Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXX: MOAR sandpaper, guts & glory?

[Leetch3]

The fact that there is no offensive plan when Mika isn’t scoring is the problem. And yes that is coaching.

obviously its coaching that the whole team is snakebit...obviously the problem is that we don't have a coach telling guys that they should consider scoring more

 

[DanielBrassard]

The defensive structure has made progress under Martin for sure but I think it's exposed that they don't know how to actually play offense without the game being a firewagon.

For all the talk about how much improvement there's been defensively, they are still 25th in CA/60 and 23rd in xGA/60.

 

[Leetch3]

Let me ask you this way: AT THIS POINT should the Quinn do nothing and continue to roll with the flow continuing to develop youngsters and having injuries and Covid explanation to stay the course elsewhere?

you mean continuing to develop youngsters like the improvements we've seen from kakko? yeah he should keep doing that.

 

[Mikos87]

View attachment 397294

I keep trying but it ain't working fellas!!!!

Have you tried the power of rational thinking?

 

[Savant]

obviously its coaching that the whole team is snakebit...obviously the problem is that we don't have a coach telling guys that they should consider scoring more

No. They are snake bit because there is neither structure nor offensive identity. The plan is give it To Mika or Panarin and watch what happens.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Have you tried the power of rational thinking?

does that help us rationalize why we score less than soccer teams?

 

[JayAB81]

Hey don’t quote me as I’m far from a cap expert compared to some other posters here. I was just simply looking at Kreider’s contract, considering what it would have been with a flat cap projections and then discounting it further for several other factors.

I won't, I also don't know much about the NHL Salary Cap, like I said, I know the NFL Salary Cap, & CBA, but I've been looking up the NHL CBA & Salary Cap on CapFriendly.com.

 

[JayAB81]

I'm so happy that I get to see Brendan Smith play every game for the next 4-6 weeks. And on the right side too, oh joy. Maybe if we're super lucky, we'll finally get to see the Johnson-Smith pair we've all dreamed about. What a time to be alive.

Did I miss something, is K'Andre out longer? God I don't want to see Johnson-Smith pair, rather have them play Bitetto-Hajek, both are much better this season. And if K'Andre is out longer, why not call up Tarmo Reunanen? Let's see what he can do at the NHL level, since Yegor Rykov is on loan, so it'd be Tarmo, Crawley, Raddysh, or Robertson(Not sure how that works with him in the juniors). Slim pickings for sure.

 

[True Blue]

the worst offenders of the "system" we're trying to pull off are exclusively the veterans.

I am not even close to debating this. But if we are talking about strictly defense, then that is what I am staying with

 

[Trxjw]

The eject button?

I am kidding, yet I think Quinn should probably start playing those who are leaving it all out there the best they can. If that means Blackwell, DGP, Rooney, etc get more ice time than the more expensive vets, that is sort of where I think he should go with it.

Last night end of game when Rooney would take the face-off then go off so Strome could come on, first couple times Quinn did that Strome did nothing good, so after he just left Rooney out there. I think that is sort of an example of what Quinn needs to do with Kreider, Zbad too.

I expect that if things continue this way he will take more drastic measures with certain guys.

 

[kovazub94]

Yeah, well said. There is no fear of consequence for a certain tier of player. All the benching and health bombs are used exclusively on the lower end guys. Maybe it's a coincidence that the upper tier is playing some pretty ineffective hockey, maybe not. Maybe they should find out.

@nyr2k2 is absolutely right in general and I have absolutely no issues with a different length of a leash when it comes to players in different tiers as you put it. Just saying that in one particular case Quinn should be at the end of one such long(er) leash.

 

[kovazub94]

I'm so happy that I get to see Brendan Smith play every game for the next 4-6 weeks. And on the right side too, oh joy. Maybe if we're super lucky, we'll finally get to see the Johnson-Smith pair we've all dreamed about. What a time to be alive.

Smith has always been a designated 6-7 D. What did you expect was going to happen when the Rangers get 3 injured defensemen?

 

[jay from jersey]

You're way overestimating what Buchnevich and Chytil will get on their next contracts. The Rangers also will not trade Deangelo with half his cap hit retained unless they get a useful asset in return. They'll just buy him out this summer if not.

Lindgren is not getting 5 mill either

 

[kovazub94]

you mean continuing to develop youngsters like the improvements we've seen from kakko? yeah he should keep doing that.

That’s a given. Outside of that? I was perfectly content with team’s effort when they played Caps, Pens or Bruins even when they didn’t score or otherwise lost these games. Could even pass on the lack of effort against Buffalo earlier in the season. Last night with all the circumstances around not getting wins previously, playing against lower tier team that had been on a Covid break? Now I want to see some reaction to that effort.

 

[Trxjw]

At some point he needs to start thinking about the impact (of not acting) on other players, not only Kreider. I mean we’re talking about not even scratching, but having absolutely any response to subpar play of ANY kind. And is it about Kreider and the team per se, or being afraid of doing something to player whom the MANAGEMENT just signed to a long and expensive contract?

Personally I have a hard time seeing Quinn avoiding benching Kreider just because the front office re-signed him to a big contract. Again, this is a coach that tends to give runway to guys who play the game the way he likes to see them play. So for all we know he's not at all as frustrated with Kreider as the fans are.

 

[Fitzy]

Lindgren is not getting 5 mill either

If they play the contracts right there will be a lot of open cap space this off-season.

It’s just a matter of whether bridge contracts are a good idea in order to be able to spend more now, or if we should look into long term extensions for Chytil, Shesty and Lindgren to keep the long term cost down.

 

[jay from jersey]

If they play the contracts right there will be a lot of open cap space this off-season.

It’s just a matter of whether bridge contracts are a good idea in order to be able to spend more now, or if we should look into long term extensions for Chytil, Shesty and Lindgren to keep the long term cost down.

I put lindgren at 3.5 maybe 4 but that’s even pushing it. And that’s on a long term deal

 

[EpicDing]

If they play the contracts right there will be a lot of open cap space this off-season.

It’s just a matter of whether bridge contracts are a good idea in order to be able to spend more now, or if we should look into long term extensions for Chytil, Shesty and Lindgren to keep the long term cost down.

I'm curious who would be a good comp for Lindgren contract wise. I honestly have no idea what to value him AAV wise, but would love to lock him up for 4 or 5 years.

 

[Mikos87]

does that help us rationalize why we score less than soccer teams?

Yes, actually yes. I had to piece a couple of sources together- stack a few things to really get a feel for where they are at versus what the winning teams are across different measurables, but yeah they will struggle to score three given the current rate. All fixable things, breakouts, zone entries, exits, line changes, match-ups and ice-time, situational adjustments. It's how you change, when you change, who you put out etc. You need the experience. You need guys that know these things inside out, and the NHL is getting to a point where that knowledge base and skill is not widely available. In other words.... these coaches are going to keep getting paid.

The PK is still really bad. There are some quantifiable improvements there that will really help the winning cause, some of these are the inexperienced players being schooled at the dot, it starts there. Since you're dealing with divisional battles where there are a lot of experienced centermen, this is likely to continue. Both goalies should be getting agitated at the PK.

It's funny the guys who've been around since in the 90s used to say that there was a point where you're going to coach all the fun out of the game. We've been here for a while, where inches and seconds can be the difference between winning and losing. I feel that with the proliferation of quality insights with reliable data makes measurement and predictability more reliable.

Last game aside, here's one for the eye test: The Rangers are one of the better 5v5 defensive teams in the NHL. A couple of early season softies are keeping Shesty and Georgie from getting some of that recognition right now. So what we're seeing and saying about tight defense is true. The issue is, you aren't doing that after you get a lead.

 

[OrangePMD]

Smith has always been a designated 6-7 D. What did you expect was going to happen when the Rangers get 3 injured defensemen?

What did I expect, during the pre-season ? I expected Smith to play some games, sure. Maybe half of them. I certainly didn't expect a potential 15 game stretch of him playing top-4 minutes.

 

[DutchShamrock]

@nyr2k2 is absolutely right in general and I have absolutely no issues with a different length of a leash when it comes to players in different tiers as you put it. Just saying that in one particular case Quinn should be at the end of one such long(er) leash.

I'm good with different approaches for different players too. But he doesn't seem to have any approach with certain guys. At the very least, the approach to the top guys simply isn't working this season. When they are all doing this bad, why would the rationale be that they all happen to have some mitigating circumstances?

People can put all their faith in the staff or question every move. Without first hand knowledge it's all a guess. I recognize that we aren't arguing, just clarifying our positions.

 

[Fitzy]

I'm curious who would be a good comp for Lindgren contract wise. I honestly have no idea what to value him AAV wise, but would love to lock him up for 4 or 5 years.

I believe that since Lindgren and Fox both just turned 23, 3 years is the longest 'bridge' we could give Lindgren without letting him go to UFA.

3 x 2.6 million or
5 x 3.75 million

Would be my estimates for Lindgren. I'm actually inclined to take the bridge on a player who plays a more physically taxing style, whereas when Fox comes up I'd prefer the long term deal.

 

[Calad]

Zibanejad at 50% this trade deadline would garner a lot of interest. FO needs to decide what the long term plan is with him and if they aren't going to extend they should check in around the league.

Zibanejad @ 50% to:

Vegas for 1st, Krebs+
Colorado for 1st, Newhook+

I'm sure there are other teams that can put together similar packages but these two stand out in my mind as teams close to a cup with assets we would covet.

 

[Crease]

I'm curious who would be a good comp for Lindgren contract wise. I honestly have no idea what to value him AAV wise, but would love to lock him up for 4 or 5 years.

Lindgren is a rock steady 3/4 guy playing with one of the best defensemen in the league. Reminds me a bit of Girardi before his body gave out.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Yes, actually yes. I had to piece a couple of sources together- stack a few things to really get a feel for where they are at versus what the winning teams are across different measurables, but yeah they will struggle to score three given the current rate. All fixable things, breakouts, zone entries, exits, line changes, match-ups and ice-time, situational adjustments. It's how you change, when you change, who you put out etc. You need the experience. You need guys that know these things inside out, and the NHL is getting to a point where that knowledge base and skill is not widely available. In other words.... these coaches are going to keep getting paid.

The PK is still really bad. There are some quantifiable improvements there that will really help the winning cause, some of these are the inexperienced players being schooled at the dot, it starts there. Since you're dealing with divisional battles where there are a lot of experienced centermen, this is likely to continue. Both goalies should be getting agitated at the PK.

It's funny the guys who've been around since in the 90s used to say that there was a point where you're going to coach all the fun out of the game. We've been here for a while, where inches and seconds can be the difference between winning and losing. I feel that with the proliferation of quality insights with reliable data makes measurement and predictability more reliable.

Last game aside, here's one for the eye test: The Rangers are one of the better 5v5 defensive teams in the NHL. A couple of early season softies are keeping Shesty and Georgie from getting some of that recognition right now. So what we're seeing and saying about tight defense is true. The issue is, you aren't doing that after you get a lead.

Ah, the image of the book - it's actually a joke.