Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[jay from jersey]

He had 6 points in 10 games too.

Having Zibby-chytil-tro as a spine down the middle when all are healthy and playing well isn’t a thing too many teams can offer or even handle.
All 3 play D and can put up points. Each one has something they do specifically better then the others in terms of their games but they are all a handful.

There was a very loud/noisy contingent on here that wanted to resign strome for 5mill-4-5 yrs, I never understood that.
Thank god Drury cut him loose because Trochek literally does everything better while also having chemistry with bread.

Then there were some that wanted to resign Copp. Good player, but Tro is more talented and relentless at the way he plays. He’s also a leader off the ice and helped Cuylle by letting him live with his family.
Our FO/Drury really did their homework before signing this guy. He’s been excellent and his contract is very moveable. It’s not an albatross down the line if need be.

Having tro at 6.5 opposed to copp/strome at 5-5.5 is an absolute no brainer.

Yes, we need centers in the system, but if chytil is healthy rangers should be set at center for the next 2-3/4 seasons.
Hopefully Edstrom becomes the long term 4C.
Imo he has everything you want in a 4C size/smarts/skating/finishes checks/pk option with long reach/and can add timely offense.
Trochek and peca should be running a Faceoff class in the offseason and Zibby/chytil/Edstrom should attend…..

 

[IDvsEGO]

Having Zibby-chytil-tro as a spine down the middle when all are healthy and playing well isn’t a thing too many teams can offer or even handle.
All 3 play D and can put up points. Each one has something they do specifically better then the others in terms of their games but they are all a handful.

There was a very loud/noisy contingent on here that wanted to resign strome for 5mill-4-5 yrs, I never understood that.
Thank god Drury cut him loose because Trochek literally does everything better while also having chemistry with bread.

Then there were some that wanted to resign Copp. Good player, but Tro is more talented and relentless at the way he plays. He’s also a leader off the ice and helped Cuylle by letting him live with his family.
Our FO/Drury really did their homework before signing this guy. He’s been excellent and his contract is very moveable. It’s not an albatross down the line if need be.

Having tro at 6.5 opposed to copp/strome at 5-5.5 is an absolute no brainer.

Yes, we need centers in the system, but if chytil is healthy rangers should be set at center for the next 2-3/4 seasons.
Hopefully Edstrom becomes the long term 4C.
Imo he has everything you want in a 4C size/smarts/skating/finishes checks/pk option with long reach/and can add timely offense.
Trochek and peca should be running a Faceoff class in the offseason and Zibby/chytil/Edstrom should attend…..

the strome didnt have chemistry with bread argument is BS. Trocheck and Bread had almost no chemistry last season. Some of that may have been Gallant, but neither of them had great years.

 

[bhamill]

the strome didnt have chemistry with bread argument is BS. Trocheck and Bread had almost no chemistry last season. Some of that may have been Gallant, but neither of them had great years.

I think the problems most of us had with Strome went light years beyond his chemistry with Panarin… Trocheck is just better at EVERYTHING.
The best thing about Strome is we got him for Spooner. Hahahaha.

 

[GAGLine]

The best thing about Strome is we got him for Spooner. Hahahaha.

Getting good value out of a player the islanders drafted is a close 2nd for me.

Though, they did get value by trading him. Edmonton screwed the pooch on Strome twice, first trading Eberle for him, then trading him for Spooner.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I think the problems most of us had with Strome went light years beyond his chemistry with Panarin… Trocheck is just better at EVERYTHING.
The best thing about Strome is we got him for Spooner. Hahahaha.

I love the upgrade from strome to trocheck, but strome was a very different player and was better on the PP at everything except winning faceoffs.

 

[GAGLine]

I love the upgrade from strome to trocheck, but strome was a very different player and was better on the PP at everything except winning faceoffs.

Was he?

Over his 3 full years with the Rangers, Strome had 49 PP points in 200 games (.245 ppp/g).

In the last 2 years, Trocheck has 41 PP points in 164 games (.25 ppp/g).

What things was Strome better at, exactly?

 

[bhamill]

Well Tro had 24 points on the PP this year. Strome’s best year was 18… so, I disagree with that. In any case, winning O zone face offs on the PP is VITAL, so it’s not something to minimize.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Was he?

Over his 3 full years with the Rangers, Strome had 49 PP points in 200 games (.245 ppp/g).

In the last 2 years, Trocheck has 41 PP points in 164 games (.25 ppp/g).

What things was Strome better at, exactly?

Strome was better at handling the puck, and distributing better on the PP.
Trocheck is better at being in the slot and getting off a contested onetimer there.

With Panarin / fox/ kreider, youd have a power play that should be top 5.
With strome it was 1-2,
with trocheck it is 5th

Not a huge difference but its slightly noticable.

But trocheck is better at everything else important at 5v5, so that favors trocheck significantly.

 

[GAGLine]

Looking at expected goals vs actual goals for every team this year in all situations, I found:

18 of 32 teams scored more than expected by the Moneypuck model.

Of the 16 teams that made the playoffs, 13 scored more than expected. Edmonton, Nashville and Washington scored less than expected.

Edmonton scored at a 55.3% rate compared to 57.4% expected.

Nashville scored at a 51.75% rate compared to 52.2% expected.

Washington scored at a 46.15% rate compared to 47.4% expected.

Washington appears to be an anomaly. They got in because everyone else was worse and they were good enough defensively to account for their terrible offensive production. They also aren't expected to be in the playoffs for much longer. Nashville had a great run in the 2nd half of the season to secure a playoff spot, but they may end up bowing out to Vancouver despite Demko being out. And even still, Nashville's actual and expected goals are both over 50%.

Edmonton missed the mark by the largest margin of the three, but their expected goals was also the highest in the league, and their actual goals was 6th highest.

People tend to suggest that any team performing above expectations are due to regress, but is that really true?

Over the last 16 years (as far back as Moneypuck goes), the Rangers have outscored their expected numbers 13 times.

Maybe other models do a better job at predicting team success, but to me, it seems like outperforming the model is a better predictor of success than the model itself.

 

[QJL]

Strome was better at handling the puck, and distributing better on the PP.
Trocheck is better at being in the slot and getting off a contested onetimer there.

With Panarin / fox/ kreider, youd have a power play that should be top 5.
With strome it was 1-2,
with trocheck it is 5th

Not a huge difference but its slightly noticable.

But trocheck is better at everything else important at 5v5, so that favors trocheck significantly.

I am confused. This current Rangers power play is our best since 77-78 at 26.4% and cracks the top 50 most efficient power plays in the history of the NHL…

That never happened with Strome.

 

[SA16]

Strome was better at handling the puck, and distributing better on the PP.
Trocheck is better at being in the slot and getting off a contested onetimer there.

With Panarin / fox/ kreider, youd have a power play that should be top 5.
With strome it was 1-2,
with trocheck it is 5th

Not a huge difference but its slightly noticable.

But trocheck is better at everything else important at 5v5, so that favors trocheck significantly.

22-23 to 23-24 it is 25.3% which is 3rd best.

20-21 to 21-22 it was 23.2% which was 7th best.

 

[Savant]

Not for nothing but what ever line Kakko is on tends to show up on these

 

[duhmetreE]

Not for nothing but what ever line Kakko is on tends to show up on these

I feel like we’ve been seeing signs of him putting it together since coming back from the injury.

His shot has been beating a lot of goalies cleanly. Next step is being in position to use it more

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Cuylle has graded out as our best forward 5v5 and Kakko has been very good too so this isn't surprising.

Guess who is our worst forward so far in terms of xGF% 5v5?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Cuylle has graded out as our best forward 5v5 and Kakko has been very good too so this isn't surprising.

Guess who is our worst forward so far in terms of xGF% 5v5?

Panarin

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Panarin

Bingo.

I buy into the penalty fest f***ing with him a bit but being at the bottom no matter what the situation isn’t good.

 

[Fitzy]

Not for nothing but what ever line Kakko is on tends to show up on these

Machine has said numerous times that he 'just isn't very good' and I disagree,

I think he's a very good third line winger. I just don't think he can be expected to be anything more than that at this point. It's pretty clear he doesn't have enough quickness to be a 30 goal guy like we wanted him to be.

It's regrettable that he fell to us right after a guy who turned out to be a top 10 forward in the league. It's also regrettable that the fanbase decided to hype him as a 100 point superstar before we ever saw him play North American hockey. But that isn't on him.

In that way, he's much more in the Manny Malhotra camp than the Brendl/Lundmark/Andersson/McIlrath camp (Christ that's depressing)

 

[Savant]

Machine has said numerous times that he 'just isn't very good' and I disagree,

I think he's a very good third line winger. I just don't think he can be expected to be anything more than that at this point. It's pretty clear he doesn't have enough quickness to be a 30 goal guy like we wanted him to be.

It's regrettable that he fell to us right after a guy who turned out to be a top 10 forward in the league. It's also regrettable that the fanbase decided to hype him as a 100 point superstar before we ever saw him play North American hockey. But that isn't on him.

In that way, he's much more in the Manny Malhotra camp than the Brendl/Lundmark/Andersson/McIlrath camp (Christ that's depressing)

Kakko is 100% an NHL player. But he also 100% may not be worse his impending raise to a cap strapped team like the Rangers. Feel like either him or Othmann getting dealt this summer. Kakko definitely is a good player, might not ever be a great player, but that’s fine

 

[Fitzy]

Kakko is 100% an NHL player. But he also 100% may not be worse his impending raise to a cap strapped team like the Rangers. Feel like either him or Othmann getting dealt this summer. Kakko definitely is a good player, might not ever be a great player, but that’s fine

It's interesting that you say this because while you may be right about what we need, what Kakko's strengths and weaknesses are, this may be true. Team needs more Benoit Pouliots and less Alex Frolovs.

That said, because Kakko tends to underperform in the most visible offensive statistics relative to his fancy stats, you could make the case that he'll often be underpaid, and therefore a bargain.

 

[Savant]

It's interesting that you say this because while you may be right about what we need, what Kakko's strengths and weaknesses are, this may be true. Team needs more Benoit Pouliots and less Alex Frolovs.

That said, because Kakko tends to underperform in the most visible offensive statistics relative to his fancy stats, you could make the case that he'll often be underpaid, and therefore a bargain.

It’s relative. I wouldn’t move him but economics might dictate that they have to. There are other guys that I’d move first but they are on NMCs so who knows.

Also Kakko might be a move valuable trade chip to upgrade the D, which is going to be necessary

 

[DanielBrassard]

Bingo.

I buy into the penalty fest f***ing with him a bit but being at the bottom no matter what the situation isn’t good.

He’s been bad, I don’t know how it can be denied. If it wasn’t emblematic of his entire rangers playoff tenure it would be no big deal but that’s not the case unfortunately.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

If they could sign Kakko to the Chytil deal, they should do it. Give him another 1-2 years to breakout and if not, you can always move that contract

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I really don't see Kakko getting a large raise unless there is term. Down year and some injury issues. May be 4 years, $3.25M AAV?

 

[Kendo]

Strome was better at handling the puck, and distributing better on the PP.
Trocheck is better at being in the slot and getting off a contested onetimer there.

With Panarin / fox/ kreider, youd have a power play that should be top 5.
With strome it was 1-2,
with trocheck it is 5th

Not a huge difference but its slightly noticable.

But trocheck is better at everything else important at 5v5, so that favors trocheck significantly.

Trocheck is better in the bumper than Strome, imo. I don't see "Strome leaving" being the reason that Kreider isn't on a 50G pace any longer. We upgraded our bumper so that our net front guy could fall back down to Earth and our entire PP wouldn't tank.

Not for nothing but what ever line Kakko is on tends to show up on these

Kakko is an "Expected Stats Monster," with a little bit underwhelming "Actual" offensive output. This is the perfect "Moneyball Contract" type player. Salaries are often proportional to P/GP, with outliers like underpaid Gus scoring points and overpaid Gudbranson NOT scoring points.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Said it a few times, but while Kakko may be disappointing he also is definitely a guy I want on my 2nd or 3rd line in the playoffs.

The bigger issue than how much his next contract might be, is will he / his agent push for a change of scenery to somewhere that would offer him a bigger role and a chance to increase his counting stats / future earnings? I think highly likely the answer is yes. I can't 100% blame him / his agent but would be frustrating as an NYR fan as he could be a damn useful player for a long time.