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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIX

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Brooklyn Rangers Fan said:
C) History has shown (as @Edge has pointed out repeatedly), front offices are a lot less worried about managing the cap than fans. Competent FOs always have a way out – witness the Staal deal just a few days ago
Click to expand...

front office are worried about losing their jobs if the team loses so they will spend the money.
 
Levitate said:
I doubt they pay Stome long term big money...I think Edge hinted both parties were looking short term. That is if another move isn't made.

The cap space might just be to re-sign RFAs for next year and maybe Fast, who knows. I'm sure there are lots of options in the air and maybe having cap space to take back a cap dump as part of a deal with someone like Vegas or Calgary (do they need a cap dump?) is a valuable thing to have as well
Click to expand...

If JG can whip up some magic this may be interesting. Taking a short term cap dump as part of a bigger deal that could favor us a bit?
A lot of GM's are gonna be busy the next week
 
bl02 said:
If JG can whip up some magic this may be interesting. Taking a short term cap dump as part of a bigger deal that could favor us a bit?
A lot of GM's are gonna be busy the next week
Click to expand...

If nothing else I think it's always an asset to have in your pocket...
 
Let's take a look at what the Rangers can do this off-season, @Kupo. These freebies will dry up soon fellas.

RFAs:
  • DeAngelo-> He is a luxury for the Rangers. That 1st unit PP can be manned by Fox. And Jacob Trouba is already a 50 Point Defenseman in the NHL. You also have Nils, who is a really good hockey player. In other words, he's moveable. Totally moveable. Sign and Trade Pay Day Son. Take it if you get it. Maybe he signs for term and gets moved by next off-season.
  • Strome-> I am not going into a playoff run with him getting 18 minutes a night. Really like the guy, but you will need to upgrade. Similar situation to DeAngelo, he's a safe bet for another year, but perhaps you can package him as a replacement.
  • Anderson->Getting a former 7th overall pick.
  • Buchnevich->Legit Top 6 NHL Winger.
  • Georgiev-> Really good up and coming goalie. Has had numerous outings that exceeded the national hockey league average goaltender mixed in with bombs and drubbings, so the numbers don't look great, but he's a very good goalie. Rangers can sign a back-up.
  • Lemeuix-> Doesn't PK or PP effectively. Like him being a pest, but doesn't fill a role beyond being a pest. Is that on Brenden, or the team? I think it can go both ways here a bit, but he's also tradeable.
That's 6 NHL Pieces. Say they are gone from the line-up. Let's look at the depth chart, it's not a line up below:

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]LW[/TD][TD]C[/TD][TD]RW[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Bread[/TD][TD]Zibanejad[/TD][TD]Kakko[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Kreider[/TD][TD]Chytil[/TD][TD]Gauthier[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Lafreniere[/TD][TD]Howden[/TD][TD]Kravstov[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Diguisippe[/TD][TD]Khodorenko[/TD][TD]Richards[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Barron[/TD][TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] LD[/TD][TD] RD[/TD][TD] G[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Lindgren [/TD][TD] Trouba[/TD][TD] Shesty[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Smith[/TD][TD]Fox [/TD][TD] Huska[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Miller [/TD][TD]Nils [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Hajek[/TD][TD] Raddysh[/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Rauenanen[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD][/TD]
[TD] [/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]


  • Right Wing-> If you look at the above, what it tells you is that moving Buch now is not a great idea, but you have options and upside in the players that can replace him or his minutes. Can all three younger guys on the RW take a step? I think playing Kakko with Zibanejad will lead to some magic. Gauthier I'm not sure of 100%, but I think VK could slot in should he not stay in Russia. VK across from Bread or Laf is also going to create some good offense. You can't play them to protect leads.
  • Centers-> Chytil can be a really high impact two way center in the third hole. Was glad to see him get some PK reps. Hope he's working on getting stronger, and winning faceoffs. Howden, I would prefer him on the 4th line LW as a guy who can take faceoffs and kill penalties. I want him playing a hard north south game, and get some coverage in the middle from a more experienced checker. That 4th Line RW slot, that can be the call-up/reward/punishment slot. Howden & the 4th line center need to be a duo, one that can work with a rotation of wingers. For the sake of this exercise let's say we all like Eich.
  • Left wing-> I say keep all three on the left side, and double shift Laf and Bread to juice up the offense. You have PP time too. Laf will take Strome's PP time, and make it deadly. You're good on LW. More than good.
  • LD-> Miller slots into the top 6 and is an everyday player. Gets minutes with Trouba, and third pair on occasion. Smith is there because he's here as of this day, and has more NHL games. I think you sign a UFA to a 2 year deal, a Seattle fall-back guy like Beulieu, and trade for a guy like Nutivarra. A good value contract for a player that can give you a solid 15-18 minutes a night, block shots, and move the puck. He can PK. You can also trade some of the assets that are here.
  • RD-> Nils isn't signed, but if he comes over, and is ready. Well he can take those DeAngelo minutes. The Rangers can also sign a veteran, like Schenn, Yanick Weber, or Ruuta.
  • G-> I think you need a tandem or platoon next year. I would move Geo in the right deal, but the Rangers aren't backfilling with anyone internally. If anything you need to add a goalie for Vegas. Berube might work.

Not saying this gets it done, and you would want Eichel to say he only wants to play for NYR, but say the Ranger swing a deal for him. Sign one of Grant, Richardson, or Thompson. Maybe Simmonds signs for a year to play on the 4th line. A really good trade would be get Carter Rowney out of Anaheim, just take on the salary you have cap space.

So the Rangers Can Trade DeAngelo, Strome, Lemeuix, Anderson, Georgiev, prospects and picks, including a 2020 1st to BUF for Eichel, and not be ravaged. 4 Young NHL pieces, Top 6, and Top 4 players in Strome and DeAngelo, NHLer Brenden Lemeuix. I'm not suggesting you load up and pay 5-8 pieces for Eich, but 5 NHL bodies and BUF gets two players whose point totals exceeds Jack's?

Not saying you pay such a high price with added prospects and picks, but if a 3rd team got involved, or if some of the players got moved for additional picks in 2020.

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]LW[/TD][TD]C[/TD][TD]RW[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Bread[/TD][TD]Eich[/TD][TD]Buch[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Kreider[/TD][TD]Zibs[/TD][TD]Kakko[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Lafreniere[/TD][TD]Chytil[/TD][TD]Kravstov/Gauthier[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Howden[/TD][TD]Grant[/TD][TD]Rowney[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Digi[/TD][TD]Khodorenko[/TD][TD]Richards[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Barron[/TD][TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]LD [/TD][TD]RD [/TD][TD] G[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Miller[/TD][TD]Trouba[/TD][TD]Shesty[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Lindgren[/TD][TD]Fox[/TD][TD]Geo[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Nutivaara[/TD][TD]Nils[/TD][TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Beaulieu[/TD][TD]Schenn [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]


That looks like a team that's on the verge of contending. If Miller and Nils live up to and exceed their potential as rookies... which is a stretch... but the Rangers just showed that they can ice two rookie defensemen just last year, that horizon out the window's looking mighty fine.

If Chytil takes a step, and Kakko takes a step. You are knocking on the door.
 
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Off Sides said:
The offers must have been for future or youth, it was a trade deadline selling a vet.

I think his deal is questionable, first couple years I think may be okay, after I hope it turns out within market.

The Staal deal had to include a sweetener in order to move. Not sure it takes a ton of GM talent to sell a one year cap hit with a lower salary than the cap hit to a rebuilding team if they add a future to it.
Click to expand...

I'll reply to myself as I don't think I wrote that fairly to @Brooklyn Rangers Fan, I wrote it quickly and I think you are a very good poster.

It's frustrating to me. Partially because I was not for the Kreider extension in the first place. In fact was posting about him being traded while he'd have more value with two years left and I received much flake for such an opinion.

Partially also annoying in hindsight when I see ideas posted around moving on from Zbad because he does not fit the timeline (which I kind of agree with) when that was the argument I was making regarding not staying with Kreider.

Extra annoying now in hindsight when they will likely draft #1OA and that is a LW.

Even more annoying when an argument is being made they can not keep three RDs because of cap when they will be basically keeping three LWs at the cap hit they have or will have.

Anyway, sorry for the impulsive response initially.
 
Mikos87 said:
Let's take a look at what the Rangers can do this off-season, @Kupo. These freebies will dry up soon fellas.

RFAs:
  • DeAngelo-> He is a luxury for the Rangers. That 1st unit PP can be manned by Fox. And Jacob Trouba is already a 50 Point Defenseman in the NHL. You also have Nils, who is a really good hockey player. In other words, he's moveable. Totally moveable. Sign and Trade Pay Day Son. Take it if you get it. Maybe he signs for term and gets moved by next off-season.
  • Strome-> I am not going into a playoff run with him getting 18 minutes a night. Really like the guy, but you will need to upgrade. Similar situation to DeAngelo, he's a safe bet for another year, but perhaps you can package him as a replacement.
  • Anderson->Getting a former 7th overall pick.
  • Buchnevich->Legit Top 6 NHL Winger.
  • Georgiev-> Really good up and coming goalie. Has had numerous outings that exceeded the national hockey league average goaltender mixed in with bombs and drubbings, so the numbers don't look great, but he's a very good goalie. Rangers can sign a back-up.
  • Lemeuix-> Doesn't PK or PP effectively. Like him being a pest, but doesn't fill a role beyond being a pest. Is that on Brenden, or the team? I think it can go both ways here a bit, but he's also tradeable.
That's 6 NHL Pieces. Say they are gone from the line-up. Let's look at the depth chart, it's not a line up below:

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]LW[/TD][TD]C[/TD][TD]RW[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Bread[/TD][TD]Zibanejad[/TD][TD]Kakko[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Kreider[/TD][TD]Chytil[/TD][TD]Gauthier[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Lafreniere[/TD][TD]Howden[/TD][TD]Kravstov[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Diguisippe[/TD][TD]Khodorenko[/TD][TD]Richards[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Barron[/TD][TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] LD[/TD][TD] RD[/TD][TD] G[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Lindgren [/TD][TD] Trouba[/TD][TD] Shesty[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Smith[/TD][TD]Fox [/TD][TD] Huska[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Miller [/TD][TD]Nils [/TD][TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Hajek[/TD][TD] Raddysh[/TD][TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Rauenanen[/TD][TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]

  • Right Wing-> If you look at the above, what it tells you is that moving Buch now is not a great idea, but you have options and upside in the players that can replace him or his minutes. Can all three younger guys on the RW take a step? I think playing Kakko with Zibanejad will lead to some magic. Gauthier I'm not sure of 100%, but I think VK could slot in should he not stay in Russia. VK across from Bread or Laf is also going to create some good offense. You can't play them to protect leads.
  • Centers-> Chytil can be a really high impact two way center in the third hole. Was glad to see him get some PK reps. Hope he's working on getting stronger, and winning faceoffs. Howden, I would prefer him on the 4th line LW as a guy who can take faceoffs and kill penalties. I want him playing a hard north south game, and get some coverage in the middle from a more experienced checker. That 4th Line RW slot, that can be the call-up/reward/punishment slot. Howden & the 4th line center need to be a duo, one that can work with a rotation of wingers. For the sake of this exercise let's say we all like Eich.
  • Left wing-> I say keep all three on the left side, and double shift Laf and Bread to juice up the offense. You have PP time too. Laf will take Strome's PP time, and make it deadly. You're good on LW. More than good.
  • LD-> Miller slots into the top 6 and is an everyday player. Gets minutes with Trouba, and third pair on occasion. Smith is there because he's here as of this day, and has more NHL games. I think you sign a UFA to a 2 year deal, a Seattle fall-back guy like Beulieu, and trade for a guy like Nutivarra. A good value contract for a player that can give you a solid 15-18 minutes a night, block shots, and move the puck. He can PK. You can also trade some of the assets that are here.
  • RD-> Nils isn't signed, but if he comes over, and is ready. Well he can take those DeAngelo minutes. The Rangers can also sign a veteran, like Schenn, Yanick Weber, or Ruuta.
  • G-> I think you need a tandem or platoon next year. I would move Geo in the right deal, but the Rangers aren't backfilling with anyone internally. If anything you need to add a goalie for Vegas. Berube might work.
Not saying this gets it done, and you would want Eichel to say he only wants to play for NYR, but say the Ranger swing a deal for him. Sign one of Grant, Richardson, or Thompson. Maybe Simmonds signs for a year to play on the 4th line. A really good trade would be get Carter Rowney out of Anaheim, just take on the salary you have cap space.

So the Rangers Can Trade DeAngelo, Strome, Lemeuix, Anderson, Georgiev, prospects and picks, including a 2020 1st to BUF for Eichel, and not be ravaged. 4 Young NHL pieces, Top 6, and Top 4 players in Strome and DeAngelo, NHLer Brenden Lemeuix. I'm not suggesting you load up and pay 5-8 pieces for Eich, but 5 NHL bodies and BUF gets two players whose point totals exceeds Jack's?

Not saying you pay such a high price with added prospects and picks, but if a 3rd team got involved, or if some of the players got moved for additional picks in 2020.

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]LW[/TD][TD]C[/TD][TD]RW[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Bread[/TD][TD]Eich[/TD][TD]Buch[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Kreider[/TD][TD]Zibs[/TD][TD]Kakko[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Lafreniere[/TD][TD]Chytil[/TD][TD]Kravstov/Gauthier[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Howden[/TD][TD]Grant[/TD][TD]Rowney[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Digi[/TD][TD]Khodorenko[/TD][TD]Richards[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Barron[/TD][TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]LD [/TD][TD]RD [/TD][TD] G[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Miller[/TD][TD]Trouba[/TD][TD]Shesty[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Lindgren[/TD][TD]Fox[/TD][TD]Geo[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Nutivaara[/TD][TD]Nils[/TD][TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Beaulieu[/TD][TD]Schenn [/TD][TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]

That looks like a team that's on the verge of contending. If Miller and Nils live up to and exceed their potential as rookies... which is a stretch... but the Rangers just showed that they can ice two rookie defensemen just last year, that horizon out the window's looking mighty fine.

If Chytil takes a step, and Kakko takes a step. You are knocking on the door.
Click to expand...

I’m Curious. What happens if this roster had to play a 7 game Playoff series against a club that plays A heavy game?
 
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Rangers defense needs to imorove more than anything. Hopefully Jack Martin can help with that, but how much will his input improve what we already have? That’s the big question. Trouba, Fox, and Lindgren are all really good, but what after that? Can ADA stay with Nils in the pool? How good will Miller be? The left side of our defense needs help. Hopefully JM’s new system will help us out, but you have to look at the players. Our offense is fine and will score, but our defense has been by far the biggest issue all around. If we shore up on defense I think we can be really competitive. Rangers have to be smart, but you can’t ignore big opportunities.
 
MysticLeviathan said:
Rangers defense needs to imorove more than anything. Hopefully Jack Martin can help with that, but how much will his input improve what we already have? That’s the big question. Trouba, Fox, and Lindgren are all really good, but what after that? Can ADA stay with Nils in the pool? How good will Miller be? The left side of our defense needs help. Hopefully JM’s new system will help us out, but you have to look at the players. Our offense is fine and will score, but our defense has been by far the biggest issue all around. If we shore up on defense I think we can be really competitive. Rangers have to be smart, but you can’t ignore big opportunities.
Click to expand...

Is Jack Martin, Jacques Martin's American brother?
 
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Lion Hound said:
I’m Curious. What happens if this roster had to play a 7 game Playoff series against a club that plays A heavy game?
Click to expand...

Lots of big boys in that line-up. Swap em in and out. Forbort is another guy, similar to Beaulieu. Nathan is no softy, I think he can bring the edge out of Trouba. Miller's a big boy. Grant. Rowney (he's an analytics darling!- impact metrics, not shot attempts). Julien's a big boy, having a couple of alpha dogs out of Quebec like Alexis and Nathan should get him to come out of his shell a bit.

Kakko's a big boy, Chytil, Kreider, Zibanejad, Buchnevich. The only forwards under 6'2" are Lafreniere and Bread.

Lindgren plays tough.

To answer your question, you swap out the smaller d for the bigger bodies.
 
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I think the lack of defensive competence generally among the forwards leads to the impression that the defensemen are worse at defense than they actually are.

Also believe past experience with Staal, Girardi spending too much time in their own zone having to be basically stationary while blocking shots, protecting their net, chipping it out for an easy repossession and re-entry for the other team leads to a false impression that the Rangers should be modeling their game towards protecting against that situation.

Sure they are going to always get pinned in there zone here and there yet preparing for that to happen often is preparing for that to happen often, rather than preparing for how they could instead break that cycle and leave their zone with puck possession.
 
Last edited:
Avery16 said:
Didnt we trade for Trouba? Didnt his wife really want to move here? Wasn't one of his best friends playing here?
Click to expand...

The same old, same old. Instead of waiting for TDA to develop after we traded for him, we made a FA level deal. That’s one we’ll regret in the future. But hey, all contending teams have that one(or more) contracts they regret. I’m resigned to him being here. It will cost us one way or the other. Oh well.
 
Lion Hound said:
I’m Curious. What happens if this roster had to play a 7 game Playoff series against a club that plays A heavy game?
Click to expand...
I mean it’s not ideal, but you can’t over pay just to get more heavy. Waste a spot on Martin to do Tanner Glass stuff?

where are the alternatives?
 
Brooklyn Rangers Fan said:
A) We don't know what the offers were.

B) Kreider's deal is actually pretty good! $6.5MM for a player of his caliber is under-market, and the deal is structured to be eminently tradable over the second half, if need be.

C) History has shown (as @Edge has pointed out repeatedly), front offices are a lot less worried about managing the cap than fans. Competent FOs always have a way out – witness the Staal deal just a few days ago
Click to expand...

Yeah, since the cap came into being it's turned practically all of us into financial planners.
 
Justin Richards is a center and a face-off guy. Two time NCAA champion and voted top defensive forward in his conference two years in a row. Three of the other 5 guys who have won that award are in the NHL--Sean Kuraly is one. No one other than Richards has won the award twice.

He's not a right wing and going forward he doesn't seem like a guy you would want to move to the wing. Basically what I think the Rangers are looking for from him would be something akin to Dominic Moore.
 
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Off Sides said:
I'll reply to myself as I don't think I wrote that fairly to @Brooklyn Rangers Fan, I wrote it quickly and I think you are a very good poster.

It's frustrating to me. Partially because I was not for the Kreider extension in the first place. In fact was posting about him being traded while he'd have more value with two years left and I received much flake for such an opinion.

Partially also annoying in hindsight when I see ideas posted around moving on from Zbad because he does not fit the timeline (which I kind of agree with) when that was the argument I was making regarding not staying with Kreider.

Extra annoying now in hindsight when they will likely draft #1OA and that is a LW.

Even more annoying when an argument is being made they can not keep three RDs because of cap when they will be basically keeping three LWs at the cap hit they have or will have.

Anyway, sorry for the impulsive response initially.
Click to expand...
Disagree with a one or two specific points in here, but not worth going into detail – I'm mostly just appreciative for the thoughtful response. Much appreciated – we good.
:cheers:
 
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eco's bones said:
Justin Richards is a center and a face-off guy. Two time NCAA champion and voted top defensive forward in his conference two years in a row. Three of the other 5 guys who have won that award are in the NHL--Sean Kuraly is one. No one other than Richards has won the award twice.

He's not a right wing and going forward he doesn't seem like a guy you would want to move to the wing. Basically what I think the Rangers are looking for from him would be something akin to Dominic Moore.
Click to expand...
I’m mean I’d sign up for a Moore/Kuraly for sure.
 
This year’s dead money will be about $13mm. Next year’s dead money is about $4mm. The year after that it’s about $2.5mm, then we have no more dead money to worry about, assuming no more buyouts or retained salary.
 
Savant said:
I’m mean I’d sign up for a Moore/Kuraly for sure.
Click to expand...

I just saw the list above that put him at right wing and had Khodorenko at center. I think between the two Khodorenko is way more likely to be a wing than Richards. I do have hopes for those two. Often enough free agent signings like this run under the radar.

Pionk went to Minn-Duluth like Richards and they have a top notch pro-like college program there and their coach Scott Sandelin is outstanding. They are very much a defensively disciplined roll all your lines team so stat wise their players don't always pop out like they would playing for other programs. They are tight checking and hard forechecking. They absolutely were buzzing all over Cale Makar the last time there was an NCAA championship game. I don't think he completed half his passes. He had no room to move. Pionk is a good player too---he's just not a first pairing D like the Rangers used him for so long. A top 4 D in Winnipeg with over 40 points. Not the matchup guy and on the 2nd penalty kill unit not the first. That fits him a whole lot better than how the Rangers used him.
 
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