Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[GoAwayPanarin]

Aren’t you the same guy that said Panarin was washed and we should trade him for a bag of rice cakes?

Based off of what he does this spring that may end up being the overwhelming opinion on this board.

I don’t know what that has to do with Rempe being slower than those guys, that is fact.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Based off of what he does this spring that may end up being the overwhelming opinion on this board.

I don’t know what that has to do with Rempe being slower than those guys, that is fact.

Basically speaks to your judgment and assessment of talent. Irrespective of what he’s done in the playoffs, Panarin has still been our best player since he’s been here and it’s not even close. We wouldn’t even be talking about playoffs the last three years if it weren’t for him.

 

[Kendo]

I think Othmann probably also goes for that LHD.


I’ve long wondered what packaging kakko, Othmann and Lindgren could return.

If I were firing up an new EA Dynasty as a random non-NYR team, this is the type of move I would be PUMPED to make if I had a Hanifin I didn't want to re-sign. Even someone with an extra year.

I’ve been talking about Theodore since the Hanifin trade that’s the guy to get. I have no problem using Kakko as ammo to get Theodore.

He'd be a good get. I don't think KK is a requirement in such a deal.

Cuylle shouldn’t have his role diminished next year after the season he’s had.
If anything, he should be getting more min/opportunity……
Our PP is likely set for the next 2 seasons.
If Goodrow is traded/bought out there can be at least 1 open FWD spot for the PK.
I assume Krieder will remain a mainstay on it…..
Kakko should step up and fill that role if he’s here.
If chytil is healthy, it gives the team so many more possibilities next season.
They can run
Panarin-Tro-laf
Cuylle-Zibby-Kakko
Kreider-Chytil-Othmann/berard

All pretty evenly, at least for 15-20 games….
4th should be the shutdown/ matchup line…
Rempe/UFA-Edstrom-vesey
Ex Brod

The. 4th needs to give this team at least 10-12 min of trusted hockey a game.

If Cuylle is one of the first guys slotted up in the case of rookie struggles or injury in order to keep the other lines in tact, his role might not even be diminished. Treat him as an upgrade over Vesey, who's already getting more minutes per game than he is. You can structure it the way I stated, and still increase his ATOI by two whole minutes.

Even if you go 50 - 72 - Rookie (when I said one, maaaybe two rookies anyway), Vesey with two of Edstrom/Brodz/Rempe makes a Goodrow buyout doable and still have an enviable 4th line.

I agree with every part of your post except for the first two sentences that disagree with mine. There's room for a 13:00 ATOI for Cuylle (technically on the 4th line) instead of his current 11:00 a night (technically on the 3rd line).

 

[RangersFan1994]

KAM + Schneider are both practically untouchable for now/short-mid term

If we did LaF + for Guhle + Reinbacher ++
we could see about
Othmann + Shesty + Scanlin +
for
Sanderson + Tkac. +

Scan is not immediate help but close enuf
Huge increase in def w/elite goalie [concern about extending him first]
Othmann is Tka lite, cheaper
Sens no longer concerned about frugal owner, but cap space always primo concern

Rs would gamble Quick + Garand + Domingue in net
see if Huge Ole Ass takes jump in 2 yrs to Gar backup
gets Tkac. while keeping Gabe Per.
and Sanderson!

Sandy - Fox
KAM - Schneid
Guhle - Troub [til dealt]/stopgap -> in 1.5 yr Reinbacher

Glad you aren't the GM.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Basically speaks to your judgment and assessment of talent. Irrespective of what he’s done in the playoffs, Panarin has still been our best player since he’s been here and it’s not even close. We wouldn’t even be talking about playoffs the last three years if it weren’t for him.

Panarin has sucked ass in the playoffs as a ranger. That’s true for both of his runs here.

Sounds like my assessment was spot on. I never said anything negative about his regular season production.

If he has another dud of a run, it’ll be a whole lot more than just me who will want him gone.


Also there are actual measurements of in game speed. Rempe is one of our slowest players, not our second fastest.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Panarin has sucked ass in the playoffs as a ranger. That’s true for both of his runs here.

Sounds like my assessment was spot on. I never said anything negative about his regular season production.

If he has another dud of a run, it’ll be a whole lot more than just me who will want him gone.


Also there are actual measurements of in game speed. Rempe is one of our slowest players, not our second fastest.

I’m not arguing Rempe is a fast skater, I’m arguing he’s an effective fourth line player for us.

Again, without Panarin, we aren’t sniffing the playoffs the last three seasons, so I find it pretty ironic you are holding him solely responsible for the lack of success in the postseason.

 

[bl02]

Craig Berube on the TNT broadcast picked K'Andre Miller as one of the top defensive dmen in hockey. He also picked Forsling and Slavin.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Craig Berube on the TNT broadcast picked K'Andre Miller as one of the top defensive dmen in hockey. He also picked Forsling and Slavin.

This is what happens when you actually understand defense at this level.

Being a meat shield isn’t good defense. Some people here are convinced tbat and hitting people are what makes an elite defender.

 

[Kendo]

Panarin has sucked ass in the playoffs as a ranger. That’s true for both of his runs here.

Sounds like my assessment was spot on. I never said anything negative about his regular season production.

If he has another dud of a run, it’ll be a whole lot more than just me who will want him gone.

He didn't "suck ass" during our deep run. He just wasn't "the guy." He was "that guy" 3 out of 4 times in Columbus while the supporting cast wasn't enough.

A little overstated, but if he has another dud of a run there will certainly be questions. If he even has close to a P/GP run this postseason, then it will prove your overreaction to last year being an outlier.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

An extra day rest for the Rangers assuming the Garden isn’t playing two playoff games on same day.

That blows. We dont need an extra day, we will have 5 days off already.

f*** the knicks, hope they get swept so they get the f*** out of our building.

 

[bobbop]

It is not an either-or binary exclusive situation.
He is righty shot, and could readily slide over to W.
So your posture he can't be a W is, IMO, wrong.

The ? is, where is he most productive, and that appears to be heavily influenced by who that other linemate is.

Remember, chemistry is a real thing.

Contracts are a real thing too. Mika as a right wing would never have a $68 MM contract

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He didn't "suck ass" during our deep run. He just wasn't "the guy." He was "that guy" 3 out of 4 times in Columbus while the supporting cast wasn't enough.

A little overstated, but if he has another dud of a run there will certainly be questions. If he even has close to a P/GP run this postseason, then it will prove your overreaction to last year being an outlier.

He did suck ass in our first run. He was what? Our 5th leading scorer? He was out produced at 5v5 by Chytil and Laf IIRC. He had nearly double the minutes. If we got what was expected out of him they probably win the whole thing.

At 11.6, that is a bad run. What he did last year was obviously worse.

If he has another dud of a run I think the questions will be answered. He’s got a clean slate going in ( as does everyone else) but this should really be the he last rung on the excuse leash for him. People want to jump all over Zibanejad (and his play has warranted it) but forget that he’s actually had a pair of strong runs with the Rangers. That’s 2 more than Panarin.

 

[Fitzy]

Contracts are a real thing too. Mika as a right wing would never have a $68 MM contract

Not the same amount but I don’t think a similar number would be shocking given his productivity. He’s closer to Kreiders AAV than Panarins

 

[bobbop]

Not the same amount but I don’t think a similar number would be shocking given his productivity. He’s closer to Kreiders AAV than Panarins

If he had been a wing his entire career, he would be unlikely to have that level of productivity or value, especially defensively.. He’d be a different player.

 

[Kendo]

He did suck ass in our first run. He was what? Our 5th leading scorer? He was out produced at 5v5 by Chytil and Laf IIRC. He had nearly double the minutes. If we got what was expected out of him they probably win the whole thing.

At 11.6, that is a bad run. What he did last year was obviously worse.

If he has another dud of a run I think the questions will be answered. He’s got a clean slate going in ( as does everyone else) but this should really be the he last rung on the excuse leash for him. People want to jump all over Zibanejad (and his play has warranted it) but forget that he’s actually had a pair of strong runs with the Rangers. That’s 2 more than Panarin.

At .800 P/GP, there's just no way that equates to "sucks ass." "Not enough for $11+" is a different thing entirely.

Mika had a better 2022 playoffs, but TWO better than Panarin's 16 in 20??? There's a nugget of truth in every overstatement, but holy cow, it's "Oops, All Overstatements."

I'm much more reasonable about Zibanejad, so don't use those people against me.

Do I just need to stop reasoning with you about Panarin, given your name? LOL

 

[EdJovanovski]

At .800 P/GP, there's just no way that equates to "sucks ass." "Not enough for $11+" is a different thing entirely.

Mika had a better 2022 playoffs, but TWO better than Panarin's 16 in 20??? There's a nugget of truth in every overstatement, but holy cow, it's "Oops, All Overstatements."

I'm much more reasonable about Zibanejad, so don't use those people against me.

Do I just need to stop reasoning with you about Panarin, given your name? LOL

There's also much needed context for his contract, he was the headliner of the last UFA class before Covid & flat cap. It's intellectually dishonest to compare his performance relative to cap hit to guys who never hit free agency, Mika would've gotten more as a UFA than what we gave him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

At .800 P/GP, there's just no way that equates to "sucks ass." "Not enough for $11+" is a different thing entirely.

Mika had a better 2022 playoffs, but TWO better than Panarin's 16 in 20??? There's a nugget of truth in every overstatement, but holy cow, it's "Oops, All Overstatements."

I'm much more reasonable about Zibanejad, so don't use those people against me.

Do I just need to stop reasoning with you about Panarin, given your name? LOL

Yeah, his 2017 run where he was our leading scorer was better too.

Scoring is all relative. .8 is not that impressive when thats your 4th or 5th (I don't remember if he outproduced Copp, it was close) best total and you're the highest paid player on the team.

 

[jay from jersey]

If I were firing up an new EA Dynasty as a random non-NYR team, this is the type of move I would be PUMPED to make if I had a Hanifin I didn't want to re-sign. Even someone with an extra year.


He'd be a good get. I don't think KK is a requirement in such a deal.


If Cuylle is one of the first guys slotted up in the case of rookie struggles or injury in order to keep the other lines in tact, his role might not even be diminished. Treat him as an upgrade over Vesey, who's already getting more minutes per game than he is. You can structure it the way I stated, and still increase his ATOI by two whole minutes.

Even if you go 50 - 72 - Rookie (when I said one, maaaybe two rookies anyway), Vesey with two of Edstrom/Brodz/Rempe makes a Goodrow buyout doable and still have an enviable 4th line.

I agree with every part of your post except for the first two sentences that disagree with mine. There's room for a 13:00 ATOI for Cuylle (technically on the 4th line) instead of his current 11:00 a night (technically on the 3rd line).

I wish 4th would get about 10-12min every night, but I doubt it. Especially if 2/3 of the line are going to be 1st year full season guys……
Most coaches deploy the 4th between 6-10 min a game. A guy like vesey will get more time cause of the PK.
Dropping cuylle to a 4th line role would more than likely drop his ice time, and I don’t see anywhere on special teams where he gets on the ice more….
Next year, we’re def going to have to lean on some more rookies/young guys more heavily.
At least 1 middle 6 RW, Edstrom, Jones, Rempe( if he’s an everyday guy)…..
Top 4 D
Top 3 FWD lines will still get more time……
If anything, having a quality 3rd line ( 2 B) however ya wanna label it should see their time increased so the top 6 is ridden too hard all year…
But that a ways off yet.
Plenty of time for UFAs/trades/etc…..
They might feel Edstrom is a better option then Kakko to fill the void left on the PK, who knows.

 

[egelband]

Kreider/Zibanejad/Roslovic have a 58.6 CF% and 54.2 xG% in 166 minutes. What exactly is the issue with that line?

I suppose it depends on their opposition. If they’re putting up those numbers against the other team’s top line, that’s terrific. It they’re doing it against bottom six competition it’s not efficient. But I assume they’re going up against top lines and in that case, it’s all good.
Is there a metric to tell us about the quality of a line’s opposition?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I suppose it depends on their opposition. If they’re putting up those numbers against the other team’s top line, that’s terrific. It they’re doing it against bottom six competition it’s not efficient. But I assume they’re going up against top lines and in that case, it’s all good.
Is there a metric to tell us about the quality of a line’s opposition?

QoC is a stat but I don't know if anyone has it listed or tracked for line combos.

You can check to see who they were matched up against on their game logs since they've been a trio manually but thats kind of a pain.

@Machinehead may be able to help.

 

[Kendo]

I wish 4th would get about 10-12min every night, but I doubt it. Especially if 2/3 of the line are going to be 1st year full season guys……
Most coaches deploy the 4th between 6-10 min a game. A guy like vesey will get more time cause of the PK.
Dropping cuylle to a 4th line role would more than likely drop his ice time, and I don’t see anywhere on special teams where he gets on the ice more….
Next year, we’re def going to have to lean on some more rookies/young guys more heavily.
At least 1 middle 6 RW, Edstrom, Jones, Rempe( if he’s an everyday guy)…..
Top 4 D
Top 3 FWD lines will still get more time……
If anything, having a quality 3rd line ( 2 B) however ya wanna label it should see their time increased so the top 6 is ridden too hard all year…
But that a ways off yet.
Plenty of time for UFAs/trades/etc…..
They might feel Edstrom is a better option then Kakko to fill the void left on the PK, who knows.

Goodrow, Vesey, and Bonino have all averaged over a minute more per game than Cuylle. It's possible.

 

[jay from jersey]

Goodrow, Vesey, and Bonino have all averaged over a minute more per game than Cuylle. It's possible.

Yea all 3 have/had special teams roles

 

[Draft Guru]

Goodrow, Vesey, and Bonino have all averaged over a minute more per game than Cuylle. It's possible.

Wow, I completely forgot all about Bonino. The fact we have a chance to win the President's Trophy after dressing Bonino for 45 games this year is quite the feat.

 

[haohmaru]

Just throwing this out here:

1994:
Solar Eclipse
*Earthquake
OJ car chase
Rangers win the Stanley Cup

2024:
Solar Eclipse
Earthquake
OJ dead
Rangers win Stanley Cup

* No earthquake in '94. That was tweeted but is incorrect.

 

[bernmeister]

I think Othmann probably also goes for that LHD.


I’ve long wondered what packaging kakko, Othmann and Lindgren could return.

1. we need effective scoring F on top of D, so you're not automatically wrong, but can be a matter of taking care not to rob Peter to pay Paul.

2. Doubt we get a taker who pays more for a package. If anything, more likely to want a volume discount. A unique situation, or one having multiple pieces for multiple pieces can max return. But if multiple pieces for fewer pieces/single piece, not seeing more value than if those 3 are sold separately. Also again, under almost no circumstances, KK should NOT be sold now, would be selling too low, his value will increase w/decent term contract extension and improved production if full time on line w/Cuylle + proper pivot [Chytil or other].

I’m not arguing Rempe is a fast skater, I’m arguing he’s an effective fourth line player for us.

Again, without Panarin, we aren’t sniffing the playoffs the last three seasons, so I find it pretty ironic you are holding him solely responsible for the lack of success in the postseason.

Rempe is on balance fast enuf
More than good straightaway speed
Reaction time/reading the play will improve w/experience incl. also regular turns w/better quality linemates.

bread deserves kudos for this season, just as being excoriated was appropriate in recent prior seasons, where he reaped what he sowed by, intensity/effort aside, he did not play smart, and arguably was stupidly arrogant about trying to force results his way. Now, he is making smarter choices about shooting, etc. But him not being humbler/smarter previously = less production hurting us is fully on him.

Separate and apart from the above paragraph is whether or not he is worth his contract's hefty 11.6+ cap hit.
Before this season, NO, no ANINEC.
Now it is a fair ? if 3 Chytils are not worth more than 1 Pan.

You can't realistically expect overpay all the time. When a primo asset is on the table, it is possible. Bread will not be renewed anywhere near 11.6 due to cap. If we send a message by dealing Shesty for high enuf, and Trouba for cap space, it may send message to Pan and lesser extent Zib that Rs are gonna break up the core -- control cap, not let it control us. Accordingly, he MAY consent to getting dealt next yr in advance of his deal expiring; i.e., mutual backscratch: he agrees to waive, and we in turn try to accommodate his preferred relocation.

Contracts are a real thing too. Mika as a right wing would never have a $68 MM contract

Yes and no.
He is an F. He should want to play w/not only quality talent linemates but also those w/best chemistry = most points/best production = mo money. Position is secondary there. But regardless, he's getting paid, the fans (via the club) own his ass, not the other way around. If he's no cool with that, sign elsewhere.