
add elite Vez quality G
Othmann = elc add, helps grow Fs
retain late 1st


Rs rationale
have to consider a big move to get to finals IF IF IF we can add foundation pieces when overpaying, to be expected w/a big move

Rs need to move Shesty now if return high enuf, be forced to get Garand + his elc going, structural cap

Skinner borderline sucks and is wrong direction comp to Zib, but other aspects worth it

Dahlin + Power = star 1st pair
Fox + Schneid = solid RD
KAM + Scanlin gets 1st short while Fortescue challenges next season
voila! our D is fixed
barring injury = solid 6

---------
the pivots are thinner, but that will require separate deals

Kreider -Brodz (stopgap) _______ - Skinner
bread - Tro - LaF
Cuylle - Chytil - KK
Good - Edst - Rempe

Vesey

Panarin not gonna be extended anywhere near 11+m = low/no offer = ugly, predict he will ok trade to location of his liking
FL w/Bob etc fits the bill, they need to add esp if top scorer leaves ufa

If bread to FL, Mikkola to NY and __________ ? but that is another 7.5 or so instant cap relief
in that scenario, as a stopgap Good to 2LW
although we have to see where Berard fits

somethin like dat....
Click to expand...
This is before having a cup of coffee.....right?
 
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