Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXI - All along the Watch Tower

[Raspewtin]

i'm usually not this person but this board will hate Julien just as much as Quinn very quickly lol

you think Quinn is bad with giving grinders ice time........Julien is among the worst in the league with that

though I think Julien is a significantly better 5 v 5 coach than Quinn. I just don't think this board will value that much if Laf is getting 10 mins a game.

 

[duhmetreE]

Feel like I keep reading that our PP is virtually unchanged from last year, just unlucky so far or not 'executing'.

That's almost true except that Tony DeAngelo is gone and isn't coming back. I love Fox but I'm not sold on him as PP1 QB at this point. And certainly, he's no Tony in that regard. Coaches, management need to realize this (if they haven't). Tony was the straw that stirred the drink last year. They need to stop assuming that you can just swap Fox in and nothing else (personnel, strategy, etc.) won't have to change as well.

ADA excelled when the play 'broke down'. He was great at getting pucks through as well.

The problem has been that the right side of the ice is barely if ever used. It is not a threat. It's like a baseball team putting a shift on a hitter. They just all cheat towards Panarin and Zibs. We need a good LHS on the right wall. IMO Miller is that shot. I honestly don't know if Laf can shoot off the one-time like that, normally saw him QBing the PP. I know Buch has a decent shot but he rarely uses it and is very bad at finishing.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

They've been ass lately.

But a lot of that has been Price.

Price once again having an abysmal season but players and media still talk about him as the best goalie in the league - a title he only actually deserved one time in his whole career.

He hasn't been good since the 2016-17 season.

 

[HonestGabe]

I'm definitely not a David Quinn fan, but he shouldn't be canned unless you are confident you can replace him with someone significantly better.

I'm talking Gallant, Cooper, Laviolette, etc.

Julien is not on that tier. He's a great 5v5 coach but the same pains we have with Quinn will be on display with Julien. He won't get more out of our top players and we will still see young guys playing 10-13 minutes a night instead of 15-18.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Insider Trading: Teams starting to look at a trio of Detroit Red Wings as trade targets - TSN.ca

LeBrun: In the meantime, there’s been a lot of white noise around the Calgary Flames because of their recent slump and whether or not general manager Brad Treliving was up to something. Of course, we know about the Sam Bennett situation, but certainly from talking to people around the league it seems actually pretty quiet on the Flames’ front. Which is not to say Treliving isn’t talking to a lot of teams. He’s actually notorious among his peers for checking in on every single team in the league every 10 days or so

no wonder no one trades with this guy. He’s the asshole in every fantasy league who teases but never trades

 

[duhmetreE]

Price once again having an abysmal season but players and media still talk about him as the best goalie in the league - a title he only actually deserved one time in his whole career.

He hasn't been good since the 2016-17 season he got ridiculously overpaid.

Fixed.

Rule #4125 of modern NHL. NEVER pay your goalie that much (over 10-12% of cap), well into their mid-late 30's. It's not going to end well for the team.

Same goes for Shesty. I wouldn't mind paying a little extra and having him for 6-7 years. Then have a replacement ready to go when he's a UFA.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Another vote for a pass on Julien.

He's the perfect Dead Puck Era coach that also had success in the early 2010's because the game played heavier and bigger during that time as opposed to today. In today's game you need good forecheckers, skaters, and skill on all 4 lines to win. It's why a guy that can forecheck well and has a little skill, but not enough to be consistently in the top 6 like Colin Blackwell has a job in today's NHL. Blackwell wouldn't have a job 10 years ago.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Feel like I keep reading that our PP is virtually unchanged from last year, just unlucky so far or not 'executing'.

That's almost true except that Tony DeAngelo is gone and isn't coming back. I love Fox but I'm not sold on him as PP1 QB at this point. And certainly, he's no Tony in that regard. Coaches, management need to realize this (if they haven't). Tony was the straw that stirred the drink last year. They need to stop assuming that you can just swap Fox in and nothing else (personnel, strategy, etc.) won't have to change as well.

Tony was ass since Panarin and Zibanejad stopped scoring before the bubble. He was totally riding their coat tails all last year, our pp problem is that Zibanejad can't hit the net, has 0 to do with the guy at the top of the pp, ill go one step further and say that Fox is way better at keeping the puck in the offensive zone and less likely to cough up an odd man rush on the pp.

 

[duhmetreE]

Tony was ass since Panarin and Zibanejad stopped scoring before the bubble. He was totally riding their coat tails all last year, our pp problem is that Zibanejad can't hit the net, has 0 to do with the guy at the top of the pp, ill go one step further and say that Fox is way better at keeping the puck in the offensive zone and less likely to cough up an odd man rush on the pp.

Before the bubble? Everyone was ass in the bubble and to start this year. If you're claiming ADA was not good and only benefited by Panarin/Zibs, you're attempting to revise last season.

ADA was a dynamic game changer and played a huge part of the offense last season.

 

[Tob]

How could you, its been 16 games for Lafrieniere, what the heck is he waiting for lol. Fox hasn't hit a softmore slump like most do, Kakko looks worlds better, Miller has been impressive, Chytil way better, Lindgren went from being an AHL player to a top 4 dman, Buchnevich has become a real hockey player. I can understand an argument for other things but developing complete hockey players isn't a something thats an issue for this staff. If you want an explanation for Lafrieniere vs Stutzle point totals, one went to world juniors the other didn't, it was a mistake to have him sitting for 10 months.

I'm not crediting David Quinn with Adam Fox the second coming of Brian Leetch for not having a sophomore slump. Miller has looked great since day 1 as did Fox. They came to us as complete players. It's great that they're doing well and good on Quinn for giving them tons of minutes but I am looking for improvements especially with the forwards. We're set on defense. It also took Martin to get this defense in order after 4 terrible years with Ruff. Quinn admitted to the fact that it was a fire drill his first 2 years prior to Martin. I'll give him partial credit for the progress of Lindgren, Fox, Miller, etc.

Going onto his 3rd year, none of our forwards has broken out. Chytil and Kakko look great and I'm excited but at the end of the day, talent this good and in a rebuild, we need 40+ point production at some point. So far none of our forwards have cracked 30 points in a full 82 game season. Flashes of talent is not enough. These two players are supposed to be our future. Ideally I'd like one of our Gauthier, Lemieux, Howden, Andersson 2nd tier forwards to have cemented a role as a middle 6 player putting up 30+ points but so far, nothing. In fact Lemmy and Howden in their 3rd year are on pace to finish the same or worse than both of their prior years. Static. zero growth. Their on ice attributes are identical as well. Kakko was frustrated at the end of last year and stopped trying to be creative under Quinn's "don't do this, don't do that" coaching. Andersson and Kravstov were rubbed the wrong way in their short stint under Quinn. Let's face it, Chytil improving is like 50% the fact that he's grown into a man's body. Quinn gets only partial credit for that. If he puts up say 60 point pace by the end of the season, I'll give Quinn full credit but flashes of talent isn't enough.

I'm not looking for the hockey version of Disney's on ice spectacle: Genghis Khan, the Greatest Conquest of Mankind's History on skates but so far out of the forwards that have had a chance to take a step in our rebuild under Quinn: Lemieux, Howden, Gauthier, Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil, Andersson, Kravstov, so far we've peaked with "wow, our 2nd overall pick has legs and he's really using 'em!"

 

[Avery16]

Tony was ass since Panarin and Zibanejad stopped scoring before the bubble. He was totally riding their coat tails all last year, our pp problem is that Zibanejad can't hit the net, has 0 to do with the guy at the top of the pp, ill go one step further and say that Fox is way better at keeping the puck in the offensive zone and less likely to cough up an odd man rush on the pp.

Everyone was ass in the play-in round. Everyone.

 

[True Blue]

I'm not crediting David Quinn with Adam Fox the second coming of Brian Leetch for not having a sophomore slump. Miller has looked great since day 1 as did Fox. They came to us as complete players.

Absolutely. I agree. They developed themselves.

 

[pld459666]

Where is this coming from?

Do we really think the growth plan for the most recent 1OA is solely left for the coach to decide?

I'm not buying that myself

 

[True Blue]

Or teach centers to win a draw?

Were it that easy, wouldn't every single center in history be great on draws?

 

[True Blue]

I am over the "he has to earn pp time". Lafreniere can't be that good if he can't even earn first PP time OR the coach is an idiot.

So either Lafreniere sucks or Quinn is an idiot for not playing him there? Makes perfect, logical sense.

 

[True Blue]

Do we really think the growth plan for the most recent 1OA is solely left for the coach to decide?

I'm not buying that myself

Nope. Only this one as Quinn is the Rasputin who secretly runs the franchise and hates all prospects outside of USA college and is clearly trying to ruin Lafreniere.

The ultimate irony was that if Lafreniere had 10 points right now, the same people proclaiming him to be ruined would be singing the praises of all of the development he received in the Q.

 

[Tob]

Nope. Only this one as Quinn is the Rasputin who secretly runs the franchise and hates all prospects outside of USA college and is clearly trying to ruin Lafreniere.

Do you have another way of communicating aside from sarcastic snarky responses?

 

[RGY]

Before the bubble? Everyone was ass in the bubble and to start this year. If you're claiming ADA was not good and only benefited by Panarin/Zibs, you're attempting to revise last season.

ADA was a dynamic game changer and played a huge part of the offense last season.

Whats amazing is the hypocrisy in that poster’s comments regarding ADA. That same poster has defended Ryan Strome endlessly, who has without a doubt road the coattails of Panarin’s success the past year +, but I guess that argument applies to certain players. And I would take it a step further in that even with Panarin being over a PPG player this year, Strome has still managed to be a black hole. There is a difference in true offensive talent from one player to the next. DeAngelo had the offensive ability with his skating ability, passing, and instincts on that side of the puck. He absolutely was lacking defensively, but when it comes to the PP there was a clear success there. And as much as some want to blatantly ignore it because of their personal hate for the guy, the PP has been significantly worse without DeAngelo than with him.

 

[True Blue]

MTL is bringing Alex Burrows in as the new Asst. Coach

Wonder who he will bite first

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Frankly, I just want the Rangers to sign or trade for a former Kitchener player, so we don't have to photoshop the jersey.

 

[True Blue]

Do you have another way of communicating aside from sarcastic snarky responses?

Sure, to well thought out thoughts. Not to ones that presume that prospects simply waking up and developing themselves is completely rational

 

[bl02]

So either Lafreniere sucks or Quinn is an idiot for not playing him there? Makes perfect, logical sense.

Yes. If Quinn is correct than Lafreniere isn’t as good as we thought. If he is incorrect (which I hope and think is true) than he is an idiot not to give the kid a chance. Not sure what is so hard to understand. Even if he isn’t good enough right now give the kid a chance. What are we trying to accomplish here

 

[True Blue]

Yes. If Quinn is correct than Lafreniere isn’t as good as we thought. If he isn’t correct (which I hope and think is correct) than he is an idiot not to give the kid a chance.

There is no chance of it being in the middle, huh?

It's both you know. Lafreniere completely sucks and the coach is an utter idiot for not wanting to do what you want him to.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Absolutely. I agree. They developed themselves.

Yet we kill Jeff Gorton for drating/trading all these players who have already been developed.

 

[DutchShamrock]

i'm usually not this person but this board will hate Julien just as much as Quinn very quickly lol

you think Quinn is bad with giving grinders ice time........Julien is among the worst in the league with that

though I think Julien is a significantly better 5 v 5 coach than Quinn. I just don't think this board will value that much if Laf is getting 10 mins a game.

Was he coaching the Bruins during the Seguin years?